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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Entropics

Established Member

Country: Colombia

Player:Saka
I don't understand the obsession with points. I'll take top 4 with 60 points over 5th with 75 points. Points vary upon on how the entire league does. Each season is different.

Think it's an attempt to escape from approving or rejecting the process based on personal opinion, but also because saying top 4 or bust doesn't feel like fair enough, what if we end up 7th but you fell in love with the football until Jesus got injured?

It's indeed pointless, no set of concrete rules will override your personal opinion. If you like what you saw you'll end up worming your way out of your own constraints.
 

Slug457

Active Member
or even 5th place finishes
The manager, considering he called it a success for one. As for being happy with 8th speak to any English Arsenal fan, most don't and didn't give a **** as we dropped out of Europe for the first time in decades, and still complain far more about the season we finished 2nd :lol:

It was a very common claim after the FA cup win/last season that to push for top 4/get top 4 a was a must and if Arteta fails he should go, only for the goalposts to shift after finishing 8th then bottling 4th horribly.
 

Slug457

Active Member
So you can't name anyone, got it.
I named the manager calling 5th a success, you think fans didn't? :lol:

Guys more experienced with the forum will bring up specific names for you, i'm like you and didn't start posting here until fairly recently after lurking for a period. Perhaps phrasing it like I did implying all Arteta fans considered it do or die was unreasonable, but it was not a uncommon view.
 

Slug457

Active Member
You were talking about fans, so let's talk about fans. I just want you or anyone to name anyone who is happy with a 5th place finish.
Some were happy with 5th last season as it was a big improvement on the previous season. I was wrong to say fans were happy with 8th, but at the very least they were content with it. We've took a step forward this season in that nobody will be happy with 5th now. Does not mean if we do finish 5th excuses will not be made, just like in the 8th season.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
You were talking about fans, so let's talk about fans. I just want you or anyone to name anyone who is happy with a 5th place finish.

I'd agree that not many if any were happy with us finishing 5th considering the top 4 battle we engaged in.

I think the more appropriate term is that quite a number of people were ok with us getting 5th. I remember in one of the Arsecasts, either Andrew or Gunnerblog mentioned something like if we'd have been offered 5th after our first three defeats we'd have taken it and been happy. Of course they went on to say that it still feels disappointing getting 5th after contesting top 4, but 5th was still "good".

I think that reflected how a lot of fans felt (outside of AM :lol:) , and 5th was still acceptable all things considered but most fans expected better for the next season.
 

Melquiades

Active Member
Think it's an attempt to escape from approving or rejecting the process based on personal opinion, but also because saying top 4 or bust doesn't feel like fair enough, what if we end up 7th but you fell in love with the football until Jesus got injured?

It's indeed pointless, no set of concrete rules will override your personal opinion. If you like what you saw you'll end up worming your way out of your own constraints.

Yeah, I think - all things being equal and if the team stays relatively healthy - 4th should be the reasonable goal.

But if our best 11 plays terrific football when healthy and then we get absolutely wrecked by injuries and finish 5th, I'm not going to have the knives out. Sometimes **** happens and what was a reasonable expectation in one circumstance is no longer reasonable when circumstances change.

If we finish 5th and win the EL or FA Cup I'd also have a tough time being disappointed with that season. Any season with a trophy is a success.

Anything better than 4th would be gravy as it would mean we outperformed one of City/Liverpool/Chelsea.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
I'd agree that not many if any were happy with us finishing 5th considering the top 4 battle we engaged in.

I think the more appropriate term is that quite a number of people were ok with us getting 5th. I remember in one of the Arsecasts, either Andrew or Gunnerblog mentioned something like if we'd have been offered 5th after our first three defeats we'd have taken it and been happy. Of course they went on to say that it still feels disappointing getting 5th after contesting top 4, but 5th was still "good".

I think that reflected how a lot of fans felt (outside of AM :lol:) , and 5th was still acceptable all things considered but most fans expected better for the next season.

I think its quite a big difference between being happy and being ok with something, don't you? Like I'm ok with driving a Renault but I'd be happy with an Audi TT, and over-the-top delighted with a Bugatti Chiron. All different statements.

Bingo. Was do or die last season, was do or die the season before. Same old excuses were trotted out to justify failure. Will be the same this season if we do fail. The difference is we've atleast taken a little step forward in that the minimum expectation should be 4th rather than having zero expectations/being happy with 8th/5th is a success and what have you.

The language being used that I challenged was that fans deemed 5th a success and were happy with it, which to me is ludicrous and not what I experienced at all from any fans last season or this season.
 

Melquiades

Active Member
I'd agree that not many if any were happy with us finishing 5th considering the top 4 battle we engaged in.

I think the more appropriate term is that quite a number of people were ok with us getting 5th. I remember in one of the Arsecasts, either Andrew or Gunnerblog mentioned something like if we'd have been offered 5th after our first three defeats we'd have taken it and been happy. Of course they went on to say that it still feels disappointing getting 5th after contesting top 4, but 5th was still "good".

I think that reflected how a lot of fans felt (outside of AM :lol:) , and 5th was still acceptable all things considered but most fans expected better for the next season.

Yeah, it was a weird year that way.

If you'd asked me during the summer of 2021 if I'd have been happy with moving from 8th up to 5th and getting back into Europe with the youngest team in the PL ... absolutely. Hell yes.

Even more so after the way the season started.

But after we'd put ourselves in such a good position to finish 4th, the way the season ended was obviously terribly disappointing. We had to beat ****ing Newcastle to get into the Champions League and lost.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
I think its quite a big difference between being happy and being ok with something, don't you? Like I'm ok with driving a Renault but I'd be happy with an Audi TT, and over-the-top delighted with a Bugatti Chiron. All different statements.



The language being used that I challenged was that fans deemed 5th a success and were happy with it, which to me is ludicrous and not what I experienced at all from any fans last season or this season.

Yep I agree.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
Thing is it's not about being happy to finish 5th. It's whether or not it was an acceptable performance. No-one should be doing cartwheels unless we're 1st or at least in contention for the title. That's what the game is about. Winning.

If 4th is decent / minimum this season. 5th was okay last year. Not great but okay. The manner we lost 4th and to who still niggles a bit admittedly though. Was a bit of a bottle job.

I'll be happy with Arteta as long as he keeps improving our position year on year until we get in title challenging territory so 4th is the minimum for me this season.
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
I don't understand the obsession with points. I'll take top 4 with 60 points over 5th with 75 points. Points vary upon on how the entire league does. Each season is different.
Yeah the conversations around points can become a bit strange and are generally redundant. Placement in the table is the absolute metric measuring success relative to the competition, consistently across all time.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Bollocks to that doublespeak :lol: you can't directly compare them based on metrics such as money, time spent and season outcomes and in the next sentence say you're not comparing them. You then go on to compare the 'projects' (lead by the two men) again in the next paragraph!

Back your own posts, lad!
It’s probably just a syntax thing.

Our clubs’ projects are comparable in terms of the things I mentioned but the outcomes of both projects are miles apart hence why there’s no actual comparison. You don’t expect our project to come anywhere near theirs due to the gulf in manager ability.

But you can discuss how far off Klopp is acceptable for an Arsenal manager. Do you get it?
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
He’s not gonna lips you

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