Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[samspade]

He’s been able to totally refresh the squad so quickly amid the turmoil of the pl, very impressive. Everyone knows it’s difficult to get so many players to gel in this league, even more so since tactics are so much more sophisticated now, it’s just such a difficult league compared to a few years ago

 

[samspade]

It does take time to feel part of something and to be emotionally invested though.

Humans bond through shared experiences and familiarity over time. That's how relationships in general or football squad cohesion is built.

You don't love your wife / girlfriend or best friend the most the first day you meet them, it's something that intensifies with time.

Starting a new job ( even if it's the exact same role but in a different company) you aren't the most productive initially even with the best intentions. It's a new environment, new people, maybe slightly different leadership structure. You need time to adapt. Being excited or part of something new doesn't enhance your productivity.

Beautiful! Sounds like Arsène himself

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Beautiful! Sounds like Arsène himself

You've got me.....I am Arsène.

 

[Makingtrax]

It does take time to feel part of something and to be emotionally invested though.

Humans bond through shared experiences and familiarity over time. That's how relationships in general or football squad cohesion is built.

You don't love your wife / girlfriend or best friend the most the first day you meet them, it's something that intensifies with time.

Starting a new job ( even if it's the exact same role but in a different company) you aren't the most productive initially even with the best intentions. It's a new environment, new people, maybe slightly different leadership structure. You need time to adapt. Being excited or part of something new doesn't enhance your productivity.

They don’t have to fall in love mate. We’re talking them all being with the manager and fully engaged rather than thinking about their next move or fed up with the club. We’re talking at cross purposes.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Strange how I said ‘in the history of the Premiere League’, then a poster comes in to find an example well before the Premier League started and you’re backing him to the hilt. No doubt you’ll say I’m sly again. Never change with your bs mate.

You are trying to support a poor argument on a technicality. And saying "well before the Premier League started" makes it seems like ages between the example and the PL being named. SAF started managing United 1986 and the PL was founded 1992. If we are using his first 4-5 years as an example of being given time they almost overlap.

Instead of trying to be "right" on a technicality, why not simply accept the point made and take it as a good counter argument. Would be the sensible thing to do.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Wenger has no non negotiable stance, he supports the club and everybody employed here and always has done.

That's also my stance and I've been accused of being an Artetasexual, so if it applies to me it applies to him

 

[Makingtrax]

You are trying to support a poor argument on a technicality. And saying "well before the Premier League started" makes it seems like ages between the example and the PL being named. SAF started managing United 1986 and the PL was founded 1992. If we are using his first 4-5 years as an example of being given time they almost overlap.

Instead of trying to be "right" on a technicality, why not simply accept the point made and take it as a good counter argument. Would be the sensible thing to do.

I see what you’re doing there, changing the goal posts. Very sly. Lol.

 

[Makingtrax]

He’s been able to totally refresh the squad so quickly amid the turmoil of the pl, very impressive. Everyone knows it’s difficult to get so many players to gel in this league, even more so since tactics are so much more sophisticated now, it’s just such a difficult league compared to a few years ago

Stop, you’re killing me.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I see what you’re doing there, changing the goal posts. Very sly. Lol.

If you think this is a good retort I feel for you Traxy. Maybe @Nacho will give you a like out of RESPECT.

 

[Big Nate]

You are trying to support a poor argument on a technicality. And saying "well before the Premier League started" makes it seems like ages between the example and the PL being named. SAF started managing United 1986 and the PL was founded 1992. If we are using his first 4-5 years as an example of being given time they almost overlap.

Instead of trying to be "right" on a technicality, why not simply accept the point made and take it as a good counter argument. Would be the sensible thing to do.

No point continuing that argument tbh. But to talk about this point further, why do you think Man Utd continued to back SAF despite those finishes? I haven't looked into it but there must have been clear progress behind the scenes and I think he won a couple cups during that time too.

For Arsenal it seems the reason they backed Arteta is because the board knew that there would be bumps in the road with an inexperienced Arteta but they believed in his tactical ability (which seemed to be lauded in football circles) and could see the real change he was making to the culture behind the scenes. And of course the FA Cup and Community Shield wins.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Isn't this discussion a bit like ten Haag and Pep fighting over a comb?

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

No point continuing that argument tbh. But to talk about this point further, why do you think Man Utd continued to back SAF despite those finishes? I haven't looked into it but there must have been clear progress behind the scenes and I think he won a couple cups during that time too.

For Arsenal it seems the reason they backed Arteta is because the board knew that there would be bumps in the road with an inexperienced Arteta but they believed in his tactical ability (which seemed to be lauded in football circles) and could see the real change he was making to the culture behind the scenes. And of course the FA Cup and Community Shield wins.

SAF was supposedly very close to being sacked in 1990 when he finished 13th but an FA Cup win saved his job. This was 3 1/2 years in. Then he only finished 6th the following season but won the Cup Winners Cup.

There is parallels with Arteta too. SAF shifted some very very good players including a world class Paul McGrath because they're lifestyles, ie alcoholism, did not suit his none negotiables. Both managers had long term visions and plans for their clubs based on youth development

Fergie also became the leader of the club that no player could undermine the manager or not put a shift in. This is a big problem at big clubs, United never had it under him. I believe Arteta is creating a similar culture. Getting rid of players who undermines him is a signal to every player that they aren't bigger than the club. Man United current dressing room have bussed 2-3 managers because of them downing tools.

I think this fan banner was put up in 1990 before the FA Cup win though:

 

[DJ_Markstar]

You've got me.....I am Arsène.

After @2Smokeyy revealed he was Artekkers the other day this is most welcome news!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

No point continuing that argument tbh. But to talk about this point further, why do you think Man Utd continued to back SAF despite those finishes? I haven't looked into it but there must have been clear progress behind the scenes and I think he won a couple cups during that time too.

For Arsenal it seems the reason they backed Arteta is because the board knew that there would be bumps in the road with an inexperienced Arteta but they believed in his tactical ability (which seemed to be lauded in football circles) and could see the real change he was making to the culture behind the scenes. And of course the FA Cup and Community Shield wins.

From having followed the development at the LA Rams in the NFL, which also belongs to KSE, I assume they felt comfortable with supporting a younger coach over a transition period and while he built up the team again. Arteta came highly lauded by various people including Pep and Wenger etc.

He must have been able to clearly articulate his vision to the owners and over the last soon 3 years they must feel that they have seen enough progress to back him fully. I would assume something similar happened for SAF. There clearly have been some bumps in the road with Arteta and Edu as the main people in charge, as you note, but even a blind person can see that we are improving overall. Even if Arteta left tomorrow I feel the squad and club is in a much better place than when he took over.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Its time to let it go, what happened in the past cant be changed now, and holding grudges wont change anything. We seem to be getting better now, we have a clear plan and we are playing good football; its reason to have real hope, and its a likeable Arsenal team that give everything in every match. Its a shame Wenger never got the money that Arteta did, but that cant be changed so we can either be perpetually upset about what never happened, or enjoy the present. Lets be happy that at last we are getting big money to spend and that the money seems to be spent well, that we are playing football thats getting close to the lovely football Wenger gave us and that it if this continues we are on our way to trophies.

As Wenger said today, Arteta is instilling the Arsenal values in the team. And if its the case that Arteta doesn't fulfill the expectations that are required at Arsenal then hopefully we bring someone else in that will.
View attachment 9403

I was glad Wenger said this as I still have doubts over the personnel at the top. Let's hope all the work is rewarded with the EL trophy and a top 4 finish

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

SAF was supposedly very close to being sacked in 1990 when he finished 13th but an FA Cup win saved his job. This was 3 1/2 years in. Then he only finished 6th the following season but won the Cup Winners Cup.

There is parallels with Arteta too. SAF shifted some very very good players including a world class Paul McGrath because they're lifestyles, ie alcoholism, did not suit his none negotiables. Both managers had long term visions and plans for their clubs based on youth development

Fergie also became the leader of the club that no player could undermine the manager or not put a shift in. This is a big problem at big clubs, United never had it under him. I believe Arteta is creating a similar culture. Getting rid of players who undermines him is a signal to every player that they aren't bigger than the club. Man United current dressing room have bussed 2-3 managers because of them downing tools.

I think this fan banner was put up in 1990 before the FA Cup win though:

Alright, I’m an Artetasexual now.

 

[say yes]

Usually happen? You can’t name another top 6 manager in the history of the prem whose been allowed 3 top 8 finishes and given so much to virtually replace the entire team?

It's completely disingenuous to list Arteta's first half-season here (when we finished 8th) as if it were a failure.

He took over a club in freefall and within striking distance of relegation. Only City/Liverpool/Chelsea/United averaged more points per game following his appointment, and he won the FA Cup.

Put simply, blaming Arteta for where the club finished in 19/20 is a complete nonsense, and there's a reason why nobody sensible (including the board) held it against him.

 

[Oxeki]

It's completely disingenuous to list Arteta's first half-season here (when we finished 8th) as if it were a failure.

He took over a club in freefall and within striking distance of relegation. Only City/Liverpool/Chelsea/United averaged more points per game following his appointment, and he won the FA Cup.

Put simply, blaming Arteta for where the club finished in 19/20 is a complete nonsense, and there's a reason why nobody sensible (including the board) held it against him.

I keep hearing this, but we haven't seen it transformed into actual league finish. I know I'm being a bit harsh on him but you have stats claiming we've been better than Sp**s in the past two seasons and yet we've finished below them during that time. I guess I'm just frustrated that those stats haven't come to fruition.

 

[2Smokeyy]

After @2Smokeyy revealed he was Artekkers the other day this is most welcome news!

Did you miss this in the All Or Nothing documentary?

 

[drippin]

I keep hearing this, but we haven't seen it transformed into actual league finish. I know I'm being a bit harsh on him but you have stats claiming we've been better than Sp**s in the past two seasons and yet we've finished below them during that time. I guess I'm just frustrated that those stats haven't come to fruition.

Last season was very close. Even one referee mistake could have tipped it in our favour.

Arsenal squad is like 3,5 years younger this season than Sp**s according to Transfermarkt.

It's coming man.

Premier League - Average age of formation

Average age for each team in the league Premier League in the season 23/24.

www.transfermarkt.com