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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
For sure, but we also need to reliably pump the non top teams to get anywhere. No point pulling out a 3-0 against City or whoever and then getting a limp **** home draw vs Wolves or something
Barring crazy injuries, I don't see this being a problem for us though. Belief/psychological dominance is really what we're playing for now.

Terrible injuries/fixture list could blow wht im saying apart though.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Another perception of mine that is a cause of my optimism:
The combination of control and sustained threat I think we're starting to see is something I haven't seen at this club for many, many years, although my memory's hazy. Vast majority of the late wenger era was characterised by explosive teams and short, explosive, periods. 3-0 vs Chelsea and Utd come to mind: we look like we're about to absolutely blow the other team away, but inevitably the pace drops, the other team stabilises and we fizzle out.
To me, this feels different, it feels like a basis on which to win leagues.
 

CaseUteinberger

Big aficionado of Xhaka Redemption Arc ❤
Another perception of mine that is a cause of my optimism:
The combination of control and sustained threat I think we're starting to see is something I haven't seen at this club for many, many years, although my memory's hazy. Vast majority of the late wenger era was characterised by explosive teams and short, explosive, periods. 3-0 vs Chelsea and Utd come to mind: we look like we're about to absolutely blow the other team away, but inevitably the pace drops, the other team stabilises and we fizzle out.
To me, this feels different, it feels like a basis on which to win leagues.
Think this is a real long shot. I agree that the team feels much more solid this time around, but Man City just look awfully strong over 38 games. My hope is we finish somewhere between 2nd and 3rd and that requires Partey to play quite a few games, which doesn't feel all that likely given his poor injury record with us. But right now it feels like that is in there with no other team outside City looking very good so let's hope! :thumbsup:
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player: Martinelli
Think this is a real long shot. I agree that the team feels much more solid this time around, but Man City just look awfully strong over 38 games. My hope is we finish somewhere between 2nd and 3rd and that requires Partey to play quite a few games, which doesn't feel all that likely given his poor injury record with us. But right now it feels like that is in there with no other team outside City looking very good so let's hope! :thumbsup:

Pretty sure he's talking about in the future seasons and no this one, tbh. Imo we're still 2-3 players off competing for league titles.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Barring crazy injuries, I don't see this being a problem for us though.
Terrible injuries/fixture list could blow wht im saying apart though.
You need to speak to AM veterans @Jury and @say sorry . When I first joined they told me over and over 'injuries aren't an excuse ffs' So if Arteta can't win the league with injuries they'll tell you he needs to go. Simple as.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
You need to speak to AM veterans @Jury and @say sorry . When I first joined they told me over and over 'injuries aren't an excuse ffs' So if Arteta can't win the league with injuries they'll tell you he needs to go. Simple as.
I’m not bringing them up as an excuse in this context, more a statement of fact. For the most part I see us dominating non top 6 opposition, but we’re going to have a crazy schedule at times this year and we have some injury prone players, so the team could get really badly hit at some point. In that case I could be wrong and we might not be able to dominate those teams.

As far as the past, ofc Arsène and Arsenal have been desperately unlucky with injuries at times. But there are other considerations— Arsène should have ditched many of those player, for example
 

Blood on the Tracks

The Trusted Essayist 📖
Trusted ⭐
Not sure you can really compare Fergies situation to Arteta's in terms of tenure to date. Even though there may be surface level similarities.

Fergie is just a massive outlier with what he achieved after a fairly poor start. In fact he's a one off.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Well-Known Member
Yeah there was clear progress on the scenes on his first seasons over what was there, followed by that horrendous one when he rightfully faced backlash and got that famous banner before recovering with cups and eventually delivering the title.

86-87, from 19th to 11th with no signings
87-88 2nd (best position since 80-81)
88-89 11th (3rd in february but imploded)
89-90 11th and FA Cup (the banner season)
90-91 6th and Cup Winners Cup
91-92 2nd
92-93 (PL) Title

Bit different that getting the club out of Europe for the first time in 2 decades and not reaching the points tally of the manager he replaced who had nowhere near the support he enjoys tbh.

How is it, seasons before SAF took over:

3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th

Yes the second place finish was impressive, but between then and 91-92 most people would consider those seasons to be sackable in our modern knee jerk culture.
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
If he'd had Arteta's money I'm sure he would have done bro.
Wenger made some poor decisions in the market, let's not rewrite history. His backing was obviously not a fraction of what Arteta's getting, and you might rightly or not feel bitter about it because one has done an immeasurable job for Arsenal while the other has done nothing, but some transfer windows were of Wenger's own doing.

Even if you don't believe egghead (which I don't) with his "We'vE GoT MoNeY" shtick there were too many Januarys and summer windows where any warm body would've brought us over the line, a defender in 10/11, a striker in any of the bruck Giroud years, ****ing anyone the summer we got helmet boy. Can't blame it all on the budget some blame has to go to the man himself.
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
I wasn't even trying to talk about Arteta no more, but since I'm in here what was so special about the Brentford win that bought some of the Arteta backers out of hiding?
I'm certain say yes would've came back at the end of last season if we made top 4 but knew it wasn't enough. I think they see top 4 as guaratneed this year so they can come out of hiding early.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Wenger made some poor decisions in the market, let's not rewrite history. His backing was obviously not a fraction of what Arteta's getting, and you might rightly or not feel bitter about it because one has done an immeasurable job for Arsenal while the other has done nothing, but some transfer windows were of Wenger's own doing.

Even if you don't believe egghead (which I don't) with his "We'vE GoT MoNeY" shtick there were too many Januarys and summer windows where any warm body would've brought us over the line, a defender in 10/11, a striker in any of the bruck Giroud years, ****ing anyone the summer we got helmet boy. Can't blame it all on the budget some blame has to go to the man himself.
Criticising managers in the transfer market is difficult. That’s because there are just too many unknowns for fans, like how much money the owner allows, who else in the club has their finger in that pie (owners, Gazidis with his stat DNA, directors of football), players that are actually available to buy that window, players the scouts tell you will be a prospect but never materialise, and worst of all expensive players that come with great form but through no fault of the club just bombs because they’re homesick or a whole other plethora of reasons.

It’s a complete minefield. Even the very best managers have attracted some howlers, Fergie and Wenger included. The only managers who overcome the lottery that is the transfer window are those with enough money to ship out their mistakes quite quickly like Pep and unbelievably Arteta who‘s had license to sell or loan a number of players like Runarsson, Willian, Tavares, Mari, Auba (who he gave a massive pay rise too), to quickly cover mistakes.

Those who say if we’d bought this or that player, we might win this or that . . . kids stuff.
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
Criticising managers in the transfer market is difficult. That’s because there are just too many unknowns for fans, like how much money the owner allows, who else in the club has their finger in that pie (owners, Gazidis with his stat DNA, directors of football), players that are actually available to buy that window), players the scouts tell you will be a prospect but never materialise, and worst of all expensive players that come with great form but through no fault of the club just bombs because they’re homesick or a whole other plethora of reasons.

It’s a complete minefield. Even the very best managers have attracted some howlers, Fergie and Wenger included. The only managers who overcome the lottery that is the transfer window are those with enough money to ship out their mistakes quite quickly like Pep and unbelievably Arteta who‘s had license to sell or loan a number of players like Runarsson, Willian, Tavares, Mari, Auba (who he gave a massive pay rise too), to quickly cover mistakes.

Saying if we’d bought this or that player, we might win this or that is kids stuff.
All of that is true and none of it pertinent to my criticism of Wenger. I don't blame him for Mustafi Xhaka etc not working out, most of them were terrific signings at the time and as you say there are loads of different factors coming into whether a player becomes a success.

I definitely blame him for the windows mentioned. I don't buy the notion Gazidis or statDNA were at fault for us not signing players, even if we're ignoring that Wenger was the one who brought them in or allowed them into the club he was hesitant in the market before they came along.

I hate the British way of viewing the transfer market as the solution to all issues, that's also a big factor why I don't rate Arteta. A football manager's primary responsibility is to (a) get the players he has to play well together and (b) to improve them beyond their initial level. Wenger was pretty much second to none to any manager in the world for the duration of his career especially at the latter.

But he did have a weakness in recognising when to add another body when the players he put his trust in weren't reliable either because of ability or availability. We could've had won another title or two if he just added to Vermaelen/Kos or Giroud in 11 or 15 or 16, not even an expensive first team signing just another decently abled body to rest the others.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
I'm certain say yes would've came back at the end of last season if we made top 4 but knew it wasn't enough. I think they see top 4 as guaratneed this year so they can come out of hiding early.
To be fair to say yes he’s not the only one to come out of hiding, a few other Wenger kickers are appearing slowly like @rich 1990 and @WhatAFC. They’ve had a reset with all this mid table stuff but the thought we might achieve what they once mocked mercilessly is too big a draw. :lol:
 

Arsenal Quotes

When I arrive at the gates of Heaven the Good Lord will ask "What did you do in your life?"
I will respond "I tried to win football matches."
He will say: "Are you certain that's all?"
"Well, that's the story of my life. It is not easy to win football matches, you know."

Arsène Wenger
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