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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Its an interesting discussion to be had IMO. What would happen if we put our 2007/08 team into a time machine, and bring them into the 2022/23 season. Fully fit, and able to compete for an entire season. Or if you’d like go and get one of the 2001/02 or 2003/04 sides.

How would they do today?

The bigger theme here for me is the move from Wenger’s influence on the game, namely a free-er style within a framework. To the more micro managed Guardiola influenced game of today.

Organisation in defence and laissez faire in offense (at least regarding top teams) always wins. Today you need to be organized in defense, know your pressing and /or gegepressing cycles and moves, but exactly that will almost always make an organized attack useless, and the only way out there is the cash cheat code. But even with today's standards these super organized, super athletic 11 man defences won't be able to cope with a truly gifted free flowing intuitive attack cause you cannot teach your players how to react to something unforeseen.
 

Blood on the Tracks

The Trusted Essayist 📖
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Most guys who aren't Pro-Arteta on here get attacked and branded as haters. You see the "certain man is angry we won" posts after every win.

And also I think the overall perception of Arteta is an even 50-50 split. The overwhelming majority don't hate him like you seem to think.

No I don't think most Arsenal fans anywhere hate Arteta. I just think on here there's maybe a slightly higher percentage than in other places. Maybe that's just because we're probably the hardcore of online fandom.

I can understand why people may not been taken with him as a personality or as a manager. I guess I just don't get the intensity of personal dislike for him at times.

I'm not trying gate keep Arsenal fandom, say people shouldn't express their true feeling or aren't real fans for holding different views. I'm just genuinely curious what it is about the guy that draws such strong emotions. Personally I find him quite a boring character. I find it hard to feel strongly about him as a person either way.

Like him not being sacked the 1-2 times he should have been should be on the decision makers above him.
He implemented change that probably most fans wanted predating Arsène leaving, discipline, a bit more structure etc.

It seems to me his main crime is not being Arsène Wenger, which I guess is true :lol:
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
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This makes literally no sense… why would you hate someone because of the actions of a group of people who he doesn’t even know?
Arteta's staunchest backers spent ages here proclaiming that Arteta was cleaning Wenger's mess and shat on Wenger and still continue to do so.

So yeah, that definitely put me off him.
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
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No I don't think most Arsenal fans anywhere hate Arteta. I just think on here there's maybe a slightly higher percentage than in other places. Maybe that's just because we're probably the hardcore of online fandom.

I can understand why people may not been taken with him as a personality or as a manager. I guess I just don't get the intensity of personal dislike for him at times.
I've already explained my reason for my dislike. He's treated certain players like crap and also his non-negotiable spiel turned out to be bullshit. We saw how certain players eg Willian and Partey flouted this stuff and nothing happened.
But guys like Guendouzi, Pepe, etc got treated like ****.


Like I said, I'll keep supporting the team but I don't think I'll ever take to him.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya 🎵

Player: Xhaka
Arteta's staunchest backers spent ages here proclaiming that Arteta was cleaning Wenger's mess and shat on Wenger and still continue to do so.

So yeah, that definitely put me off him.
I get what you’re saying, but you should hate on the backers, not arteta. It’s not like he’s some messiah that has evangelised posters here to abuse those who don’t bow down.

Internet is full of weirdos. The fact that there’s even a handful of wenger haters on an Arsenal forum still after all the water under the bridge is as good a proof of that as I’ve see .
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
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Player: Vieira
Will be interesting to follow his career. It’s very rare to have such a high profile club on your resume this early in the career.

For sure, he most likely will have another run at Arsenal after this depending on his career trajectory.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
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Player: Saliba
Getting excuses in already?! Bro - you are like a walking talking false dichotomy. You don’t need to hate on arteta to love Arsène. Hate him on merit (or rather lack of) that’s fine, it’s what @Nacho is doing, but we all know that’s not what you’re doing. It’s like saying I need to love my first born less if I have a second child. Your heart isn’t a ffing pie chart.
Genuinely no idea what that post is about. Like some amateur psychologist trying to dissect posts and come with a convoluted theory. I make no bones about not liking Arteta the character. Shouting and screaming at people with little wit or humour isn't my thing. But his 2.5 seasons as manager so far have been all top 8 finishes and very underwhelming.

If he does well this year I've still no idea whether it's his learning curve or the extraordinary amount of money he's had. I love the team and the club, so that's enough for me. You guys that are fawning over his every word are welcome to get on with it. But all those pretending that you've got to keep praising Arteta or you're not a proper supporter can p!ss off.
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
Dusted 🔻

Player: Vieira
You guys that are fawning over his every word are welcome to get on with it. But all those pretending that you've got to keep praising Arteta or you're not a proper supporter can p!ss off.

He's not for everybody but you're right he doesn't have to be. Just like some of the players as well.

As long as it's all respectful I don't see the prob.
 

Fabregasm

Well-Known Member
I've already explained my reason for my dislike. He's treated certain players like crap and also his non-negotiable spiel turned out to be bullshit. We saw how certain players eg Willian and Partey flouted this stuff and nothing happened.
But guys like Guendouzi, Pepe, etc got treated like ****.


Like I said, I'll keep supporting the team but I don't think I'll ever take to him.

Kind of like in working world you get a new job as manager to a company inherited a team of workers. There's always some slackers or pricks out there that doesn't give **** to you or listen to instruction. They can be high functional as individual but as team player there's big drawback. You tried your best but they are not willing to change

Are you going to bow down to them or treat them like shi* just to get the message across and get them to leave the company. Naturally the own people you brought in or those that listens to you gets special treatment as you are more inclined to help them succeed.

It might be different context in football management but people management wise I am going to predict it is as what I mentioned.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
Most guys who aren't Pro-Arteta on here get attacked and branded as haters. You see the "certain man is angry we won" posts after every win.

And also I think the overall perception of Arteta is an even 50-50 split. The overwhelming majority don't hate him like you seem to think.
I get where you are coming from here. Won`t deny that there are a few people branded as "haters".
But as I keep saying, the fact that there is a term called "ArtetaSexual" exists indicates that the same issue exists on the opposite side too? Aren`t pro-Arteta people here "attacked" every time there is anything wrong at all with the team. Some of the comments here make you think that we had a team that was ideal in every respect before and all our problems are due to one person(and also that all the problems will disappear as soon as that person goes)
 

mpower2540

Well-Known Member
The injuries definitely harmed us more than the mental fortitude after Eduardo's injury. In a very short period, we lost Gilberto, Flamini, Hleb and Rosicky. We ended up playing a complete rookie in Alex Song away at OT, and even then we almost got away with a win. It was only when the ref gave a huge favour to United by having their spot kick taken again, after Lehman saved it the 1st time. And then Hargreaves scored his once in a lifetime free kick.

After Brum we also played another 3 straight draws: Wigan, Villa and Boro.
That OT game was arguably one of the best games i've watched in the premier league. The standard was immense. I actually felt we outplayed them for large periods, Hleb had them petrified. Unfortunately, we succumbed to a penalty and a perfectly placed free kick.
Think they conceded 20 goals that season, supreme team that, best Ferguson team IMO, for those three seasons.

Yeah you’re right, think it’s my Arsenal bias on display, we were title challengers that year but United were better overall, Chelsea as well most likely.

I still do wonder what would have happened had we not lost Eduardo that way though. We were electric up to that point, looked unstoppable.
Weird draws with Wigan, Middlesborough, and Villa in the run-in were killers. Football can be cruel.
 

Blood on the Tracks

The Trusted Essayist 📖
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I've already explained my reason for my dislike. He's treated certain players like crap and also his non-negotiable spiel turned out to be bullshit. We saw how certain players eg Willian and Partey flouted this stuff and nothing happened.
But guys like Guendouzi, Pepe, etc got treated like ****.


Like I said, I'll keep supporting the team but I don't think I'll ever take to him.

That's fair enough. I guess it just depends on the players you like when it comes to that sort of stuff. For me I was happy to see the back of Özil and Guendouzi. I thought they were bad influences.

Pepe I was kind of neutral on. I don't have strong feeling about him either way. Really the only situation I didn't like was the way Auba was handled.

Most of the difference of treatment in players I put down to Arteta's inexperience. Plus I think he's generally more willing to give more leeway to players or personalities he rates. To me that's a fairly natural thing to do. I don't think I could name another manager who treats players equally across the board.
 
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Nacho

World Famous Luchador
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Player: Vieira
It seems to me his main crime is not being Arsène Wenger, which I guess is true :lol:

This isn't true, because I was Wenger Out but Arteta has been so terrible at times it's compelled me to apologise to the old man and rethink my opinions on the latter half of his tenure.

Unfortunately, I was under the impression that we should have been challenging. Had Wenger been judged by the current lens afforded to Arteta then I probably wouldn't have been so annoyed at the time.

The narrative was he was holding the club back, but looking at how kids, tight budgets and 4th is revered and celebrated now his dismassal seems quite frankly absolutely pointless at this moment in time.

Who knows, maybe Arteta's lasting legacy could be successfully dampening the expectations of Arsenal fans?
 

Blood on the Tracks

The Trusted Essayist 📖
Trusted ⭐
This isn't true, because I was Wenger Out but Arteta has been so terrible at times it's compelled me to apologise to the old man and rethink my opinions on the latter half of his tenure.

Unfortunately, I was under the impression that we should have been challenging. Had Wenger been judged by the current lens afforded to Arteta then I probably wouldn't have been so annoyed at the time.

The narrative was he was holding the club back, but looking at how kids, tight budgets and 4th is revered now his dismassal seems quite frankly pointless at this moment in time.

Who knows, maybe Arteta's lasting legacy could be successfully dampening the expectations of Arsenal fans?

Well, good managers become a victim of their own success eventually. When you've set the bar so high even a moderate decline seems unacceptable to most. I wouldn't feel bad about wanting him gone at the time.

Towards the end it wasn't really a team of kids anymore, the budget was loosened a fair bit, purchases were a bit hit and miss and we still dropped out of the CL. There weren't really any logical excuses left, that's why the planes, trains and banners excuses started. It was all that was left to justify the situation.

Who knows how it'll pan out with Arteta. I'll be happy with top 4 this season. If by the end of his spell here we're not winning league titles or at least strongly competing for them most seasons I'd have to put him down as failing in the job.
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
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Player: Vieira
Towards the end it wasn't really a team of kids anymore, the budget was loosened a fair bit, purchases were a bit hit and miss and we still dropped out of the CL. There weren't really any logical excuses left, that's why the planes, trains and banners excuses started. It was all that was left to justify the situation.

I mean, apart from the kids no CL and 50/50 signings pretty much sounds like what's been happening over the past 3 years. I don't really get it.


Who knows how it'll pan out with Arteta. I'll be happy with top 4 this season. If by the end of his spell here we're not winning league titles or at least strongly competing for them most seasons I'd have to put him down as failing in the job.

God forbid it takes the guys upstairs that long to figure out he isn't the guy which is partially my problem. Just feels like his tenure is by force it's a bit of a shame.
 

Blood on the Tracks

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I mean, apart from the kids no CL and 50/50 signings pretty much sounds like what's been happening over the past 3 years. I don't really get it.




God forbid it takes the guys upstairs that long to figure out he isn't the guy which is partially my problem. Just feels like his tenure is by force it's a bit of a shame.

I guess it depends if you feel the squad / club was okay before Arteta arrived, at root.

If you don't think a pretty major rebuild of the squad was necessary for both footballing and off field / attitude reasons then yeah, it seems like Arteta hasn't really done much of note beyond getting us back to a par sort of position last year after a pretty dodgy spell earlier in his tenure.
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
Dusted 🔻

Player: Vieira
I guess it depends if you feel the squad / club was okay before Arteta arrived, at root.

If you don't think a pretty major rebuild of the squad was necessary for both footballing and off field / attitude reasons then yeah, it seems like Arteta hasn't really done much of note beyond getting us back to a par sort of position last year after a pretty dodgy spell earlier in his tenure.

From a profile perspective sure, but the culture element always was and still is massively overrated to me. We have good boys now but we are still to date in the Europa league much like when Arteta arrived.

At best it is something to cling onto and I'm sure it comforts some during the bad runs knowing that our boys are somewhere out there holding hands around a campfire instead of inhaling balloons.

I wouldn't have gotten Arteta to spearhead a rebuild in the first place and 3 years later whilst admittedly looking good, I haven't seen anything yet that would change my mind about that.
 

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