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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
How about credit to Arteta for sticking with Xhaka and getting the best out of him currently?

This is one situation where you definitely say a player has developed under him. I also think Xhaka has been decent for a while, he was in the crop for our best player last season.
Not just Xhaka. Saka, Martinelli, Tierney, White, Gabriel, Partey and Jesus have all improved under the coach. Even Holding doesn’t annoy me like he used to. Saka was decent left back turned into a complete winger. People thought Arteta disliked Martinelli, but Gabi is showing his quality. Tierney and White are more complete fullbacks who can tuck infield. Gabriel’s passing has improved since his first season with us. Partey at Athletico could only play in double pivot and now had adjusted to the lone 6 role. And Jesus looks like he’s been freed from Pep’s mechanical system.

I am eager to see what Arteta could do with some of the younger guys. In 3 years time our perception on Lokonga could be very different for instance.
 

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
I’m happy Arteta has managed to bring back that “feel-good” factor has been missing for years. The division is mostly gone and I know that the trajectory of this team is up. My only gripe now is I want Arsenal to be their own team. I don’t want us to be “Man City-lite”. I really want to see Arteta grow out of Pep’s shadow. It wasn’t too long ago that City would be plucking a player from us every summer because they wanted to the class we had. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all that. But enough flattering City and their state-funded boytoy project. I want Arsenal to be their own team. I want Arteta to be his own man and grow out his shadow. I think if Arteta wants to be at the top then he has to incorporate his own ideals to his football. I understand how revolutionary Pep has been to modern football, but for every Rinus Michels there’s a Johan Cruyff in the background who can change the whole game.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
I’m happy Arteta has managed to bring back that “feel-good” factor has been missing for years. The division is mostly gone and I know that the trajectory of this team is up. My only gripe now is I want Arsenal to be their own team. I don’t want us to be “Man City-lite”. I really want to see Arteta grow out of Pep’s shadow. It wasn’t too long ago that City would be plucking a player from us every summer because they wanted to the class we had. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all that. But enough flattering City and their state-funded boytoy project. I want Arsenal to be their own team. I want Arteta to be his own man and grow out his shadow. I think if Arteta wants to be at the top then he has to incorporate his own ideals to his football. I understand how revolutionary Pep has been to modern football, but for every Rinus Michels there’s a Johan Cruyff in the background who can change the whole game.
I feel it is quite different already tbh.
From what I can see:
We play rbs with centre back qualities making us half way to a back three.
The striker’s more involved with build up hence the huge discrepancy in number of touches jesus was getting at city vs here.
We like to play through intense pressure to transition even more than they do, they like quicker, safer build ups.
 
Not just Xhaka. Saka, Martinelli, Tierney, White, Gabriel, Partey and Jesus have all improved under the coach. Even Holding doesn’t annoy me like he used to. Saka was decent left back turned into a complete winger. People thought Arteta disliked Martinelli, but Gabi is showing his quality. Tierney and White are more complete fullbacks who can tuck infield. Gabriel’s passing has improved since his first season with us. Partey at Athletico could only play in double pivot and now had adjusted to the lone 6 role. And Jesus looks like he’s been freed from Pep’s mechanical system.

I am eager to see what Arteta could do with some of the younger guys. In 3 years time our perception on Lokonga could be very different for instance.
agree with this ,
Tierney played alot more infield then I have seen him , and looked very comfortable doing it yesterday , he took his time and played more "progressive" passes as opposed to cutbacjs to defender or 1-2s then cross into box , Ben whites overlapping runs were very welled timed as well , it's like artetas got a system and when the subs are to come in they slot right into that way of playing,
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
We like to play through intense pressure to transition even more than they do, they like quicker, safer build ups.
Which brings me to the point I wanted to make.

This might sound crazy but I think that if we played city on neutral or home ground, we’d be the dominant team with the ball. Maybe I’m wrong but my eye tells me that we take far more risks to play through pressure; we’re more intent on setting up transitions this way, and are therefore more practiced at it an (i think) we might actually be better at it.

City have never pressed as crazily as Liverpool did until recently, Liverpool would crush our attempts to play through the press and transition on us. But city wasn’t always the same story. I think this explains why we were able to produce the home performance vs city but haven’t gotten close to being as effective vs pool. I could see us producing another similar performance vs city in the same or neutral fixture. I think it could even be better than the home performance last year as we are better at playing through pressure and better generally. Ofc, even in this case, they could still win with quality and clinicality.
 

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
I feel it is quite different already tbh.
From what I can see:
We play rbs with centre back qualities making us half way to a back three.
The striker’s more involved with build up hence the huge discrepancy in number of touches jesus was getting at city vs here.

We like to play through intense pressure to transition even more than they do, they like quicker, safer build ups.
Isn’t the CB at RB just a continuation of Walker at RB for City? When Walker was at Sp**s he was a lot more attack-minded but at City he’s more of a CB.
The second point also comes from Pep too. Before Halaand came, City strikers got a lot of touches on the ball.
I agree on the final point though.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Isn’t the CB at RB just a continuation of Walker at RB for City? When Walker was at Sp**s he was a lot more attack-minded but at City he’s more of a CB.
I suppose you might be right. Id need to watch them more I guess. They’ve played cancelo and Zinchenko before tho. Walker’s definitely gone through periods where he’s not starting.
The second point also comes from Pep too. Before Halaand came, City strikers got a lot of touches on the ball.
I don’t think so tbh but I’m not sure. I have no stats to back me up.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
Still think we were lucky yesterday at times. Whilst our full back options are high quality now Cedric's out of the running, Arteta's inversion tactics had them too narrow at times and they got in behind us. Perisic really should have scored.

Our xG was way better than their's, but nevertheless two key points in the game made the win certain . . sending off, and Lloris letting the ball between his legs. Arteta luck.
I think you are missing the third really key moment which was that fluffed clearance and that stupid tackle by Gabriel which resulted in a Sp**s penalty. That was Conte luck. Just that Conte luck was not good enough for them to win the game.
 

say yes

Under a rock for the past 18 months
Now we're plucking players from City because the Kroenke's are the second highest investors in all 5 major leagues since 19/20.

We really can't knock that.
Why are you excluding wages again? It’s as much a part of spending as the up-front fee, and we’re not close to the ‘second highest’ if you take account of it.

If it’s a mistake, fair enough. But if you’re doing this deliberately it’s completely disingenuous.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
Read in a few places that you should discard xG for one off games because things like long shots and penalties skew the totals too much.

Jesus had enough chances to put the game away but as I said prior to signing he’s not as clinical as the other top strikers in the league like Haaland, Ronaldo or Kane.
Yes. Like most stats, this too makes sense at a aggregate level more than individual games.
In fact, If Lloris hadn`t spilled the ball right at Jesus giving him a tap-in(Giving an Xg of 0.95), I think our Xg might have been less than Sp**s Xg.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
Why are you excluding wages again? It’s as much a part of spending as the up-front fee, and we’re not close to the ‘second highest’ if you take account of it.

If it’s a mistake, fair enough. But if you’re doing this deliberately it’s completely disingenuous.

He's been called out on it for years and just ignores it, so it has to be deliberate.

Really weird that the person championing "squad cost" as the be-all and end-all of team success - which is largely true, in fairness - just flat out ignores literally half (if not more) of that aspect of the concept.

My guess is it's because it ever so slightly weakens his narrative regarding Wenger never spending any money at all, acting like he was basically operating on the same budget as Wigan when the truth was Arsenal was offering top 4 wages but without the initial spending power in terms of bringing in players. Which still made the consistent top 4 finishes impressive, just to be clear, just not to the unrealistic wizard levels Trax likes to compare other managers to.

It's genuinely one of the clearest examples of narratives on the forum.
 

dka1

Formerly known as dka91
That people were claiming Arteta hated Martinelli.

Tbf you and @RunTheTrap are making the comment as if Martinelli wasn't completely missing from the PL (in terms of appearances) for relatively large parts of the 20/21 season even when he was fit.

It's not as if people questioned it for no reason, and please don't say that people overreacted because it's easy to say that in hindsight.

That said, I'm starting to understand that Arteta doesn't necessarily do it on purpose cos he dislikes a player, but it seems to be some kind of tunnel vision if a player isn't fully in the fold. Also probably an inexperience thing which is understandable I guess.

Another example is Nketiah last season, sure he was on the last year of his contract but he got very little game time until Arteta was forced to use him. But clearly Arteta didn't hate the player because we gave him a contract in the end.
 

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