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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
We’re speculating aren’t we?
You might be right but the level he’s able to produce is so incredible currently that I find it difficult to imagine that he wouldn’t have been very good for us last year.

I think it makes sense to have a player of that profile as our third rotation option at cb with the chance of displacing our first choices. With the benefit of hindsight we can also see how injury prone Tomiyasu was and that would have given him opportunities at rb or cb if we decided to shift white out their like this season.

I’ve always said I think the loan to Marseilles last season is what was best for him and his development. But as far as what’s best for Arsenal, I think he makes the difference to our cl campaign and we build a better relationship with the player and are better placed to negotiate a contract now if he stayed.
Yes, it's a speculation in both directions. What is true, is that the loan was a great success, and now he is starting for Arsenal, just like was planned. He says it, and it's obvious that he has developed in a full season at Marseille. It's impossible that he hasn't.

Like I said, Arsenal is not a team that has 70-80k pounds wage per week players not playing at all.

We would have needed to do that to Cedric too basically if Saliba was here. Or otherwise we would have needed to pay for him to leave also as selling deadwood has not been easy recently.

Cedric and Holding not playing at all would cost 7,2 million pounds for a season and this is not what Arsenal can afford to do with our FFP problems. Plus we would have paid Saliba's wages and didn't get any loan fee if there was one.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Cedric and Holding not playing at all would cost 7,2 million pounds for a season and this is not what Arsenal can afford to do with our FFP problems.
It’s not far off the situation we’re in now though. Maybe we should pay cedric to leave
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
It’s not far off the situation we’re in now though. Maybe we should pay cedric to leave
It's not, but this season we have UEL, which means we need more quality depth. Last season no UEL, so we needed less players.

Pretty sure Cedric will be here as a cheerleader/extreme backup until the end of his contract, which is not an end of the world as I think he only cost like max. 3,5 million pounds to buy. He has one year in contract next summer.

Holding should fetch some okay money, he has 1+1 years in contract next summer. He just turned 27, going into his prime and he is HG. Although he is not a bad extreme backup either.
 

say yes

Under a rock for the past 18 months
Wages are a separate metric. They both correlate with finishing position. It’s a lot harder to quote wages though because there are hidden bonuses and incentives. If you were here, you might remember a big discussion on Willian’s salary. Was it £100m a week, basic salary or £200m with the signing on bonus distributed over the wages period? Massive difference. The only sure way of knowing wages is to wait for the accounts to be published much later, whilst transfer fees are published regularly on Transfermarkt.
Wages are not a separate metric when discussing a club’s investment in its squad. On the contrary, they are the single biggest investment a club makes makes in its squad and a crucial determinant of transfer strategy.

Ben White was not a bigger investment than Varane. Matty Turner was not a bigger investment that Cristiano Ronaldo.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
Cedric is a good guy, dependable and good in the dressing room I'm pretty sure, there's no harm in having the odd guy like that around. White will be needed at CB anyways if one of Gabriel-Saliba gets injured/is missing.
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
Wages are not a separate metric when discussing a club’s investment in its squad. On the contrary, they are the single biggest investment a club makes makes in its squad and a crucial determinant of transfer strategy.

Ben White was not a bigger investment than Varane. Matty Turner was not a bigger investment that Cristiano Ronaldo.
What was the difference in total cost between Jesus and Haaland?

Was Haaland 2x-3x more expensive with agent fees, signing fee, wages, etc.? Does anyone know? All these affect FFP also.

This is what @Makingtrax consciously wants to ignore in his comparisons, so his stance looks better. These fees are not shown at all in Transfermarkt. And he is the squad cost man.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
What was the difference in total cost between Jesus and Haaland?

Was Haaland 2x-3x more expensive with agent fees, signing fee, wages, etc.? Does anyone know? All these affect FFP also.

This is what @Makingtrax consciously wants to ignore in his comparisons, so his stance looks better. These fees are not shown at all in Transfermarkt. And he is the squad cost man.
Tbf to trax, Wenger never involved himself with super agents, so agent’s fess would make Wenger’s tenure look better.
But all this stuff would probably make Arteta look better by comparison too
 

say yes

Under a rock for the past 18 months
What was the difference in total cost between Jesus and Haaland?

Was Haaland 3x more expensive with agent fees, signing fee etc.? Does anyone know?

This is what @Makingtrax consciously wants to ignore in his comparisons, so his stance looks better. These fees are not shown at all in Transfermarkt.
Can’t be bothered to look up Jesus’s figures, but Haaland deal’s was extortionate: something only an oil club could afford.

Athletic did pieces on it here: FIFA are trying to clamp down on huge agent fees, and here: Haaland to Manchester City: How the deal was done

Basically the deal is going to cost them £190m or so (and that is what their board set aside for it). The reported fee on transfermarkt of £51m is about 25% of that.
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
Can’t be bothered to look up Jesus’s figures, but Haaland deal’s was extortionate: something only an oil club could afford.

Athletic did pieces on it here: FIFA are trying to clamp down on huge agent fees, and here: Haaland to Manchester City: How the deal was done

Basically the deal is going to cost them £190m or so (and that is what their board set aside for it). The reported fee on transfermarkt of £51m is about 25% of that.
I don't have an account for The Athletic. Does that sum include wages for the whole contract, and everything else?
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
Tbf to trax, Wenger never involved himself with super agents, so agent’s fess would make Wenger’s tenure look better.
But all this stuff would probably make Arteta look better by comparison too
He doesn't have to worry about that, because he can only point out how little Wenger spent.

For example Henry, Bergkamp and Vieira for total cost of 33 million euros. Naturally not taking into account how much transfer fees have risen.
 

Flying Okapis

Most Well-Known Member
Tbf you and @RunTheTrap are making the comment as if Martinelli wasn't completely missing from the PL (in terms of appearances) for relatively large parts of the 20/21 season even when he was fit.

It's not as if people questioned it for no reason, and please don't say that people overreacted because it's easy to say that in hindsight.

That said, I'm starting to understand that Arteta doesn't necessarily do it on purpose cos he dislikes a player, but it seems to be some kind of tunnel vision if a player isn't fully in the fold. Also probably an inexperience thing which is understandable I guess.

Another example is Nketiah last season, sure he was on the last year of his contract but he got very little game time until Arteta was forced to use him. But clearly Arteta didn't hate the player because we gave him a contract in the end.

What absolute over reaction and pointless theories making out I'm saying more than I am :lol:

No, I'm not making the comment to be something else, as I said people on here were claiming that Arteta hated Martinelli and thats it, chill with your essay, again people on here were acting like it was factual that Arteta had beef with Martinelli when there was no evidence that he either did or didnt.

It was pure speculation and it was weird how people came to the conclusion that Arteta 'hates' him.
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
What absolute over reaction and pointless theories making out I'm saying more than I am :lol:

No, I'm not making the comment to be something else, as I said people on here were claiming that Arteta hated Martinelli and thats it, chill with your essay, again people on here were acting like it was factual that Arteta had beef with Martinelli when there was no evidence that he either did or didnt.

It was pure speculation and it was weird how people came to the conclusion that Arteta 'hates' him.
Just like he "hated" Özil for absolutely no reason. Or Saliba, and so on. It was all from the perspective how Arteta must be some mindless dictator doing things based on his twisted feelings and just wanting to use his power.
 

say yes

Under a rock for the past 18 months
It was pure speculation and it was weird how people came to the conclusion that Arteta 'hates' him.
It’s not weird when you look at who those people were.

For some, it wasn’t enough to say ‘Results haven’t been great, and I don’t rate the manager’. Instead, Arteta was the footballing-devil incarnate; a manager who got everything wrong and indeed was so despicable that they could no longer support the team or watch our games while he remained here.

So of course he hated Martinelli. Saliba too. There was no other possible explanation. In fact, Arteta was the enemy of everything good about our club: evidence of progress be damned. And boy did the ‘likes’ flow if you said it enough.
 

dka1

Formerly known as dka91
What absolute over reaction and pointless theories making out I'm saying more than I am :lol:

No, I'm not making the comment to be something else, as I said people on here were claiming that Arteta hated Martinelli and thats it, chill with your essay, again people on here were acting like it was factual that Arteta had beef with Martinelli when there was no evidence that he either did or didnt.

It was pure speculation and it was weird how people came to the conclusion that Arteta 'hates' him.

Strange comment, I wasn't screaming or rude was I? I didn't even sound upset so I'm not sure why you think I "overreacted".

And your post is much more confrontational that mine???? Anyway that's AM for you.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Strange comment, I wasn't screaming or rude was I? I didn't even sound upset so I'm not sure why you think I "overreacted".

And your post is much more confrontational that mine???? Anyway that's AM for you.
**** you dka1:lol:
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
That's not the sum Arteta has spent though, like I counted three times earlier. It was like 250 million pounds. But of course you want to count flops like Pepe to make it look like Arteta has spent the 2nd most.

Arteta only got Mari and Cedric on loan in 19/20 winter. So it's more telling about Arteta to look at the balance from 20/21 until now, or actually it would be to from 19/20 winter, but there's not that option on Transfermarkt.
There we have Chelsea and United spending almost 100 million euros more. Newcastle similar amount. Tottenham has to pay 35 million for Kulusevski next summer so basically they have spent 15 million euros more in that time frame.

So that's Chelsea, United, Tottenham getting more investment from the owners than Arteta's spend. Then you have City and Liverpool ahead in team development. That's some competition and success surely isn't quaranteed.

This transfer fee stuff also always ignores the fact how UCL teams get players cheaper, in fees and wages, because they player wants to usually go there over other teams.

This is just to show how your facts can mislead people.



Also do you see how silly this sentence looks? Can you explain your thought process here?

We aren't plucking players from City because Kroenke spends much money. Those players didn't cost a lot, they were 87 million euros for two EPL proven players.

We are doing it because Arteta has that pull for City players, Arteta has got Arsenal attractive again and Arteta & Edu have cleared the bloated wage bill.
I posted the facts, you’re posting agenda stuff. Arteta had full use of the 19/20 buys. Pepe helped him win the FA Cup that you’re keen to quote, and Saliba and Tierney are very much part of his current set up. Arsenal are the second highest investors in players since 19/20, plain facts. We should celebrate that.
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
Can someone explain his obsession with bringing in Tomiyasu 88th min every league game?
 

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