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Mikel Arteta: Artist, Manager, Legend 💡

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
Dusted 🔻

Player: Vieira
Comparing our wage bill to that at the other big 5 clubs (hint : it's the lowest) is probably a better way to determine who is a 'chequebook manager' and what teams are actually trying to buy success.

Younk Mik doing his thing and the team looking gewd and Arsenal winning bare.

He's a chequebook manager though, I don't see how this can be debated. Doesn't make him a bad one, just makes him a "don't watch the table when I inherit a squad, judge me when I can buy all my guys" type manager.

Couple of his type at the top of the game, it is what it is. You guys can say whatever you like, but the fact of the matter is whoever hires Mikel next has to take this into account because he's not coming to salvage the ting.

I don't think Arteta fans have to fight about every single inch about the dude, it's a bit much on here atm.
 

Melquiades

Well-Known Member
Younk Mik doing his thing and the team looking gewd and Arsenal winning bare.

He's a chequebook manager though, I don't see how this can be debated. Doesn't make him a bad one, just makes him a "don't watch the table when I inherit a squad, judge me when I can buy all my guys" type manager.

Couple of his type at the top of the game, it is what it is. You guys can say whatever you like, but the fact of the matter is whoever hires Mikel next has to take this into account because he's not coming to salvage the ting.

I don't think Arteta fans have to fight about every single inch about the dude, it's a bit much on here atm.

I mean, the fact that he won an FA Cup with the absolute **** team he inherited would seem to dispute this.

If you're looking for managers who can take an old, bad team with a bad mix of players and effortlessly walk them into the UCL, you're looking for a unicorn.

The 2017-2020 Arsenal teams stunk on paper and were the worst Arsenal teams since the mid-1980s. Wenger couldn't do great things with them, Emery couldn't do great things with them, and not surprisingly Arteta couldn't do great things with them either until the bulk of the dreck was replaced with better younger players.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player: Martinelli
With add ons it was 70 for Casemiro wasn’t it? That was bloody stupid in my opinion. Would you have De jong for 70 or Bellingham for 80?

Girl Why Dont We Have Both GIF
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
Dusted 🔻

Player: Vieira
If you're looking for managers who can take an old, bad team with a bad mix of players and effortlessly walk them into the UCL, you're looking for a unicorn.

These times we haven’t touched Europa final since Emery and it took significant investment for Arteta to reach 5th :lol:

Look, the team wasn’t good and was imbalanced, but some of you do way too much trying to oversell how bad it was.
 

Fabregasm

Well-Known Member
These times we haven’t touched Europa final since Emery and it took significant investment for Arteta to reach 5th :lol:

Look, the team wasn’t good and was imbalanced, but some of you do way too much trying to oversell how bad it was.

1665041473949.png

It was beyond bad for me, top squad on the way for a big decline with fat wages
 

boonthegoon

Arteta In by November

Player: Martinelli
These times we haven’t touched Europa final since Emery and it took significant investment for Arteta to reach 5th :lol:

Look, the team wasn’t good and was imbalanced, but some of you do way too much trying to oversell how bad it was.
So why didn't emery himself continue that success with the same squad with more investment? Just because they did well to reach one europa final doesn't mean that squad will be good for more time.
 

dka1

Formerly known as dka91
These times we haven’t touched Europa final since Emery and it took significant investment for Arteta to reach 5th :lol:

Look, the team wasn’t good and was imbalanced, but some of you do way too much trying to oversell how bad it was.

People just don't wanna hear it bro, if you admit that the squad was bad previously, just not thaaaat bad, or that Arteta has done very well this season but needed his own players to really get there, all that people will take from that is that you're trying to make a back handed compliment.

Tbh though like you said......some managers at the top are like that, and I don't know if even someone like Pep takes a rag tag bunch and gets them to "over perform" so to speak. So there's nothing wrong with that.
 

dka1

Formerly known as dka91
So why didn't emery himself continue that success with the same squad with more investment? Just because they did well to reach one europa final doesn't mean that squad will be good for more time.

I mean the easy answer to that is that it's why we fired him? Because he was blatantly underperforming the season following the 5th place finish.
 

theHotHead

Member
Would you trade them all in then?
At this moment in time, based on our trajectory - no. But that not because Arteta is better manager. Longer term I would prefer a different manager potentially because we will get to the point where Arteta will ave to buy a whole load of new players because he can't get the most out of players. I'm not 100% on the second part, who knows, by then he may have developed the necessary skills. But this version Arteta in the future (chequebook Arteta) - not for me thanks.
 

Blood on the Tracks

The Trusted Essayist 📖
Trusted ⭐
The later years Wenger / Emery squad wasn't bad on paper really. Had some really good players tbh.

It was a pretty poorly put together and imbalanced squad though. Plus had a few quite dubious personalities.

Recruitment felt pretty scattergun in those years so no real surprise it was a bit of a messy squad.
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
If you're looking for managers who can take an old, bad team with a bad mix of players and effortlessly walk them into the UCL, you're looking for a unicorn.
This is just not true is it though, managers outside England where money isn't an afterthought do this all the time. Even at top clubs good managers manage to improve young and old players eg Ancelotti and Vinicius or Benzema after he went there.

The squad wasn't perfect but it was far from as bad as you make it out to be. I get though it's a necessity for people who think Arteta is infallible to act like it was full of "dreck", otherwise you'd have to ask why we performed so poorly or why we've had to spend as much money as we've done.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya 🎵

Player: Xhaka
At this moment in time, based on our trajectory - no. But that not because Arteta is better manager. Longer term I would prefer a different manager potentially because we will get to the point where Arteta will ave to buy a whole load of new players because he can't get the most out of players. I'm not 100% on the second part, who knows, by then he may have developed the necessary skills. But this version Arteta in the future (chequebook Arteta) - not for me thanks.
I think as long as the players are “his” players he can get the most out of them. He’s getting more out of Jesus than pep managed and more out of Xhaka than Emery or Wenger managed for example… at the same time I don’t feel like he’s getting the most out of Saka though which is frustrating.

Ultimately it’s just a strange point of view - like you say the trajectory is upwards (and has been for some time) so the future should be bright. But we have no idea really and all managers need to be moved on eventually…
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
The later years Wenger / Emery squad wasn't bad on paper really. Had some really good players tbh.

It was a pretty poorly put together and imbalanced squad though. Plus had a few quite dubious personalities.

Recruitment felt pretty scattergun in those years so no real surprise it was a bit of a messy squad.
Not really fair comparing an era where a cheque book manager can buy players from teams like Man City, is allowed to give endless players away for nothing and replace his own mistakes very quickly, with an era of austerity. Since 19/20 Arsenal have invested a lot more in player transfers than they did in Wenger’s entire 22 years. Even allowing for inflation, which has been very low for years, that is a ridiculous increase in spending on transfers.

To say the recruitment is better now is a bit laughable. It ought to be.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
At this moment in time, based on our trajectory - no. But that not because Arteta is better manager. Longer term I would prefer a different manager potentially because we will get to the point where Arteta will ave to buy a whole load of new players because he can't get the most out of players. I'm not 100% on the second part, who knows, by then he may have developed the necessary skills. But this version Arteta in the future (chequebook Arteta) - not for me thanks.
Thank you for answering the question directly and coherently rather than avoiding it in one way or another
 

db10_therza

🎵 Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya 🎵

Player: Xhaka
Not really fair comparing an era where a cheque book manager can buy players from teams like Man City, is allowed to give endless players away for nothing and replace his own mistakes very quickly, with an era of austerity. Since 19/20 Arsenal have invested a lot more in player transfers than they did in Wenger’s entire 22 years. Even allowing for inflation, which has been very low for years, that is a ridiculous increase in spending on transfers.

To say the recruitment is better now is a bit laughable. It ought to be.

I agree with what you’re saying but….

He didn’t really compare them? He’s just saying it’s been better last few years… which you agreed with anyway 🤷‍♂️
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
I mean, the fact that he won an FA Cup with the absolute **** team he inherited would seem to dispute this.

If you're looking for managers who can take an old, bad team with a bad mix of players and effortlessly walk them into the UCL, you're looking for a unicorn.

The 2017-2020 Arsenal teams stunk on paper and were the worst Arsenal teams since the mid-1980s. Wenger couldn't do great things with them, Emery couldn't do great things with them, and not surprisingly Arteta couldn't do great things with them either until the bulk of the dreck was replaced with better younger players.
Lol. That’s exactly what Arsenal did for years after the stadium build. Would like to see Arteta make CL with the likes of Squillaci and Djourou as his CBs. :lol:
 

drippin

I reject your reality, I substitute my own !!
View attachment 9599

It was beyond bad for me, top squad on the way for a big decline with fat wages
I have brought up that team, or even Wenger last year's team, up many times for Trax, or others, to debate about. He never does, but still he always later somehow manages to make the impression that there was nothing wrong with the team, and all the money spent is done to already a great team.

Then people wonder why that team is mocked. Well it's mocked especially because Trax and others try to paint it as there hasn't been a great job done in regard of rebuild, and how tough it has been, especially in a covid market. And when you can't generate sales from deadwood players. Even this problem has been turned to only being Arteta's and Edu's fault, when in fact it has a huge effect that the players were just not good enough for clubs to want them with their big wages. Ten Hag has to do similar now.

You look at that team above, and like I have said, it has like Xhaka, Auba, Laca and Tierney (maybe Pepe for a counter-attacking team, and Tierney has been injured much) who are good enough, who are not too old for the rebuild, or past it for modern game like Özil. Then you have these super young players who only later will develop to be good enough. This is why I had so much understanding for the bad performances of Emery and Arteta.

The whole squad was full of players who are at most good enough to be bench players for Arsenal. Bellerin was good enough before his bad injury. I suggest everyone takes a hard look at that team, and evaluates the players for a few seconds.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Thank you for answering the question directly and coherently rather than avoiding it in one way or another
What’s the purpose of this why didn’t you answer those questions?
You answering the second question?

Presumably this means your answer is ‘yes’.
Come on bro, you must understand the gist of my question.

Ofc I actually wanted @Makingtrax to answer my question. What’s your answer trax
Just answer the question, do you want him gone rn? Why is this so hard?
I'm just not prepared to write an essay when I don't even know whether you'll answer my question, which is what I was actually interested in the first place, not debating the minutiae of everything yourself and Camus have said.
It's a miracle, anyone else seen trax answer a question before? I'll take the blood if it's on offer.
That’s not the question I asked. So I’ll ask again and you can answer too if you like.

I hear there’s a job going at the Spanish Inquisition. :lol:
 

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