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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
Imagine predicting you'd be on course to get 100 points halfway through the season before the season started, you'd be laughed out of here by even the staunchest of Arteta backers :lol:

Really is remarkable what he's accomplishing right now. Obviously everyone on here agreed that improvement on the last couple of seasons was the bare minimum, but this is so far beyond what could realistically have been expected by anyone.

The craziest part about all of this is it's off the back of investing in young players and developing them.
 
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El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
Add to the fact I've seen zero evidence that Stan is actually ploughing his own money into the club. I'm not counting any funky loan stuff he might be doing either because the club will have to pay that back at some point. He's not going to be out of pocket at the end of the day, I guarantee that. We've already pretty much burned through our cash reserve too ( Not that I'm against that in principle as it's largely been well spent)

Kroenke was probably the biggest root cause of the malaise that set in at Arsenal for the best part of a decade. Arsenal doing well on the pitch at the moment isn't going to blind me to everything that has occured before with his ownership.

Praise where it's due, but I'm not ever not going to be vigilant around them. Imagine someone richer than Eck appears and they decide to cashout, is anyone going to be surprised by the club owing them (KSE) lots of money?

Again, nothing wrong on paper on how they've been restructuring debts and loaning money to the club via KSE, it's been mostly well spent on the last couple of years, but it's not free.

However, if KSE is put in a place where they have to make an either/or decision between the Rams and Arsenal, they're chosing the former 9 out of 10 times. Comfy franchise money, no relegation, huge domestic and international market.

Were there ever any reports on the club being leverage as colateral? I seem to remember some whispers of it, but can't really say for sure.

This is part of a broader discussion of clubs needing some sort of fan ownership to help preserve them as institutions and as watchdogs of the business side.
 

BergMan

Betrayed by Xhaka
I actually somewhat agree with @BergMan -- having competing shareholders was a nightmare at a board level, we were a mess for many many years because of the lack of foresight. Also it's not far fetched that Kroenke's were unwilling to open the strings when they didn't have full ownership. Majority ownership is one thing but they always intended to buy out that stake and it would've continued to inflate had the Kroenke's invested more.

If Kroenke's injected us with cash at that time, I'd assume they'd also demand Usmanov to contribute which knowing the tug of war, it wouldn't happen. The best thing that happened to this club was that board mess finally got cleaned up and now we have sole ownership. Whether it being in the hands of the Kroenke's being a good thing or not is a separate debate.

That being said, they were absolutely the worst ownership group we could've had during those years but I think it's more due to the hostile nature instead of them being frugal and trying to turn profits. I agree with @El Duderino in that the fan turmoil ignited the situation and probably forced their hand into getting more involved.

In hindsight, it’s a great thing that we ended up with Kroenke rather than Usmanov considering what’s going on now in the world.
In my opinion, their total lack of investment was largely down to them wanting full ownership.

Maybe it’s also a case of Josh taking over from Stan having an impact. The father wants to save money for his future generations but the prodigal son wants to spend on sporting success.
 

Xln

Get me Jesus on the phone 📲
One thing I heard lately is that our training sessions are ridiculously intense. Like nothing some have seen. Think this is key. In the end you play like you practice. I absolutely love what Arteta has done with our team. We are hard to break down and we can score. After half a season and 50 points this isn't a fluke. This team and manager are seriously good and some pundits and journalists absolutely hate it. Well, guess what, they will have to deal with it now and for many years to come. This team will just grow and grow. Many of our players are still on the way up and can and will improve under Arteta's coaching. Just look at e.g. Eddie. His game has really improved and now he can lead the line for the PL leaders. Or take Saka and Ødegaard. They are almost unplayable at times. All these improvements can only come from practicing hard like hell!
They had to train the day after UTD game. If it were Brighton they'd get a day off for example. Arteta is putting the level very high.

My manager
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
The intensity of training and the way we play is is a good thing but at the same point it's going to make your cycles of success quite short unless you're constantly reinvigorating the squad with new players and cycling players out. The lack of rotation won't help on that front either.

I think that's one of the issues with someone like Klopp, he's ran this core group into the ground for 3-4 years and hasn't really made fundamental changes to the squad and it's taken its toll. They look leggy at best. Maybe part of that situation is down to finances though.

I guess Arteta being cutthroat and fairly unemotional may be a benefit on that front, he's more likely to be ruthless and bin top players who are stagnating or declining. All dependent on finances still though I guess.
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
They had to train the day after UTD game. If it were Brighton they'd get a day off for example. Arteta is putting the level very high.

My manager

The intensity of training and the way we play is is a good thing but at the same point it's going to make your cycles of success quite short unless you're constantly reinvigorating the squad with new players and cycling players out. The lack of rotation won't help on that front either.

I think that's one of the issues with someone like Klopp, he's ran this core group into the ground for 3-4 years and hasn't really made fundamental changes to the squad and it's taken its toll. They look leggy at best. Maybe part of that situation is down to finances though.

I guess Arteta being cutthroat and fairly unemotional may be a benefit on that front, he's more likely to be ruthless and bin top players who are stagnating or declining. All dependent on finances still though I guess.

On the intensity of our trainings and the benefits of it. We have a really young squad. Youngest in the league. Young players recover quickly and I think they learn very quickly and develop really well if they are pushed hard. Take Saka as example. The lad has played more or less non stop since he came into the squad for club and country and look how he is holding up and has developed! Also, don't get me wrong, we need squad rotation, but I like that Arteta's train waits for no one. You are either on the train and work your ass off each training and each game or you are out in the cold. I think our young players respond to that, like when Eddie more or less told Lokonga to shut up when he complained about playing time in one of the AON episodes. Now Eddie is being rewarded and he pays us back with excellent goal scoring and performances. This is the way you build a champion team. Just full steam ahead. Get on the train or you are out!
 
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VancouverCanuck

Well-Known Member

Country: Canada
DiMaria cost nearly twice as much as Alexis in the same window
Going by that "logic": Coutinho costs £108m, Jesus less than half of that. Same goes for the White, Saliba, Ramsdale and so on. Edu must have done a more outstanding job than we are giving him credit for: finding these gems from the bargain basement.
 
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VancouverCanuck

Well-Known Member

Country: Canada
Xhaka at the award ceremony to receive his Swiss player of the year award:


“I’ve had many coaches in my career, but never one like Arteta. He seems like he is focused only on football 24 hours a day.

“He always has a plan A, B – and maybe even a plan Z. But he’s not only top tactically, but he’s also top as a person.”


Also..

Shhhhh.

God forbid someone on this forum will interpret this as an attack on Wenger :)
 

Fabregasm

Well-Known Member
I think that's one of the issues with someone like Klopp, he's ran this core group into the ground for 3-4 years and hasn't really made fundamental changes to the squad and it's taken its toll. They look leggy at best. Maybe part of that situation is down to finances though.

To be fair to Klopp, he did brought in Diaz ,Jota, and Nunez (recently Gakpo) but unfortunately both Diaz and Jota are injury prone and Nunez been a flop so far. Couple of bad signings and with departure of Mane it's amazing how much they have declined since.
 

DasBootist

Well-Known Member
I actually somewhat agree with @BergMan -- having competing shareholders was a nightmare at a board level, we were a mess for many many years because of the lack of foresight. Also it's not far fetched that Kroenke's were unwilling to open the strings when they didn't have full ownership. Majority ownership is one thing but they always intended to buy out that stake and it would've continued to inflate had the Kroenke's invested more.

If Kroenke's injected us with cash at that time, I'd assume they'd also demand Usmanov to contribute which knowing the tug of war, it wouldn't happen. The best thing that happened to this club was that board mess finally got cleaned up and now we have sole ownership. Whether it being in the hands of the Kroenke's being a good thing or not is a separate debate.

That being said, they were absolutely the worst ownership group we could've had during those years but I think it's more due to the hostile nature instead of them being frugal and trying to turn profits. I agree with @El Duderino in that the fan turmoil ignited the situation and probably forced their hand into getting more involved.
Decided to read through the past few pages ITT and I will do more than 'somewhat agree' with Manberg, I will say he is obviously right.

There is no logic in investing money into a shared entity, unless the other shareholders invest as well (proportional to their shares), as you are just making somebody else richer. No room for altruism in business ffs
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
No, the evidence proves otherwise. No investment before they became owners. Suddenly it’s rolling in.
I don’t understand why you are getting so much pushback on this point. Guess many are so wedded to their historical A-M positions they refuse to accept required adjustments of them.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Decided to read through the past few pages ITT and I will do more than 'somewhat agree' with Manberg, I will say he is obviously right.

There is no logic in investing money into a shared entity, unless the other shareholders invest as well (proportional to their shares), as you are just making somebody else richer. No room for altruism in business ffs
You make good points. But you’ve also missed a very large one: the kroenkes haven’t “invested” money into the club by which I mean put their own money in. It is debt. It has very little to do with the ownership structure of the club unless the club were to be sold, in which case the debt is (always) fulfilled before shareholders get a cent.
 

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
I don’t understand why you are getting so much pushback on this point. Guess many are so wedded to their historical A-M positions they refuse to accept required adjustments of them.
Maybe people just genuinely think he's wrong? Several posters gave a number of reasons why tanking your own investment is a really poor "business strategy".

Maybe instead of "I don't understand why you get pushback" you could engage with those arguments or just stop sh*tstirring with your snide little indirects?
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Maybe people just genuinely think he's wrong? Several posters gave a number of reasons why tanking your own investment is a really poor "business strategy".

Maybe instead of "I don't understand why you get pushback" you could engage with those arguments or just stop sh*tstirring with your snide little indirects?

It’s a bit weird tbh. I accept that the sole ownership has played a part in all this. But I do not accept that the subsequent risks taken by the Kroenkes that almost doomed our club for eternity can be embraced by Arsenal fans just because we’re flying high in the league rn. We had to sit there and watch Sp**s, fkn Sp**s, finish ahead of us for season upon season ffs.

There were plenty of ways the Kroenkes could have played this given they were only a majority, and not a sole owner of the club that would have been way better for both us and for them. They don’t get a pass for all their past failures just because they got lucky in the present.
 

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