Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[CaseUteinberger]

Err, he was probably covering for them as he welcomed the challenge/salary

Bingo! Wenger worked for the Kroenkes and was very well rewarded financially. He now works for FIFA and carries their water criticising national teams that spoke out about human rights issues in Qatar. The man is no saint nor a devil. He simply gets paid and does a job, which includes being on the side of the hand that feeds him.

 

[db10_therza]

I used to absolutely hate them, especially under the later Wenger years as I felt they were too passive and only took money out. I think I referred to Stan K. as a leech. I honestly thought they were the biggest problem.

I now have changed my mind and am less critical. I think the fact that Josh is more involved and seems to want to be a more modern business man than his father is good. I think the real turning point was the Super League debacle. Think they actively are trying to better their relationship with the fans and to be more active with the club. We are bringing in more players and are more active in the transfer market. All which I think are good things. If we critique them when things go badly we need to also praise them when things improve. Only fair I think.

I mean... this is pretty much what we're all saying so I have no idea why you're opposed to it? None of us (I think) are of the opinion that they are doing a bad job now. We're just pushing back against the narrative that they're angels because of whats happening now and don't want the past brushed under the carpet.

They've been good owners for the last couple of years. They were horrible for the 10 years before that. So by my math, they owe us at least another 7 good years before I'm ready to forgive them

 

[El Duderino]

I used to absolutely hate them, especially under the later Wenger years as I felt they were too passive and only took money out. I think I referred to Stan K. as a leech. I honestly thought they were the biggest problem.

I now have changed my mind and am less critical. I think the fact that Josh is more involved and seems to want to be a more modern business man than his father is good. I think the real turning point was the Super League debacle. Think they actively are trying to better their relationship with the fans and to be more active with the club. We are bringing in more players and are more active in the transfer market. All which I think are good things. If we critique them when things go badly we need to also praise them when things improve. Only fair I think.

So, you're basically agreeing with pretty much everything I and others have said?

It's just odd that you say people are wedded to their historical A-M beliefs when, like @db10_therza mentioned, most people here were only disputing the notion put forward by Manberg that this was KSE's plan all along to tank the club's valuation in order for them to take it private.

I don't think anyone has said KSE are doing a bad job right now, quite the opposite, meaning posters have adjusted their views to give them some leeway in light of the last couple of years.

Surely you can't fault them for not trusting KSE given everything that's passed? It's a very long road before people start doing that without any caveats.

 

[jones]

Sorry for the "provocation" and "cheap trolling and derailing of threads" by saying I agree with @BergMan and don't understand why he is getting grief for his position on the owners. You are a little bit of A-M's own Richard Keys policing the Arteta thread for correct posting behaviour...

You quoted your entire post bar the relevant part, well done.

But in case you really don't understand where the trolling part comes from: saying people disagree not because they hold a different view but because they are "wedded to their historical AM positions", ie stubborn, emotional or arrogant etc is where the needless provocation comes in.

 

[jones]

I used to absolutely hate them, especially under the later Wenger years as I felt they were too passive and only took money out. I think I referred to Stan K. as a leech. I honestly thought they were the biggest problem.

I now have changed my mind and am less critical. I think the fact that Josh is more involved and seems to want to be a more modern business man than his father is good. I think the real turning point was the Super League debacle. Think they actively are trying to better their relationship with the fans and to be more active with the club. We are bringing in more players and are more active in the transfer market. All which I think are good things. If we critique them when things go badly we need to also praise them when things improve. Only fair I think.

You've been cheering Bergman on despite actually 100% agreeing with what his detractors are saying.

 

[Makingtrax]

People need to behave in this thread. "Wenger having money but refusing to spend it, Kroenkes ran Arsenal down on purpose, the fans encouraged Guendouzi, Auba and Özil to misbehave."

Keep your fantasy ideas for Harry Potter and the crock of sh!t or some such. This forum is meant to be about real stuff.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

You've been cheering Bergman on despite actually 100% agreeing with what his detractors are saying.

I did think his argument on the timing of them becoming 100% owners and that coinciding with an increased spending to be an accurate one. It is just an actual fact but he was being ridiculed for it.

And I don’t have to 100% agree with everything he says to make the comment I made, that sent you off on your little rant.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

People need to behave in this thread. "Wenger having money but refusing to spend it, Kroenkes ran Arsenal down on purpose, the fans encouraged Guendouzi, Auba and Özil to misbehave."

Keep your fantasy ideas for Harry Potter and the crock of sh!t or some such. This forum is meant to be about real stuff.

I mean if you follow the logic that the Kroenke supporters on here give, that he wouldn't invest in the club until he had full ownership, then yeah Kroenke did run Arsenal down on purpose.

 

[Makingtrax]

I mean if you follow the logic that the Kroenke supporters on here give, that he wouldn't invest in the club until he had full ownership, then yeah Kroenke did run Arsenal down on purpose.

 

[db10_therza]

I did think his argument on the timing of them becoming 100% owners and that coinciding with an increased spending to be an accurate one. It is just an actual fact but he was being ridiculed for it.

And I don’t have to 100% agree with everything he says to make the comment I made, that sent you off on your little rant.

I don’t think anyone was ridiculing @BergMan . At least I wasn’t, was a pretty good natured discussion I thought. His argument is plausible and has merit. It’s more the implications- like say it IS true, that implies the Kroenkes were happy to burn the club to the ground so they could wade in and take it over. Am I supposed to like them for this?! There were no guarantees that they would be able to resurrect the club to its former glory afterwards, if it was a “strategy” it was an unbelievably risky one. The fact that this moonshot has somehow been pulled off doesn’t detract from the fact that it was risky and foolhardy. And that’s leaving aside the fact that we had to sit there and watch our beloved club burning…

 

[BergMan]

I don’t think anyone was ridiculing @BergMan . At least I wasn’t, was a pretty good natured discussion I thought. His argument is plausible and has merit. It’s more the implications- like say it IS true, that implies the Kroenkes were happy to burn the club to the ground so they could wade in and take it over. Am I supposed to like them for this?! There were no guarantees that they would be able to resurrect the club to its former glory afterwards, if it was a “strategy” it was an unbelievably risky one. The fact that this moonshot has somehow been pulled off doesn’t detract from the fact that it was risky and foolhardy. And that’s leaving aside the fact that we had to sit there and watch our beloved club burning…

It’s not about liking the Kroenke’s. Make no mistake, like many other club owners they’re invested in it for themselves. I just think that what they did (not investing until they had full ownership) is what makes business sense for them.
The point is rather that people should have blamed Usmanov instead for our club burning. David Dein too for creating the mess of bringing competing rival shareholders into the board room in the first place.

 

[db10_therza]

It’s not about liking the Kroenke’s. Make no mistake, like many other club owners they’re invested in it for themselves. I just think that what they did (not investing until they had full ownership) is what makes business sense for them.
The point is rather that people should have blamed Usmanov instead for our club burning. David Dein too for creating the mess of bringing competing rival shareholders into the board room in the first place.

They all deserve blame. David Dein’s role in this is often overlooked because of how much he had done in the past.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I don’t think anyone was ridiculing @BergMan . At least I wasn’t, was a pretty good natured discussion I thought. His argument is plausible and has merit. It’s more the implications- like say it IS true, that implies the Kroenkes were happy to burn the club to the ground so they could wade in and take it over. Am I supposed to like them for this?! There were no guarantees that they would be able to resurrect the club to its former glory afterwards, if it was a “strategy” it was an unbelievably risky one. The fact that this moonshot has somehow been pulled off doesn’t detract from the fact that it was risky and foolhardy. And that’s leaving aside the fact that we had to sit there and watch our beloved club burning…

Think you are implying too much when you write: “that implies the Kroenkes were happy to burn the club to the ground”. That they did not want to invest all that much in a club they did not own fully doesn’t mean they were okay with destroying their investment. Seems a bit far fetched.

 

[db10_therza]

That they did not want to invest all that much in a club they did not own fully doesn’t mean they were okay with destroying their investment.

this is exactly the point that we’re trying to make?

 

[GDeep™]

Arteta, another jewel of the Wenger legacy.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Arteta, another jewel of the Wenger legacy.

And learning from the greatest coach of his generation, Pep Guardiola!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

this is exactly the point that we’re trying to make?

Did @BergMan say that anywhere? I did not see that.

Anyhow, this is a very tedious discussion. Let’s move on! Thankfully Pep gave Arteta good education which we are benefiting from! Top manager tree!

 

[dka1]

Attitude aside, they were also both massively overrated on here.

Özil in particular was completely washed and flopped in Turkey, while Auba has now been deemed surplus to requirements at 3 clubs in fewer than 12 months.

Not much nuance in your post there, I mean there's a reason they were rated it's not like they came to Arsenal and completely flopped is it.

Aubameyang was our top scorer in more that one season and was massively instrumental in helping Arteta win the FA Cup in 2019/20. In fact Aubameyang was deemed so important at the time that Arteta himself is the one that handed him a contract extension and extending his contract was a priority that summer.

For Özil he's got the most chances created in a single Premier League season (2015/16) and came close to beating Henry's assist record for Arsenal that season (I mean he really should've, had Giroud had his shooting boots on).

Look I'm not trying to say that things didn't sour towards the end of their respective Arsenal careers, but they were rightly rated for a reason before things went downhill.

As for Auba, he hasn't done great at Chelsea but he did do very well at Barcelona and scored 11 goals in 18 league games before his departure.

 

[db10_therza]

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Auba was my favourite player of that era. Top goalscorer and I went to bat for him quite a lot on here when he was going through rough spells.

In hindsight though it was right to move him on, that's clear to me now. The timing less so though.
We would not be able to play the style of football we do now with Auba up top. Doesn't have the technical ability or stamina to play the role Jesus does.

It's also partially the reason why he got moved on quickly at Barca even though he was scoring goals and hasn't really had a sniff under Potter. Games moved on, you can't just be a goalscorer at the top, top level anymore.

Özil the game had passed him by too. No-one could seriously imagine Mesut in the Ødegaard role in this side. He'd have a heart attack just trying to keep up with the workrate.

I'm not knocking Auba, maybe I am Özil to a degree due to his attitude and social media stuff but it's just a question of the game evolving past players. Doesn't mean they weren't great in their prime.

Neither would fit in a side Arteta side. We know how he wants to play now.