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When should Arsène Wenger have left ??

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Player:Saliba
2015 in my book
TBF he’d just come 2nd, and at any other club, or at Arsenal right now, that would have been superb. Do you think Arteta would leave with that finish. He’d be over the moon and the fans celebrating like crazy.

How was he to know, or the board, the fans would treat that finish like relegation stuff and make a huge effort to make life intolerable for him and the team.

But he should have left 2017, when he‘d witnessed that our fans were completely mental, despite the FA Cup win and only missing out on top 4 by one point. There’s no way any manager or team can perform with all that **** going on.
 

Joestlaachmkr

Active Member
Good job he stayed then. Coming 2nd in 2015/16 before the fans took him down will likely be our highest finish for many a year.
As i stated above, i love Wenger. But he should have stuck to his own philosophy instead of trying to copy Pep’s Tiki-taka football.

I actually think we underperformed in 15/16, even though we finished second in the league.
 

Makingtrax

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As i stated above, i love Wenger. But he should have stuck to his own philosophy instead of trying to copy Pep’s Tiki-taka football.

I actually think we underperformed in 15/16, even though we finished second in the league.
Well the club had the 5th most investment in the squad yet beat --Poch, Klopp, Mourinho, Van Gaal and Pelligrini:
-most clean sheets
-highest xGfor
-lowest xG against
-only club to best Leicester away and at home

All with the worst injury record in the league, losing their best player in November. Liverpool have just folded with their injury problems.

If that's underperformance what we have now is a joke. You just saying it means nothing, where's your metrics.
 

Andrew Cole Linighan

Active Member

Country: England

Player:Saka
I will always thank Arsène Wenger for what he had done at Arsenal. I had faith in him to turn things round if things were going wrong.
But there was a time when I thought it was time for a change. It was in 2017, after the 10-2 aggregate defeat to Bayern Munich in the Champions League.
I think a change was needed then, I think at that time, Jürgen Klopp was available having left Dortmund?
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
2021 . after making sure Kronke the rat left. The fans let him down. Instead of uniting against Kroenke...the weakminded ones got manipulated into ranting against Wenger.
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
I will always thank Arsène Wenger for what he had done at Arsenal. I had faith in him to turn things round if things were going wrong.
But there was a time when I thought it was time for a change. It was in 2017, after the 10-2 aggregate defeat to Bayern Munich in the Champions League.
I think a change was needed then, I think at that time, Jürgen Klopp was available having left Dortmund?
so was Tuchel available now.... and we had come 8th and had a rookie in charge. The problem was always the garbage walmart mentality football-ignorant ownership.
 

Makingtrax

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They had to do after all the garbage men your man Arsène signed up for us
Oh yeah, so why did Arteta try to resign Mustafi.

This is the sort of anti Wenger sh!t that’s pervaded this forum for years. I wonder what Wenger ever did to warrant the abuse he got and drivel that people still keep spouting. If it’s not Wenger owing his early success to a previous manager, it’s the current manager having to clear up Wenger’s mess, still being posted.

He was loyal to the club, on average got a trophy every other year, finished an average of 2.8 in the Prem on a ****ing shoe string for most of it. What has caused such antagonism amongst Arsenal fans? It’s baffling. Yet the current guy’s done nothing yet and people absolutely love him. Sick if you ask me. I’ll praise him when he’s done something of note and can keep us there.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Depends what you mean by degrade. The average age of the squad in 18/19 before Arteta took over was 27.2, exactly the same as Man City and Sp**s and younger than Chelsea.
Well there's our first problem, we won't agree here. I don't think there were many players that hit the trinity of playing to a top 4 standard, on reasonable wages, and had sell on value. He's certainly made some significant errors but I think Edteta has been largely successful in signing players that tick these three boxes. If you keep ticking those boxes you'll get good performances, sales (even if Edu has **** negotiating abilities), and continuity/sustainability.

That looks like the target model to me.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Oh yeah, so why did Arteta try to resign Mustafi.

This is the sort of anti Wenger sh!t that’s pervaded this forum for years. I wonder what Wenger ever did to warrant the abuse he got and drivel that people still keep spouting. If it’s not Wenger owing his early success to a previous manager, it’s the current manager having to clear up Wenger’s mess, still being posted.

He was loyal to the club, on average got a trophy every other year, finished an average of 2.8 in the Prem on a ****ing shoe string for most of it. What has caused such antagonism amongst Arsenal fans? It’s baffling. Yet the current guy’s done nothing yet and people absolutely love him. Sick if you ask me. I’ll praise him when he’s done something of note and can keep us there.
Relax bro, he's beloved. We basically all love him. I love him, I'm just a contrarian and think supporters like your self are a bit nutty and react.

When I think about it, I'm happy he has zealots on his side. Back when it was coming to the end of his time, I was seriously afraid he was tarnishing his legacy and the way people would remember him; I'm happy to find that my fears were misguided.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
Relax bro, he's beloved. We basically all love him. I love him, I'm just a contrarian and think supporters like your self are a bit nutty and react.

When I think about it, I'm happy he has zealots on his side. Back when it was coming to the end of his time, I was seriously afraid he was tarnishing his legacy and the way people would remember him; I'm happy to find that my fears were misguided.
Wenger did tarnish his legacy, unfortunately. If he had left after that cup win in 2013/14, he would be revered as a god.

Instead, he hung on for a few years too long and had to be forced out, saddling the club with a lot of poor decisions he made in desperation towards the end (e.g., Özil's mammoth contract, Mikhitaryan, spending ~£120m on two CFs in six months). Like any elite manager, he had too much self-belief to ever throw in the towel.

Memories of him are still overwhelmingly positive though. To borrow a political aphorism: every football manager's career ends in failure.
 

Makingtrax

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Well there's our first problem, we won't agree here. I don't think there were many players that hit the trinity of playing to a top 4 standard, on reasonable wages, and had sell on value. He's certainly made some significant errors but I think Edteta has been largely successful in signing players that tick these three boxes. If you keep ticking those boxes you'll get good performances, sales (even if Edu has **** negotiating abilities), and continuity/sustainability.

That looks like the target model to me.
If you’re saying the squads a lot better now than when it took over, I agree. This squad is really good, this year’s acquisitions were as good as any other team, if not better.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
If you’re saying the squads a lot better now than when it took over, I agree. This squad is really good, this year’s acquisitions were as good as any other team, if not better.
There’s a crucial ingredient you’re missing, this lot are easy to get rid of, and because of age/contract state, retain value.

It makes transitioning easier. The idea now would be to let the team grow to an average age of 26 or so and just maintain from there.
 

Slug457

Active Member
Wenger did tarnish his legacy, unfortunately. If he had left after that cup win in 2013/14, he would be revered as a god.
He tarnished his legacy by not leaving at the end of 2016/17 after 3 FA cups in 4 years, would have been far harder to push the he declined line whilst bashing a 75 point FA cup winning CL knockout season. He didn't give a F about his legacy though, only cared about what was best for the club, which is why he tried powering on against the WOB. Credit to the WOB though, they kept going and going and finally kicked the clubs knees in 2017/18, which sunk us to the point of not even being deemed worthy of competing against Faroes farmers in the Conference league qualifying rounds.

The best thing Wenger ever did for the WOB was hold on for as long as he did, if he'd caved 2013/14 there'd have been no record investment from the Kroenkes, and the decline would have been far far worse than back to back 8th.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
Oh yeah, so why did Arteta try to resign Mustafi.

This is the sort of anti Wenger sh!t that’s pervaded this forum for years. I wonder what Wenger ever did to warrant the abuse he got and drivel that people still keep spouting. If it’s not Wenger owing his early success to a previous manager, it’s the current manager having to clear up Wenger’s mess, still being posted.

He was loyal to the club, on average got a trophy every other year, finished an average of 2.8 in the Prem on a ****ing shoe string for most of it. What has caused such antagonism amongst Arsenal fans? It’s baffling. Yet the current guy’s done nothing yet and people absolutely love him. Sick if you ask me. I’ll praise him when he’s done something of note and can keep us there.

Perhaps because Wengers 13 signings in his last 4 years were failures in the market bar Alexis:

Lacazette - £60m - worse than Giroud who he was effectively replacing and much worse than Aubameyang who Wenger passed on to sign Lacazette
Xhaka - £40m okay but we could have had Kante for less.
Perez - £20m Never even used
Mustafi - £35m disaster class flop
Holding - decent punt
Cech - decent but past his prime and would need replacing shortly after
Alexis - elite
Chambers - not good enough
Welbeck - £16m okayish
Debuchy - bad attitude and not good enough
Elneny - very average sideways passer
Gabriel Paulista - not good enough
Ospina - okayish

That isn't good enough for Arsenal and that's why he got sacked. Nearly all those players left on frees. Aubameyang and Mkhitaryan were supposedly Sven Mislintat signings. And then you have the audacity to run down Arteta because we can't sell the flops that Wenger, Mislintat and Raul brought in.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Wenger did tarnish his legacy, unfortunately. If he had left after that cup win in 2013/14, he would be revered as a god.
Agreed, he stayed on for a little too long. However, it's not his job to fire himself and much of what he achieved persists today.

One thing I don't understand is why he didn't try to cultivate apprentices; if you're committed to long term-ism and the security of the club, wouldn't you start working on finding someone to pass your knowledge on to a few years earlier? Particularly if you have Wenger's vision.

No one else seems particularly invested in this question, but it's always made me scratch my head.
 

Macho

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Agreed, he stayed on for a little too long. However, it's not his job to fire himself and much of what he achieved persists today.

One thing I don't understand is why he didn't try to cultivate apprentices; if you're committed to long term-ism and the security of the club, wouldn't you start working on finding someone to pass your knowledge on to a few years earlier? Particularly if you have Wenger's vision.

No one else seems particularly invested in this question, but it's always made me scratch my head.

Wenger said it wasn't his job. I recall him publicly recommending Ancelotti, but when I tried to find quotes it seems I've imagined it.

What was interesting though, I came across Walcott and Iwobi interviews saying Arsène and Ancelotti are identical, which is pretty cool as I have wishlisted Ancelotti for Arsenal for years and years. He's my favourite non Arsenal manager ever, so I'm glad that it seems he's bowing out gracefully at Madrid.
 

Makingtrax

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Perhaps because Wengers 13 signings in his last 4 years were failures in the market bar Alexis:

Lacazette - £60m - worse than Giroud who he was effectively replacing and much worse than Aubameyang who Wenger passed on to sign Lacazette
Xhaka - £40m okay but we could have had Kante for less.
Perez - £20m Never even used
Mustafi - £35m disaster class flop
Holding - decent punt
Cech - decent but past his prime and would need replacing shortly after
Alexis - elite
Chambers - not good enough
Welbeck - £16m okayish
Debuchy - bad attitude and not good enough
Elneny - very average sideways passer
Gabriel Paulista - not good enough
Ospina - okayish

That isn't good enough for Arsenal and that's why he got sacked. Nearly all those players left on frees. Aubameyang and Mkhitaryan were supposedly Sven Mislintat signings. And then you have the audacity to run down Arteta because we can't sell the flops that Wenger, Mislintat and Raul brought in.
Arteta didn’t even try and sell some of those those ‘flops’ as you call them. He gave Auba a massive pay rise, panicked when he had a dry run very similar to Kane, and then gave him away for free. The guy went to Barca and scored 11 goals in a few weeks. Lol.

He tried to resign Mustafi, the weakest of that whole bunch. :lol:

Cech came in gave Arsenal the most clean sheets in the league and he was only a few mill, compared to what Ramsdale cost. Did he manage that last year? No.

And what about Arteta’s flops Runarsson, Tavares, Willian, Mari, Cedric how much do you think he’ll get for those in total?

You can disparage Wenger’s buys in those years and yes the squads weren’t as good as the one we have now but what was the clubs investment in those 4 years compared to the last 4 years.

Transfermarkt figures 4 year figures for club investment:
14/15 to 17/18 - £187m
19/20 to 22/23 - £376m
Since inflation has only been running at less than 2% for a long time until very recently, that’s a big step up.

And one final thing, 16-18 the club was in turmoil thanks to the fans with all their toxic attempts to force out the manager. Hardly surprising that the club made some panic decision in those days. Arteta’s got no excuse.
 

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