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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
Hleb until this day is still one of my favourite players, I think a lot of fans discredit him for the way he left but back then he was making a lot of so called “top players” look average.

Never forget the way he performed in Milan and over those two legs against Liverpool when Kuyt had to manhandle him in the first leg.

Throwback:



Hleb was ahead of his time, he'd be perfect as a high 8 or a wide position with the game is played now.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
The contesexual crawls out of his hole…
What brings you back? Looking to reincite the insurrection? To spread more lies and propaganda about tsar Conte?
I’ve always made it clear that Conte isn’t the hill I’m willing to die on.

I just find it laughable when people try to tear him down to praise Mikel. It’s Antonio Conte ffs. :lol:
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
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Country: England
Pretty sure you’re horribly wrong here. I think the teams are more cynical now; they systematise their fouling. But when I’ve gone back and watched games from that period I’ve thought it was extremely dirty and rash. Most of those Wenger sides were dirty and passionate (not very clever with it though); I just think we were more exposed than other teams because our attacks were more complex, we’d run with the ball, we had more possession etc.

Yes I'd agree with this though I think it's a bit harsh to say @db10_therza was horribly wrong. However, I think the game was definitely more dirty and physical in the past (I even think back to the unbeaten run ending game at OT where those rat faced c*nts "The Neville Sheep Shaggers" kicked lumps out of Reyes).

But what's happening now is that teams are extremely cynical and "smart" with the way they foul and they'll repeatedly target certain players or make fouls to break our flow and get away with it. But overall physicality is definitely less imo, and if you can play the game of buying fouls then there's a lot of benefit to be had nowadays.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
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Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Yes I'd agree with this though I think it's a bit harsh to say @db10_therza was horribly wrong. However, I think the game was definitely more dirty and physical in the past (I even think back to the unbeaten run ending game at OT where those rat faced c*nts "The Neville Sheep Shaggers" kicked lumps out of Reyes).

But what's happening now is that teams are extremely cynical and "smart" with the way they foul and they'll repeatedly target certain players or make fouls to break our flow and get away with it. But overall physicality is definitely less imo, and if you can play the game of buying fouls then there's a lot of benefit to be had nowadays.
Yeah I mean I’ll be honest I haven’t rewatched the old games in a while and my romanticised recollection of them is almost certainly just bollocks.

@dka1 assesment seems spot on - there were definitely more leg breaker tackles in the past - but there’s more ****housery now.
 

MartiSaka

Join my "Occupy A-M" movement here 🗳
That's your interpretation, and there's definitely, IMO, some bias in it. Arteta wouldn't have been given extra powers if he did not give the club and the players reason to believe in him in his first half season, and did not take steps to manage the toxicity in the club, succeeding at it far better than Em*ry (admittedly low bar).

The rest can basically be responded to with the below post. The idea that Em*ry did not take our club to new lows and did not represent a major step back for this club is really impossible to refute if you are willing to look at the stats and things with something of an open mind.
I would also say there is bias built into your interpretation also but that's beside the point. Granted, Arteta achieved marginal improvements (particularly defensively) as the stats suggest in the second half of 18/19 relative to Emery first half of season. But I was answering the question, when did we hit rock bottom as a club, you think its under Emery in 18/19, but I would suggest under Arteta up to January in the 19/20 season. You don't present the stats separately for this period, but I am pretty sure they are horrendous even relative to Emery's first half stats presented in 18/19. This is the point I felt most depressed as an arsenal fan.

Arteta has definitely been superior to Emery defensively across his management period, but hasn't been able to match either Emery or Wenger from an attacking point of view until this year. You might say they had better attackers, but actually they were similar in the striker position, and the same point could be argued that Arteta had access to better defenders.
 

Clrnc

Established Member
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Player:Tomiyasu
That line up was better with Eboue at right mid and Rozza off the bench.

Flamini was an absolute beast in them days as well.
Can't give you Eboue at RM though, no chance he was better than Rosicky. In fact one of the big reasons we tailed off is because we had no depth and he had to play there.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
Its an interesting discussion to be had IMO. What would happen if we put our 2007/08 team into a time machine, and bring them into the 2022/23 season. Fully fit, and able to compete for an entire season. Or if you’d like go and get one of the 2001/02 or 2003/04 sides.

How would they do today?

The bigger theme here for me is the move from Wenger’s influence on the game, namely a free-er style within a framework. To the more micro managed Guardiola influenced game of today.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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Country: England

Player:Rice
Its an interesting discussion to be had IMO. What would happen if we put our 2007/08 team into a time machine, and bring them into the 2022/23 season. Fully fit, and able to compete for an entire season. Or if you’d like go and get one of the 2001/02 or 2003/04 sides.

How would they do today?

The bigger theme here for me is the move from Wenger’s influence on the game, namely a free-er style within a framework. To the more micro managed Guardiola influenced game of today.

I think when you look at the most successful Arsenal sides in terms of winning trophies the football was magnificent but there was a lot of ****housery, scrapping abilities and resilience in those sides which at times carried us through when we weren't playing great. No opponent was going to out battle those sides.

The Wengerball years we had largely lost that component to our game. We were a lot softer and probably lacked the big characters and on field leadership a little.

I'm not knocking him as he was a good player but going from an Adams or Vieira to a Gallas as captain is a pretty significant downgrade leadership and character wise.

I'm not downplaying that 07/08 side, it was good but it was significantly off the quality of the earlier Arsenal title winning sides and not in the same realm as the 03/04 side.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Its an interesting discussion to be had IMO. What would happen if we put our 2007/08 team into a time machine, and bring them into the 2022/23 season. Fully fit, and able to compete for an entire season. Or if you’d like go and get one of the 2001/02 or 2003/04 sides.

How would they do today?

The bigger theme here for me is the move from Wenger’s influence on the game, namely a free-er style within a framework. To the more micro managed Guardiola influenced game of today.
That fact that posters are even discussing which side 07/08 or 22/23 is best is a massive compliment to Wenger, but also a joke.

Arteta assembled his team 19/20 to 22/23 with second biggest club investment in Europe.
7-A9-AEA4-F-0-D84-4895-AA84-46-BDC2-B652-F2.jpg


Wenger assembled his team 04/05 to 07/08 with the 86th biggest investment in Europe behind Hull City and he still got top 4. he was an insane manager. People like @Jury and DT slamming him for not winning trophies never understood.
7-F902282-598-F-4-F16-A7-F6-72253-AD6578-F.jpg
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
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Country: Wales
Can't give you Eboue at RM though, no chance he was better than Rosicky. In fact one of the big reasons we tailed off is because we had no depth and he had to play there.

Eboue was starting against Man Utd the first time we played them. He wasn’t an emergency cover.

The team played better when he locked down that right wing with Sagna.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Its an interesting discussion to be had IMO. What would happen if we put our 2007/08 team into a time machine, and bring them into the 2022/23 season. Fully fit, and able to compete for an entire season. Or if you’d like go and get one of the 2001/02 or 2003/04 sides.

How would they do today?

The bigger theme here for me is the move from Wenger’s influence on the game, namely a free-er style within a framework. To the more micro managed Guardiola influenced game of today.

I genuinely think they wouldn’t do as well as some people here think. Unpopular opinion I’m sure but the game has changed too much tactically. 442? No chance. This is no slight on wenger, it’s just why I don’t like these sort of comparisons to the past. There’s so much more data available to managers these days…

That fact that posters are even discussing which side 07/08 or 22/23 is best is a massive compliment to Wenger, but also a joke.

Arteta assembled his team 19/20 to 22/23 with second biggest club investment in Europe.
7-A9-AEA4-F-0-D84-4895-AA84-46-BDC2-B652-F2.jpg


Wenger assembled his team 04/05 to 07/08 with the 86th biggest investment in Europe behind Hull City and he still got top 4. he was an insane manager. People like @Jury and DT slamming him for not winning trophies never understood.
7-F902282-598-F-4-F16-A7-F6-72253-AD6578-F.jpg

Wengers accomplishments with his budget stand clear. But when someone just asks “which team is better” money shouldn’t factor into that conversation…
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
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Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Eboue was starting against Man Utd the first time we played them. He wasn’t an emergency cover.

The team played better when he locked down that right wing with Sagna.
I like you @Rex Bezos. But given your views on martinelli I’m going to ignore your views on any Arsenal wingers, past or present…
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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Country: England

Player:Rice
Tbh I think that largely the comparison between the players of 07/08 and the present day is less important than the abilities of the managers.

I think you've always got to be aware of nostalgia clouding your opinions on players from past eras. I'm not saying there weren't some very good players in the side back then because there were but there was also a fair bit of dross that got significant game time.

I look at the squad and number of appearances and the likes of Almunia, Eboue, Flamini, Song, Senderos, Bendtner etc I've just never rated these guys as talents, not at the time and not now ( Maybe it's a controversial take but I never particularly rated Adebayor either, though he had a really good season that year)

It's incredible and a testament to Arsène that he managed to get some extended periods of really good football out of some bang average players.

None of those guys really did anything post Arsenal because they weren't very good tbh.

In fact I struggle to think of an established player during that era who went on to perform better as an individual
when he left Arsenal ( not talking about winning more trophies here or playing for a better overall side)

Hleb as an aside was a very good footballer, he's actually a bit unfortunate that he was kind of in the wrong era for his playstyle. If he was around today he'd get much more credit. Major career mistake leaving Arsenal though.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Country: England

Player:Saliba
Wengers accomplishments with his budget stand clear. But when someone just asks “which team is better” money shouldn’t factor into that conversation…
Suppose you’re right, people are discussing whether a souped up Ford Fiesta driven by Hamilton could beat a F1 Ferrari driven by a novice. Interesting though, and I wouldn’t like to bet on it.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
Trusted ⭐

Country: Wales
Tbh I think that largely the comparison between the players of 07/08 and the present day is less important than the abilities of the managers.

I think you've always got to be aware of nostalgia clouding your opinions on players from past eras. I'm not saying there weren't some very good players in the side back then because there were but there was also a fair bit of dross that got significant game time.

I look at the squad and number of appearances and the likes of Almunia, Eboue, Flamini, Song, Senderos, Bendtner etc I've just never rated these guys as talents, not at the time and not now ( Maybe it's a controversial take but I never particularly rated Adebayor either, though he had a really good season that year)

It's incredible and a testament to Arsène that he managed to get some extended periods of really good football out of some bang average players.

None of those guys really did anything post Arsenal because they weren't very good tbh.

In fact I struggle to think of an established player during that era who went on to perform better as an individual
when he left Arsenal ( not talking about winning more trophies here or playing for a better overall side)

Hleb as an aside was a very good footballer, he's actually a bit unfortunate that he was kind of in the wrong era for his playstyle. If he was around today he'd get much more credit. Major career mistake leaving Arsenal though.

Adebayor scored 24 goals in the league. That’s a mental take.

Flamini was boss that year and was pretty good at Milan. By the time we picked him up again he was pretty much finished but in that first spell he was quality.

The other guys you’ve listed weren’t really racking up the minutes apart from Almunia.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
There was less focus on squad depth back then, largely because you could not ever name 5 subs on the bench (might have changed soon after can't remember what year). So obviously comparing overall squads is pointless. Van Persie, Adebayor, Hlev, Fabregas, Rosicky and even a young Walcott. That's a lot of attacking and creative talent. While Clichy-Gallas-Toure-Sagna worked pretty well that year.

With the current squad you're still largely talking in potential, but we've had sides with potential in the past too. 10-11 springs to mind.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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Country: England

Player:Rice
Adebayor scored 24 goals in the league. That’s a mental take.

Flamini was boss that year and was pretty good at Milan. By the time we picked him up again he was pretty much finished but in that first spell he was quality.

The other guys you’ve listed weren’t really racking up the minutes apart from Almunia.

Abebayor is in the context of going from watching the likes of Bergkamp, Anelka and Henry up front. That's very high standards admittedly but he was never that level of player and I think his career post Arsenal kind of backs that up. Stylistically I just couldn't take to him, particularly after losing Henry in the previous summer.

Flamini is the same issue for me. Gilberto was getting phased out by this stage and Flamini was fine but he wasn't fit to lace the boots of the player Gilberto was.

Could say the same for Clichy. Decent player but going from A. Cole to him was like going from a fillet steak to a pub burger. It's fine but you're not going to get too excited over a downgrade.

Maybe I'm being harsh but in this era I saw great / legendary players being replaced by good / decent ones. It's only 3-4 years after the Invincibles but It felt like the heartbeat of that great side had already gone.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
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Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Suppose you’re right, people are discussing whether a souped up Ford Fiesta driven by Hamilton could beat a F1 Ferrari driven by a novice. Interesting though, and I wouldn’t like to bet on it.
Now this is a hypothetical I can get behind. Hamilton would win, the novice would crash the F1 car at turn 1..,
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Adebayor scored 24 goals in the league. That’s a mental take.

Flamini was boss that year and was pretty good at Milan. By the time we picked him up again he was pretty much finished but in that first spell he was quality.

The other guys you’ve listed weren’t really racking up the minutes apart from Almunia.
The goals don’t tell the full story. Adebayor was being serviced by an absolute machine in terms of chance creation. I remember him as being wasteful if anything.
 

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