Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[samspade]

I think the trick here is to realise that you don’t need to be “objective” about favouritism. In fact that statement probably doesn’t even make sense. You don’t need to justify your favourites. We probably feel the need to around here specifically just because we’re constantly asked to justify our opinions by a blood thirsty mob but we shouldn’t need to. I don’t care if Tets wins all 38 games next season, for me Wenger and his Invinvibles will always be my favourite, just because of what it meant to me at that point in my life.

You don’t need to “put them in a box” and label it with 90 points. Let them out the box and let them rule as (benevolent) Kings. They were the best and will always be the best. Why? Just because, that’s why.

I think this gets near the heart of a lot of these debates. In my opinion, football has moved on and it’s quite possible this Arsenal gets to a tactical level that eclipses the invincibles. But in terms of how the invincibles made people feel this team has much further to go. The invincibles and certain players among them have made an indelible mark on the mind of fans all over the world. The pose that Bergkamp struck when he hit the ball at times, Henry in motion, these things just stick with you, they inspire awe in even our rivals in a way that giggs, lampard, Dalglish etc. just can’t compare.

Even so, I believe something very, very special is happening here, and I think there’s a small chance of us genuinely cementing our selves among Europe’s elite. I’m extremely interested in how our cl campaign goes next year providing something disastrous doesn’t happen. We could make a aesthetic and competetitve impact again.

 

[jones]

Maybe, but it's just how I feel about Arsenal...I loved everything about our 2004 team, want it to always be seen as our "number 1"

Plus it's not like Arteta and our players (or any future managers and squads) can't be successful, or I hope they fail.

I just don't want to see them go unbeaten, I still want to see them win loads of trophies here (if possible!)

I'm saying this in a non hostile, friendly way man you're a mess. I never knew it was possible to be a nostalgia addict but I hope you get the help you need.

Conte won the league with more points than the Invincibles, with a band of workhorses mercenaries and select few star performers. Forget Arsenal fans no PL watching supporter of any team would rate them higher than our 2004 team.

 

[jones]

Funny how of all posters people pleaser Riouberto Martinez comes in here ****ting the bed with a post neither side of the divide could agree with.

 

[Makingtrax]

Forget Arsenal fans no PL watching supporter of any team would rate them higher than our 2004 team.

Many different teams have won the league including a freak run by Leicester City. But no team has remained unbeaten in the Prem since it’s inception, other than Arsenal. Not losing a single game in 38 matches is impossibly difficult, as 30 of years of trying, and in the last few years, record spending on some of the best players in the world can testify to.

 

[grange]

neither side of the divide could agree with.

There is no divide. All are freely welcome to come on AM and be Arteta fans.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I think for those who dont like Arteta, and there is indeed space for these folks, its important for Arsenal to not overachieve this season. Because then the arguments will become unbearable for you guys.

I think a top four finish and around 80 point season should be bearable all round. Keep the Arteta-INs in check, and the Arteta-OUTs calm, a ceasefire if you wish.

Anything north or south of that, and we are back to bullets everywhere.

Honestly it's kind of silly to me we have to hope that Arteta doesn't do 'Too well' just to not put anyones noses out

If Arteta does well, Arsenal will do well. That's what really matters. Hoping Arteta doesn't do too well is hoping that Arsenal don't do too well. I can't get on board with that. And I say that not really believing that this Arsenal unit ( including the manager) are good enough to challenge for the title at this time.

Arteta deserves a lot of praise at the moment and he deserved a lot of the crap he has previously got. You live in the here and now though.

To anyone not an Arsenal fan it would seem ludicrous he has to keep this millstone around his neck for bad decisions he made 18 months ago when we're currently 5 points clear at the top of the table. I struggle to imagine any other fanbase behaving this way with a manager in the same situation.

Forget Arteta, if people can't be happy or fairly optimistic when Arsenal are top at Christmas, I really don't get what happiness they'll ever get out of supporting the club.

On both sides this has been made way too much about Arteta anyway. Yeah, he's a fairly big cog in the wheel but it's about the club doing well, not him.

At it's core it's not even really about Arteta I don't believe, it's just tribalism and splintering the Arsenal fanbase into cliques. We went through this with Wenger and that was a total nightmare, we don't want to repeat that toxicity in the fanbase again.

 

[SA Gunner]

You're reaching here, SA.

In both cases, might I add. And by a seriously large amount.

People have mostly moved on from any of this and yet it keeps being brought back up. Aside from people who should be on everybody's ignore list, everyone is happy with out season.

I'd wager that not a single person would seriously complain if we over achieved and somehow won the title aside from normal forum banter or the aformentioned ignorables.

Call it reaching, that's all good man.

Wait until the tide turns during the season, I'm pretty confident the narratives will start gaining momentum again. I'm not an "I told you so" guy, so I wont say anything about it. But keep your eyes on this place.

 

[SA Gunner]

Disappointed that you’ve singled me out in that way. Unlike a lot of this forum under Arsène, I never posted about wanting us to lose matches ever. And always celebrated wins in the match threads under every manager. Shocking post.

Sorry buddy, its a rough post in your case but unfortunately that's the cold reality of this place as far as Im concerned.

Its not a case of being disparaging towards you, or @drippin personally. I have said that I think such factionalism and bias (without polluting this place) has its necessary place at Arsenal.

Arteta will forever be a polarising figure, even at our best moments and worst moments, both of which will still come. Simply put... we can be Champions League defenders, successfully defending the title, and we will STILL have Arteta-OUTs here. I'm that sure.

But most importantly, Im not here to disparage you my dude.

 

[Makingtrax]

Honestly it's kind of silly to me we have to hope that Arteta doesn't do 'Too well' just to not put anyones noses out

If Arteta does well, Arsenal will do well. That's what really matters. Hoping Arteta doesn't do too well is hoping that Arsenal don't do too well. I can't get on board with that. And I say that not really believing that this Arsenal unit ( including the manager) are good enough to challenge for the title at this time.

Arteta deserves a lot of praise at the moment and he deserved a lot of the crap he has previously got. You live in the here and now though.

To anyone not an Arsenal fan it would seem ludicrous he has to keep this millstone around his neck for bad decisions he made 18 months ago when we're currently 5 points clear at the top of the table. I struggle to imagine any other fanbase behaving this way with a manager in the same situation.

Forget Arteta, if people can't be happy or fairly optimistic when Arsenal are top at Christmas, I really don't get what happiness they'll ever get out of supporting the club.

On both sides this has been made way too much about Arteta anyway. Yeah, he's a fairly big cog in the wheel but it's about the club doing well, not him.

At it's core it's not even really about Arteta I don't believe, it's just tribalism and splintering the Arsenal fanbase into cliques. We went through this with Wenger and that was a total nightmare, we don't want to repeat that toxicity in the fanbase again.

Pretty much agree with this. We all love the club and in particular the players. It’s about the team, and at the moment they’re riding high. Arteta’s got his act together, the owners have spent a lot, the buys this year have been excellent, and we’re doing very well. Surely everybody’s happy with that. There can’t be any complaints. And in fact I haven’t even seen any, other than the ones Arteta fanatics are making up that others are supposedly thinking.

 

[SA Gunner]

Honestly it's kind of silly to me we have to hope that Arteta doesn't do 'Too well' just to not put anyones noses out

If Arteta does well, Arsenal will do well. That's what really matters. Hoping Arteta doesn't do too well is hoping that Arsenal don't do too well. I can't get on board with that. And I say that not really believing that this Arsenal unit ( including the manager) are good enough to challenge for the title at this time.

Arteta deserves a lot of praise at the moment and he deserved a lot of the crap he has previously got. You live in the here and now though.

To anyone not an Arsenal fan it would seem ludicrous he has to keep this millstone around his neck for bad decisions he made 18 months ago when we're currently 5 points clear at the top of the table. I struggle to imagine any other fanbase behaving this way with a manager in the same situation.

Forget Arteta, if people can't be happy or fairly optimistic when Arsenal are top at Christmas, I really don't get what happiness they'll ever get out of supporting the club.

On both sides this has been made way too much about Arteta anyway. Yeah, he's a fairly big cog in the wheel but it's about the club doing well, not him.

At it's core it's not even really about Arteta I don't believe, it's just tribalism and splintering the Arsenal fanbase into cliques. We went through this with Wenger and that was a total nightmare, we don't want to repeat that toxicity in the fanbase again.

Of course it sounds ridiculous to read or even have to say that. But that is the reality of the situation here at Arsenal Mania.

Thankfully, for the moment at least, this has become an island in that respect. Simply because we are doing so well that it would be absurd to hold an anti-Arteta agenda now. But even with our current form and prospects, do I think its a bit premature to think that the underlying biases and inbuilt alignings will just fall away because we are doing well.

Here's a thought experiment for us all. Look around and see who is no longer with us on a regular basis. Now, lets wait until we hit our next rough patch where the mood drops.. and watch closely again. Im almost guaranteed that we will see a similar "Say Yes" type comeback, perhaps using the same LVG apology video.

I said this before... it takes a lot to sway ones opinion and admit you were wrong on your previous position, even more so if you do it multiple times. Its actually seen as a weakness, when in actual fact its a sign of immense intellectual honesty and maturity. I dont think such maturity is present on AM or anywhere else for that matter. And that's not an insult to the posters here, its just a reality I've established from my experiences.

 

[Rex Stone]

Absolute ghost town in here until this

This thread since the World Cup began

 

[El Duderino]

Of course it sounds ridiculous to read or even have to say that. But that is the reality of the situation here at Arsenal Mania.

Thankfully, for the moment at least, this has become an island in that respect. Simply because we are doing so well that it would be absurd to hold an anti-Arteta agenda now. But even with our current form and prospects, do I think its a bit premature to think that the underlying biases and inbuilt alignings will just fall away because we are doing well.

Here's a thought experiment for us all. Look around and see who is no longer with us on a regular basis. Now, lets wait until we hit our next rough patch where the mood drops.. and watch closely again. Im almost guaranteed that we will see a similar "Say Yes" type comeback, perhaps using the same LVG apology video.

I said this before... it takes a lot to sway ones opinion and admit you were wrong on your previous position, even more so if you do it multiple times. Its actually seen as a weakness, when in actual fact its a sign of immense intellectual honesty and maturity. I dont think such maturity is present on AM or anywhere else for that matter. And that's not an insult to the posters here, its just a reality I've established from my experiences.

But isn't your whole point was that you don't want Arteta to over achieve because some people wouldn't be happy or not give him his due?

 

[SA Gunner]

But isn't your whole point was that you don't want Arteta to over achieve because some people wouldn't be happy or not give him his due?

Yes, I believe that man.

Its a ridiculous point to illustrate the level of factionalism we have as a support base.

The underlying point Im making is that Arteta will never be accepted on one end and always on the other. Its not about Arsenal anymore, its about the history of Arteta's time with us. It has created positions within our supporter base that will never change.

 

[Makingtrax]

Sorry buddy, its a rough post in your case but unfortunately that's the cold reality of this place as far as Im concerned.

Its not a case of being disparaging towards you, or @drippin personally. I have said that I think such factionalism and bias (without polluting this place) has its necessary place at Arsenal.

Arteta will forever be a polarising figure, even at our best moments and worst moments, both of which will still come. Simply put... we can be Champions League defenders, successfully defending the title, and we will STILL have Arteta-OUTs here. I'm that sure.

But most importantly, Im not here to disparage you my dude.

Arteta‘s not a polarising figure at the moment bro. Banter aside, we all believe he’s doing very well currently.

The only disagreement is how we got to this position. Some of us believe he made numerous mistakes and with big help from owner investment and the time he was given, he’s come through the rough times a better manager. Others think it is the culmination of some pre ordained plan that just needed some clearing up after previous managers to come to fruition. I totally refute the latter, as much as I did that Arsène‘s continuous top 4 on his spend was underachieving. But we’re all happy we’re in the right place now. Surely.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Of course it sounds ridiculous to read or even have to say that. But that is the reality of the situation here at Arsenal Mania.

Thankfully, for the moment at least, this has become an island in that respect. Simply because we are doing so well that it would be absurd to hold an anti-Arteta agenda now. But even with our current form and prospects, do I think its a bit premature to think that the underlying biases and inbuilt alignings will just fall away because we are doing well.

Here's a thought experiment for us all. Look around and see who is no longer with us on a regular basis. Now, lets wait until we hit our next rough patch where the mood drops.. and watch closely again. Im almost guaranteed that we will see a similar "Say Yes" type comeback, perhaps using the same LVG apology video.

I said this before... it takes a lot to sway ones opinion and admit you were wrong on your previous position. If you can do that, then great, power to you.. But trust me when I say its a rarity.

I agree with your sentiment generally but I don't think that anyone has been proven right or wrong or needs to admit being wrong or gloat over being proven right.

For example I have been fairly solidly pro Arteta but there were two times (I believe) that I called for him to be sacked, I still don't think I was wrong to do that, given the results and performance levels at the time.
I couldn't predict how things would change, I just based my thoughts on what I was seeing at the time. I'd likely do the same again if the same sort of situation arises.

It's like the fans who really didn't like Arteta and wanted him sacked who have now come round to rating him, it would be kind of silly for them to admit they were wrong or anything because they weren't really. They've just evolved their views on Arteta based on changing results and performances. That to me is logical.

Really the only two groups I can't really respect are the 100% Arteta lovers and the 100% Arteta haters. To me if you haven't been both pro and anti Arteta at some points you've not been evaluating results and Arteta anywhere close to objectively.

 

[Rex Stone]

I said this before... it takes a lot to sway ones opinion and admit you were wrong on your previous position, even more so if you do it multiple times. It’s actually seen as a weakness, when in actual fact it’s a sign of immense intellectual honesty and maturity.

Ahhh you think Bezos is your ally? You merely adopted the Jeff. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see consistency until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!

 

[SA Gunner]

Arteta‘s not a polarising figure at the moment bro. Banter aside, we all believe he’s doing very well currently.

The only disagreement is how we got to this position. Some of us believe he made numerous mistakes and with big help from owner investment and the time he was given, he’s come through the rough times a better manager. Others think it is the culmination of some pre ordained plan that just needed some clearing up after previous managers to come to fruition. I totally refute the latter, as much as I did that Arsène‘s continuous top 4 on his spend was underachieving. But we’re all happy we’re in the right place now. Surely.

I'd argue he isnt a polarizing figure now, because of our performance levels. You would be silly to take up a negative position at the moment. Just like it was silly to take up a pro-Arteta stance when we introduced Smith Rowe against Chelsea in December 2020.

That is also why a lot of Arteta's serious detractors are completely missing now. I wont name names because its not nice doing that (again, my bad bro), but they are all gone because I say they are incapable of changing their position, no matter what. Apply your mind to what Im saying in this paragraph, look for those posters... most of them are completely gone.

The theory will be tested once we are in trouble again. Im not an "I told you so" guy, but Im pretty sure on my thesis here. So lets see how it plays out.

 

[El Duderino]

Ahhh you think Bezos is your ally? You merely adopted the Jeff. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see consistency until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Bezos the wise?

 

[Rex Stone]

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Bezos the wise?

Only Sith Lord is Elon Dusted. Jeff and his shining bald head is a true Jedi Knight.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Victoria Concordia Crescit - get with the program.