Mikel Arteta: Blinded By The Lights

What does Mikel need to do to keep his job in your opinion?


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Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
Transition backwards it seems. If the Kroenke's want to safeguard their investment, they would be wise to replace Arteta and also revamp the management team at Arsenal.
I strongly disagree it's a transition they need to back arteta and see where the club is in a couple of years. Sometimes u need to take a step back and see the big picture.
Not a fan of the kroenkes but at least they aren't gonna listen to reactionary entitled ranting fools on the internet. If these sort had their wish Arteta would have been potted in Nov and we may have got the Southampton or Wolves manager.
 

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Women
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At the end of the day the club is paying Willian the equivalent of 220kpw. I’m pretty sure footballers get paid monthly, the weekly wage thing is just tradition.

You can spin it however you want but the fact of the matter is that Willian is costing us 34M.

11.4M a year
900k a month
220k a week.

It doesn’t matter how much of it is sign-on, how much of it is base salary. Arsenal FC are giving him the figures quoted above. Figures we can all agree he doesn’t deserve.
 

El Duderino

99 Problems But A Mitch Ain't One
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To me when it comes to Willian, I was mildly pro the signing at the time. My gripe was more with the contract length than anything.

At the time we signed Willian we did need a more experienced wide man / AM. Who were our options there? We didn't have a real 10 in the squad. There was a real lack of experience in the squad in terms of wide men. Saka, Nelson were both kids. Ödegaard wasn't here. Pepe lacked experience / consistency. ESR was injured / not considered anything more than a promising kid. Martinelli was a kid with a long term injury. All kids apart from Pepe who was still a developing player himself. Experience was needed.

Adding a high quality, PL experienced player like Willian to the mix did make sense at the time, I'd strongly argue.

It's fair to criticise Arteta for signing him in hindsight and Willian for his performances. He's been underwhelming overall, but not awful. That's my issue.

People massaging his signing on fee into his wages to make it look worse and saying some of his assists aren't 'real' because they were easy passes is where it gets silly and agenda driven.

Every decent player gets a big signing on fee when they move on a free. Most don't get it added into their weekly wage by the fans.

I could also go through Özil, Fabregas' and Cazorla's assists and start knocking off any simple passes off their record, but that would be ridiculous, the same way it should be for Willian.

The assist thing is silly, tbh. Yeah, KT did a lot of the work for one of them, as did Auba... but Lacazette made his last goal and it was a simple pass from Nico. If you're counting one, you have to count the others imo.

What bugs me with Willian is he doesn't really pass the eye test. He's had two games where he looked the part, Fullham and Leicester, but those were the exceptions to the rule of him being mediocre at best..

They way he's been playing is just not what the team needs, he doesn't run, is not really taking on players... Big L for the club.
 

Trilly

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To me when it comes to Willian, I was mildly pro the signing at the time. My gripe was more with the contract length than anything.

At the time we signed Willian we did need a more experienced wide man / AM. Who were our options there? We didn't have a real 10 in the squad. There was a real lack of experience in the squad in terms of wide men. Saka, Nelson were both kids. Ödegaard wasn't here. Pepe lacked experience / consistency. ESR was injured / not considered anything more than a promising kid. Martinelli was a kid with a long term injury. All kids apart from Pepe who was still a developing player himself. Experience was needed.

Adding a high quality, PL experienced player like Willian to the mix did make sense at the time, I'd strongly argue.

It's fair to criticise Arteta for signing him in hindsight and Willian for his performances. He's been underwhelming overall, but not awful. That's my issue.

People massaging his signing on fee into his wages to make it look worse and saying some of his assists aren't 'real' because they were easy passes is where it gets silly and agenda driven.

Every decent player gets a big signing on fee when they move on a free. Most don't get it added into their weekly wage by the fans.

I could also go through Özil, Fabregas' and Cazorla's assists and start knocking off any simple passes off their record, but that would be ridiculous, the same way it should be for Willian.
My issue here is that Arteta seems to have been caught by surprise by ESR, Saka and Pepe’s development this season.

Is that the guy we want managing us? Somebody who doesn’t know what he has and just looks to buy without looking at internal solutions?

Maybe he was just unlucky but there seems to be a theme of him now knowing what he’s got and/or giving up on players prematurely.

We’ve discussed the assist thing before anyway, if you end up with the most assists in the league/your team it’s not by fluke. As @El Duderino its more about how he’s failed the eye test 99% of the time.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
There definitely has been a culture at Arsenal to fix, but the problem is it is fine for Pep or Mourinho at super-rich clubs that can throw hundreds of millions away here and there by marginalising big assets, flogging them off, and replacing them with expensive replacements in a compressed period of time. At other clubs, including ours, there is a pragmatic balance to be found. We can’t afford to depreciate assets through an aggressive pathway without consequences felt financially in a way City or United wouldn’t.

A lot of this I think is minimising depreciation of assets you want to get rid of mid-season. Quietly just get things done ruthlessly and efficiently during the transfer windows. You can see how Mourinho is struggling at Spuds because he would like to turnover around six players in his first team squad asap, but he can’t, and his lack of flexibility is resulting in a nightmare for Spuds where assets have been depreciated left rotting on the bench a lot. I’m not saying Arteta is as bad as Mourinho in terms of rigidity, but it is the subtlety of understanding Arsenal cannot do exactly the same things a club like City can.
I think that is a fair comment in some ways but we need a change of culture. Arteta has tried to do that to best of his ability and has not replaced the whole side and been able to spend massive money. I think he has been quite ruthless though he has also tried to work with the players he has like xhaka Pepe. He had brought in some decent additions while also bringing on the youth. Even the much maligned Willian in a poor season has produced more than Özil did for the last 18 months.
I think he is doing a decent if not spectacular job given the hand he was dealt while having a vision for the future.
There are few managers in the prem I would want to swap for him tbh.
I doubt many others would hacev
 

Blood on the Tracks

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The assist thing is silly, tbh. Yeah, KT did a lot of the work for one of them, as did Auba... but Lacazette made his last goal and it was a simple pass from Nico. If you're counting one, you have to count the others imo.

What bugs me with Willian is he doesn't really pass the eye test. He's had two games where he looked the part, Fullham and Leicester, but those were the exceptions to the rule of him being mediocre at best..

They way he's been playing is just not what the team needs, he doesn't run, is not really taking on players... Big L for the club.

I'm sure you've seen more of Willian over the course of his career than me with him being Brazilian. So I'd be interested in your perspective.

From what I've seen of him over the years and at Arsenal he's pretty much the antithesis of what I think of as a Brazilian winger.

He's almost robotic in the things he does on the ball to me, there's not a lot of flair or individuality there to me, so I find him quite a boring player to watch, irrespective of his qualities.

His CV and everything speaks for itself but for me I've always viewed him as a player who's stats exceed his performances generally. It's weird.

How highly is he thought of in Brazil?
 

El Duderino

99 Problems But A Mitch Ain't One
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I'm sure you've seen more of Willian over the course of his career than me with him being Brazilian. So I'd be interested in your perspective.

From what I've seen of him over the years and at Arsenal he's pretty much the antithesis of what I think of as a Brazilian winger.

He's almost robotic in the things he does on the ball to me, there's not a lot of flair or individuality there to me, so I find him quite a boring player to watch, irrespective of his qualities.

His CV and everything speaks for itself but for me I've always viewed him as a player who's stats exceed his performances generally. It's weird.

How highly is he thought of in Brazil?

I've talked about this before, he just seems like a very meek individual. He's not a protagonist at all, he's a supporting actor to other leading men, which is what I found REALLY odd about him being brought into Arsenal and spoken by management the way he was.

If anything, we needed a LW, having sold Iwobi and since Saka was on the way up but not playing at his current level yet, and Willian was never that brilliant at LW.

Even at Chelsea he was like what you describe, he had the stats, but was very much hot and cold with his performances. A passanger for a lot of games and turn up for some.
 

Kav

Well-Known Member
With respect to Arteta’s suitability for the job of leading us back into the champions league and challenging for the title. I have little confidence in his ability to do so. I do not think he has the necessary traits that successful Managers of the past and present possess to get this Arsenal team to where it wants to go.

Ultimately it is about what kind of project the ownership and board are currently undertaking. If it is truly a long term project the. I do understand the need to give the current manager time to implement his ideas and to give him the resources he needs to put his vision into practice.

My concern is that I am seeing mixed signals from the club. They say it is a long term project but all of the decisions they have made since Arteta came in have been short term and few have been positives.

1. Signings of Luiz, Mari, Cedric, Willian and Partey - all short term signings meant to address squad depth, balance and improve quality in the squad.

2. Firing of entire scouting network- Clubs scout to find talented youngsters to develop it is often the more cost effective way to acquire talent. Also when done properly clubs scan make significant profits from selling these youngsters.

3. Laying off of staff to address financial difficulties- This suggest the financial picture is much more murkier than the club is letting us know.

4. Taking out additional loans to secure operations. - Similar to the point above

Why are 3 &4 relevant? It goes to the impetus for the club to keep making these short term decisions because it is my opinion that our financial situation is a lot more dire than we are led to believe and that we actually NEED champions league football sooner than later.
Thus the facade that this is a long term project is truly broken away when you look at how the club position itself.

So my question is, if it is a long term project, why not focus on developing what you already have instead of acquiring aging talent that may not get you to where you want and will be difficult to move on?

If it is a long term project then why are 5 out of the 7 signings made under Arteta over the age of 27?
Do note I have not included the loan signings of (Ryan and Ødegaard ).

When taken all together it is clear to me that there is a strong urgency to get back into the CL as soon as possible and that this had been made known to Arteta. Therefore if that is the true objective then it may suit the club to hire someone who will do better than Arteta and who has more experience achieving goals.

If it is truly a long term project I would be happy to get behind the manager but he’s also not doing anything to suggest he’s building for the long term. He has two loan signings taking up minutes that could have gone to the development of our own academy players. He’s signed and retained two players over 32 over the last 2 years. Neither of which have been instrumental to our play this season. He has stated his aversion to playing too many young players and he has allowed the mediocrity of senior players (Bellerin, Xhaka, Willian) to persist for far too long when they were in bad form and showed no consistency but the moment a young player didn’t set the world alight he was yanked and dumped on the bench or reserves.

Arteta is playing and coaching for the now. The results right now suggest that he’s not good enough. I can only judge him on what I see from him not what I think he will do in the future. Based on current results and performances he is not the one who should be leading this great club.
 

Blood on the Tracks

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I've talked about this before, he just seems like a very meek individual. He's not a protagonist at all, he's a supporting actor to other leading men, which is what I found REALLY odd about him being brought into Arsenal and spoken by management the way he was.

If anything, we needed a LW, having sold Iwobi and since Saka was on the way up but not playing at his current level yet, and Willian was never that brilliant at LW.

Even at Chelsea he was like what you describe, he had the stats, but was very much hot and cold with his performances. A passanger for a lot of games and turn up for some.

Yeah, he does seem like quite a timid character. Whatever you think of Luiz as a player it's clear that he brings a lot of personality, leadership to the squad. You can't really say the same for Willian.

The way you lay it out it doesn't sound likes he's too dissimilar to Özil in terms of his personality type, obviously inferior to Özil as a talent though.

Doesn't like being the main man, prefers being a supporting cast member and flitting in and out of games.

It's not ideal. It's weird because Arteta made a big deal about him being a role model / leader for the younger players and it seems like he's just not that type of guy. Which is fair enough, everyone has different personalities but maybe he wasn't the sort of guy we really needed.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Established Member
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Absolute load of tosh. The only thing that people were against was the 3 year deal, and that's the only way we couldve got him. As a player and coming off the season he had for Chelsea nobody can deny it was a good addition to the squad. End of story bro, look at the season he had for Chelsea and tell me its a **** signing at the time. You cant.

As for Cedric it's different to the players you mentioned due to Cedric being a competent backup at full back. Mustafi isn't a competent anything.

Let's be real you'll just say anything to bash Arteta and the club because you have an agenda. Why not just chill out, support the club, stop being a poo bag.
I was satisfied enough with Willian signing as I thought he'd inject that little bit of attacking thrust, guile, intelligence and experience in to the side. The rumours were that he was a cheap deal in terms of wages to. I had major reservations about the length of the contract and the fact that he was ex Chelsea. Hindsight as you say is great but we would have been better offering two years with a club option of a third than three whole years. We just caved under our own self inflicted pressure and saddled ourself with more old and useless rubbish.
 

CaseUteinberger

A-M's brilliant, yet humble Xhaka-stan 😍
No it wasn't, literally 99% of the fan base were against it.
Come on! That is re-writing history by a mile. Sure, it wasn't Partey level support for the signing, but a fair amount of fans and pundits were positive towards the signing as far as I recall. I personally don't think I was against it as far as I can recall. Guess it hasn't turned out great to say the least, but win some and lose some I guess...
 

Camus

Well-Known Member
Woah. This is news to me, I always thought the Willian deal was near enough universally not wanted by our fanbase. Even opposition fans were in unison at how bad a deal it was going to be. Only dissenting voices seemed to be from Chelsea fans that had a soft spot for him because he'd been at the club for 7 years.

Even without the figures involved I've always seen Willian as a nothing player. He's had a number of terrible, terrible joke seasons for Chelsea and even his "best" seasons haven't been all that to write home about.
 

CaseUteinberger

A-M's brilliant, yet humble Xhaka-stan 😍
Doesn't like being the main man, prefers being a supporting cast member and flitting in and out of games.
Funnily this is exactly what a Brazilian colleague of mine said when we signed him and I asked his thoughts on Willian. I ignored it as I mainly saw him on Chelsea highlights and that had formed much of my opinion on him.
 

Arsenal1508

Mods are unethical! Özil, come assist me please!
I still won't believe in him based on our league season but the guy has literally met his objectives (just not the way we expected).

I think the fairest way would be to let him keep his job, albeit on a very tight leash, I'd want him gone at the first sign of him showing that this current season is his level. In addition to that I'd give him less control of transfers. Partey and Gabriel were both initiated by Raul. Arteta did the Willian deal all by himself and it's looking like a monumental waste of money.
This.

Arteta needs to go back to Coach. Vinai was an idiot to promote him.
 

OnlyOne

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You’ve given me a wobble now. I don’t think the EL is in the bag at all.

We need to get 6th place in the league ffs.

I don't want Europa next season if we we go out, I hope we finish 7th/8th.
 

mirrorstare

Well-Known Member
Results keep giving him a chance, that Newcastle win not only takes away distance from the top 4 trophy, it also demoralizes our next couple of opponents that might feel themselves now truly doomed to relegation

Feel with a better manager we would have been in the top 4 fight but with the amount of luck we're having maybe we would have been a clear 2nd.

Next season he has no preseason or covid excuses but neither do the other teams, who won't run into the crazy injury crises that helped make the table look like it currently does at the moment. If he has a bad start I just hope we wake up before AFCON just becomes the next excuse.
 

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