Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[albakos]

If people don't think he's a good manager why would Arteta winning the Europa League fundamentally change their view? Okay he'll have met his objectives this season but we're already seeing his detractors say the FA Cup win was a fluke, why not the same with the Europa League if he wins it? Maybe he's just a lucky cup manager?

If we do end up winning the Europa League, which is a bit if admittedly, he'll have won 2 major trophies in 18 months and got us back into the CL. Whatever anyone things about player recruitment, tactics, Artetas personality or philosophy you couldn't score his spell here to date as anything under an 8 out of 10 in terms of actual achievements and goals reached.

If he wins EL and gets us back to CL, then he buys himself more time here and deservedly so, but massive improvements need to be made in terms of performances as well as results.

What I say is that EL is a critical point for him and the only measure for which any decision about his future should be based on.

Win Europa: He gets to make his decisions in summer on player transfers, but he is also given a clear set of objectives that he must meet in next season like:

• Finish in CL places in PL,
• Make it past CL group stage,
• Have a decent run in domestic cups,
• More minutes for younger players etc...

Lose Europa: He's sacked!

 

[SingmeasongSong]

We dont have to say Arteta is the new Nagelsmann or so, but people who wont at least admit that he was a way better choice than Mourinho, who quite a few really wanted, are just being brutally dishonest.

 

[Iceman10]

If he wins EL and gets us back to CL, then he buys himself more time here and deservedly so, but massive improvements need to be made in terms of performances as well as results.

What I say is that EL is a critical point for him and the only measure for which any decision about his future should be based on.

Win Europa: He gets to make his decisions in summer on player transfers, but he is also given a clear set of objectives that he must meet in next season like:

• Finish in CL places in PL,
• Make it past CL group stage,
• Have a decent run in domestic cups,
• More minutes for younger players etc...

Lose Europa: He's sacked!

Yes, it is the same with me. Arsenal is not going to fire a manager after winning the EL, but if he does win the EL there won't exactly be a clean slate for him. I don't know if this is harsh, but we do need to consider he is pretty lucky to have not been sacked already, because at most comparable clubs he would have been.

I captured all of this regarding winning a cup competition in the post linked below. I had plenty of patience prior to WHU/Liverpool games but sharply turned after them. Finishing 6th or 7th (if that qualifies for EL) should not have been hard, but Arteta getting in the way of himself with certain decisions could not be ignored any longer. We've since dropped points against Fulham also.

Post in thread 'Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel' Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel

 

[GoonerJeeves]

If he wins EL and gets us back to CL, then he buys himself more time here and deservedly so, but massive improvements need to be made in terms of performances as well as results.

What I say is that EL is a critical point for him and the only measure for which any decision about his future should be based on.

Win Europa: He gets to make his decisions in summer on player transfers, but he is also given a clear set of objectives that he must meet in next season like:

• Finish in CL places in PL,
• Make it past CL group stage,
• Have a decent run in domestic cups,
• Introduce younger players more etc...

Lose Europa: He's sacked!

I think the club will give him more time than that. The crux will most likely come in the autumn/december this year. With fans back in the stadium, and two years in the job (two summer windows as well), it will be time to deliver. If we are in the same situation as now, he will be sacked.

Two years in the job, that is a fair crack these days. I am quite certain the club will not sack him after this season, no matter what the results.

 

[Penn_]

Isn’t a lack of pressure an issue across the club, not just Arteta.

Vinai deals with commercial revenue right? Why are Tottenham ahead of us. Edu, a last minute deal for Partey was the best he could do for a dead attack / midfield?

 

[Iceman10]

I think the club will give him more time than that. The crux will most likely come in the autumn/december this year. With fans back in the stadium, and two years in the job (two summer windows as well), it will be time to deliver. If we are in the same situation as now, he will be sacked.

Two years in the job, that is a fair crack these days. I am quite certain the club will not sack him after this season, no matter what the results.

There is what we would like to see and what we think the club will do. The former is our own independent assessments. Note Albakos's explanation above about the problem of continuation into next season (if Arteta doesn't win the EL)

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Not really into that.

Football is mainly a results-based sport and for a team as big as Arsenal the pressure to perform/win will always be big on any manager. This pressure for better results applies to even the best managers like Wenger, so there shouldn't be any leeway for Arteta nor anyone else.

I am not blinded with Arteta hate or whatever is implied, I recognize him for the fact that he wanted to trim the squad to have it more prepared for the campaign. He's made some good moves in offloading Mustafi, Sokratis, Kola and an underperforming Torreira.
But on the other side he made some pretty shocking squad management decisions as well and I will not go into that, because we'll get into an endless loop.

What it boils down to that we are on 9th and the continuous decline is there to see. This is due to many factors: inexperienced manager, covid, opposition getting better while we stagnate etc...

Arteta has had a lot of freedom with the squad decisions and wanting to put his vision on the pitch.

He made the following:

Signings he asked for: Willian , Gabriel, Partey, Ødegaard(loan), Mari, Cedric, Runarson, Ryan​

Selling: Özil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Martinez​

Loans: Guendouzi, Torreira, AMN, Willock, Saliba​

Keeping those who he wanted to continue with: Bellerin, Xhaka, Holding, Laca, Ceballos and Elneny ,​

Continuing contracts: Saka , Auba and Luiz​

Freezing, thus devaluating players: Martinelli (until late), Nelson, Nketiah, Chambers (until late)​

One cannot claim that this is not Arteta's team yet, because he was given plenty of space to maneuver around with the squad, to get some players as well as inheriting a team of decent performers with a top, top striker (Auba) in it.

Despite all of these changes, there is no improvement, there is a visible decline in results as well as performances (in the bigger picture, not just post-Boxing Day as some will have you think here).

If we think: Let's give him one final chance to see what he does in summer, then it will turn even worse. This is because if the new season starts awfully, there's another season gone and the damage will already be done.

By then if you decide to fire Arteta in mid-season you're only taking a mitigating action for the risk you have faced into, instead of having taken a preventive action (before season start) earlier on to stop that same risk from happening. Simple risk management and risk treatment decisions

The results are missing, we are in decline, so it finally boils down to that if we don't get back to CL by winning Europa, he should be sacked at end of season.

I have no issues with your post. I don’t disagree that a 9th place spot is poor. I also am not totally sold on Arteta nor was I when he was signed, but also not sure if pulling the plug will help now unless we have a proper manager lined up like Nagelsmann e.g.

Given how new Arteta is to managing I am also will to give him some extra time. Maybe he is a really good coach that is just starting out. Once the club has made the decision to go in that direction we have to accept some growing pains.

My main issue is that many have chosen the wrong villain in this move and spend all their time *****ing about Arteta when they should focus on the real problem which in Kroenke!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Well in my case, just if there was any confusion, I’m not saying he is an evil mastermind. I am saying though that he likely wouldn’t *currently* be manger of Arsenal with different owners so if anyone thinks he is with KroenkeOut that would be taking it too far, and it is natural in overall PR disasters like this one not to fight fans and the anger, but instead soothe it, the idea being to let it dissipate. That’s why in my comment I said I am sceptical of any real daylight between Arteta and the Kroenke’s.,

As an employee of the club Arteta and the players have a really fine line to walk. They by default owe their employer a certain loyalty when it comes to business decisions the ownership makes. I don’t agree personally with some decisions the company I work for makes but I wouldn’t voice them on say LinkedIn as no one else would here who works professionally.

So the fact that he is actually siding with the fans although in a circumspect way is him sticking out his neck I think. At least in my view.

 

[CountChocula]

He made the following:

Signings he asked for: Willian , Gabriel, Partey, Ødegaard(loan), Mari, Cedric, Runarson, Ryan​

Selling: Özil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Martinez​

Loans: Guendouzi, Torreira, AMN, Willock, Saliba​

Keeping those who he wanted to continue with: Bellerin, Xhaka, Holding, Laca, Ceballos and Elneny ,​

Continuing contracts: Saka , Auba and Luiz​

Freezing, thus devaluating players: Martinelli (until late), Nelson, Nketiah, Chambers (until late)​

One cannot claim that this is not Arteta's team yet, because he was given plenty of space to maneuver around with the squad, to get some players as well as inheriting a team of decent performers with a top, top striker (Auba) in it.

You mention decent performers, but how many would start in a PL top 4 side? I count Saka, Auba, Tierney, Leno/Martinez tops, which is only 4/11. With 70M last summer, he could only add Partey and Gabriel to that list, but that's only 6/11. I would not call what he inherited a team of decent performers. There's a reason Arsenal has led the league in minutes played by youth players this season, and it's the result of a squad that's been poorly managed for years and allowed to fill with overpaid dross that Arteta has had to rely on youth to such an extreme.

If you asked a neutral at the start of the season, they wouldn't say Arsenal had a Top 4 squad. It's at most Top 6. If lucky, 4-6. If unlucky (bad VAR calls, players getting sent off, injuries to our only decent CM and LB), 6-8 is a reasonable range.

Mate if you've been watching our games since Christmas, I don't know how you can claim we're not making progress. WHU was a comeback from 0-3 down and we had loads of chances vs. Fulham (xG was around 2.86 - 0.84), boys just got unlucky. We've also seen convincing wins vs. Chelsea, Leicester, and Tottenham. There's been real, tangible progress in how we attack and the number of chances we're creating. The only thing missing has been consistency, which is sure to improve as our youth matures.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

If he wins EL and gets us back to CL, then he buys himself more time here and deservedly so, but massive improvements need to be made in terms of performances as well as results.

What I say is that EL is a critical point for him and the only measure for which any decision about his future should be based on.

Win Europa: He gets to make his decisions in summer on player transfers, but he is also given a clear set of objectives that he must meet in next season like:

• Finish in CL places in PL,
• Make it past CL group stage,
• Have a decent run in domestic cups,
• More minutes for younger players etc...

Lose Europa: He's sacked!

It's the 'He buy's himself more time' stuff that worries me. It's very thought term thinking to me. If he wins the Europa League with the CL qualification that comes with it on top of the FA Cup Arteta should be seen as a long term appointment in my opinion. Not judged on a rolling basis. He'll have shown enough in my opinion in terms of achieving his objectives so far to warrant that more long term view.

His detractors will grudgingly accept he's going to be here next season if he wins the Europa League. Give it 6 months and they'll be back at him again irrespective.

The goals you've laid out are fine for next season . But It's only fair to admit judging by those parameters, particularly the CL related ones that Wenger should have been sacked before he was. Which I think we'd both disagree with. A high bar should be set though I agree.

My personal opinion is that Arteta will be here next season irrespective of where we finish in the Europa League. If there aren't strong improvements by Christmas time he'll be gone.

 

[Iceman10]

As an employee of the club Arteta and the players have a really fine line to walk. They by default owe their employer a certain loyalty when it comes to business decisions the ownership makes. I don’t agree personally with some decisions the company I work for makes but I wouldn’t voice them on say LinkedIn as no one else would here who works professionally.

So the fact that he is actually siding with the fans although in a circumspect way is him sticking out his neck I think. At least in my view.

I think this from yesterday is becoming sidebar from Albakos's posts above about being results based, etc., so to keep it short, my main point behind all of this was anyone getting carried away to think from.his comments that Arteta was on the #KroenkeOut bandwagon was silly, and definitely should avoid emotions from his words in the moment (fickleness) to override assessments of Arteta prior to his press conference yesterday, including all important team performance on the pitch.

 

[Macho]

His detractors will grudgingly accept he's going to be here next season if he wins the Europa League. Give it 6 months and they'll be back at him again irrespective.

What you and Jury fail to understand is not everyone has to rate Arteta
Even Wenger in his better days constantly had his critics you can't please everybody. His worst days are even better than now but you see the vitriol for him still.

It's no secret I think Arteta is rubbish and gets away with the most nonsense, but yeah if he wins Europa and gets CL then what can I say? I'd just stay silent. Possibly even stop watching eventually if it carries on. What's wrong with that?

Even if he secures CL -he's done the job but it would have been in the least convincing way possible and I reserve my right to not think he's the best man for the job.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

What you and Jury fail to understand is not everyone has to rate Arteta
Even Wenger in his better days constantly had his critics you can't please everybody. His worst days are even better than now but you see the vitriol for him still.

It's no secret I think Arteta is rubbish and gets away with the most nonsense, but yeah if he wins Europa and gets CL then what can I say? I'd just stay silent. Possibly even stop watching eventually if it carries on. What's wrong with that?

Even if he secures CL -he's done the job but it would have been in the least convincing way possible and I reserve my right to not think he's the best man for the job.

Of course not everyone has to rate Arteta.

He's not for you, doesn't really matter what he does. I've no issue with that. We all have preferences and dislikes.

Still, if he achieves the objectives laid out in terms of trophies and CL qualifications he deserves to be judged on a level playing field in terms of his job security.

 

[Iceman10]

Isn’t a lack of pressure an issue across the club, not just Arteta.

Vinai deals with commercial revenue right? Why are Tottenham ahead of us. Edu, a last minute deal for Partey was the best he could do for a dead attack / midfield?

This is spot on, and I see similar witn friends and conversations about Dallas Cowboys, on the matter of avoiding any "bad luck" excuses. It's like Gordon Ramsey going into a failing restaurant and uncovering all the rotten dysfunctional things behind the overall bad results. The thing is though, that Arteta has been lucky to be given this opportunity, and while the Kroenke's have been hands off that means he has had quite a bit of freedom to operate, as Albskos outlined above, so with that comes accountability *as well as for* the Kroenke's.

I repeat this quote from Oct-2020, the last days of the summer transfer window:

"I am very happy because the way we are acting and the way we are approaching and doing the processes around the market, around the squad and the communication link that we have at the moment between myself, Edu, the board and the ownership is really good and I'm really satisfied. And I know that we are all trying our best to improve the team and try to take the direction to achieve the goals that we want"

This quote can be rationalised about Arteta being a professional, but in this quote he is on record expressing satisfaction with the Kroenke's, so again, accountability has to include him for the results after that quote (this season).

 

[Tomislava10Barisic]

Mikel Arteta is for me a verry interesant person and i hope for him he stay with FC Arsenal London for an long time.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Not really into that.

Football is mainly a results-based sport and for a team as big as Arsenal the pressure to perform/win will always be big on any manager. This pressure for better results applies to even the best managers like Wenger, so there shouldn't be any leeway for Arteta nor anyone else.

I am not blinded with Arteta hate or whatever is implied, I recognize him for the fact that he wanted to trim the squad to have it more prepared for the campaign. He's made some good moves in offloading Mustafi, Sokratis, Kola and an underperforming Torreira.
But on the other side he made some pretty shocking squad management decisions as well and I will not go into that, because we'll get into an endless loop.

What it boils down to that we are on 9th and the continuous decline is there to see. This is due to many factors: inexperienced manager, covid, opposition getting better while we stagnate etc...

Arteta has had a lot of freedom with the squad decisions and wanting to put his vision on the pitch.

He made the following:

Signings he asked for: Willian , Gabriel, Partey, Ødegaard(loan), Mari, Cedric, Runarson, Ryan​

Selling: Özil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Martinez​

Loans: Guendouzi, Torreira, AMN, Willock, Saliba​

Keeping those who he wanted to continue with: Bellerin, Xhaka, Holding, Laca, Ceballos and Elneny ,​

Continuing contracts: Saka , Auba and Luiz​

Freezing, thus devaluating players: Martinelli (until late), Nelson, Nketiah, Chambers (until late)​

One cannot claim that this is not Arteta's team yet, because he was given plenty of space to maneuver around with the squad, to get some players as well as inheriting a team of decent performers with a top, top striker (Auba) in it.

Despite all of these changes, there is no improvement, there is a visible decline in results as well as performances (in the bigger picture, not just post-Boxing Day as some will have you think here).

If we think: Let's give him one final chance to see what he does in summer, then it will turn even worse. This is because if the new season starts awfully, there's another season gone and the damage will already be done.

By then if you decide to fire Arteta in mid-season you're only taking a mitigating action for the risk you have faced into, instead of having taken a preventive action (before season start) earlier on to stop that same risk from happening. Simple risk management and risk treatment decisions

The results are missing, we are in decline, so it finally boils down to that if we don't get back to CL by winning Europa, he should be sacked at end of season.

Just on the whole "its his team" argument. I dont get how people don't realise that he was forced to keep some players? I'm pretty certain if he could've sold Bellerin to PSG for 30M, he would and he'd buy a right back. And do you really think he's been happy having to rotate between Ceballos, Elneny and Xhaka for over half a season? I'm not sure what you expect.

He was forced to make stop gap, short term signings, medium term signings as backup that have had to start due to the starting players (Bellerin) not being good enough. I don't know about you, but I don't expect us to spend £200M in a summer, especially a pandemic ridden summer, to sort out all our problems in one go. So whilst on paper you can list all these players and say "He has his team!!" he doesn't. From the signings you listed Gabriel is the only one to have played over 2000 minutes over the entire season. You can't really sit there in sane thought and say he wanted to keep Ceballos, Elneny and Bellerin, he was forced to. If he could spend £300M last summer we wouldn't have any of these players here now.

I will reinforce that if he doesn't make the EL final and finishes below 8th then there's not much to suggest that he should stay. However, if he isn't sacked, I will back the summer window and EXPECT performances and consistency to be massively different. The plan in the summer is in place according to everyone we've heard from at the club. Which suggests CL football or not we'll be backed.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

It’s still Arteta out whether we win the Europa or not.

 

[Pyres7]

Of course not everyone has to rate Arteta.

He's not for you, doesn't really matter what he does. I've no issue with that. We all have preferences and dislikes.

Still, if he achieves the objectives laid out in terms of trophies and CL qualifications he deserves to be judged on a level playing field in terms of his job security.

The decision of giving him more time shouldn't hinge on 3 cup games, it should be based on whether he is the right man to take us forward. But this season has been THAT bad that he kind of needs the EL win to salvage it. He wouldn't have lasted this long at any other club, so he's actually quite lucky that the Kroenke's are here.

If he wins the EL will have ticked the box in terms of CL qualification, but he's not going to get us into Europe every season by winning cups. He'll still have it all to prove, but most Arsenal fans would be willing to give him a bit more time to do that if he does win it.

 

[Macho]

It’s still Arteta out whether we win the Europa or not.

Man like

 

[Riou]

As an honest Arteta In fan, I have no choice but to strongly disagree with anyone wanting him out...Mikel is doing the best he can considering the online hatred of him is clearly effecting the squad, our fanbase needs to stop being a disgrace and back the manager for once...let's stop being haters...COYA (A is for Arteta)