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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Your defence of Arteta was, I want to say "borderline" but that would be way too generous, nah it was outright cult leader levels of fanaticism. That fact that due to ONE game you went from that extreme to now saying it's "obvious" he's not the right for the job shows that your entire previous argument was completely and utterly shallow. There are (or maybe "were" is the operative word after last night) a fair few Arteta fanboys on this forum, obviously I have my beef with them and the views they hold/held, but even still their stances on Arteta and Emery were far more "reasonable" (if you can even call it "reasonable" to support Arteta) then what you exhibited.

Meh, nonsense. The discussion is there for all to see. I brought up valid points in that discussion that are equally as valid now, even after Arteta's terribly disappointing performance in the EL, which leaves the season in its totality as nothing but a failure. That still doesn't change that there was a positive progression going on in terms of league performance, which is the majority of the season and the biggest sample upon which to make judgments, but it does paint it in a much more unsatisfying light; if the progression was not just a positive one but an overwhelmingly positive one (if I could cite, for example, that we were second in xPTS since December 26), then my argument would be a different one. As it is I look at the evidence and come to the conclusion that Arteta's work has been in its totality poor this season, and that the relatively positive progression since December 26 does not outweigh the first 14 games which left us in such a terrible position and which were the product of both bad management and bad summer planning, does not outweigh being beat tactically by a **** manager in our only chance for Europe, and that, most importantly, for however promising Arteta is in theory (as it is mainly just theory right now with only a few tangible hints, and a number of detracting factors), there is no reason for us to persist with a manager who is mostly theory and is clearly not offering enough in the short-term, when there are managers who can very likely do better in the short-term, while also offering much promise (Gallardo and Potter, primarily, for me).

There was nothing cultish about my points, it was far more reasonable than the rest of the discussion going on. And it's not "ONE" game, it's a two legged tie taken with the totality of the events of the season. But again, continue to twist things as you like. As it is, I still brought up points that you have ignored; still brought up the fact that order of events matters quite a lot here, that it was not the same position wrt to league competition (saying nothing about cohesiveness and direction of the team) that Em*ry picked the team up in as did Arteta, that all this hate for Arteta was coming at a time when the team had been performing much better than in the rest of his reign, and in any part of Em*ry's. Arteta is still certainly a better manager than Em*ry (his work is there to be seen; taking Arsenal back drastically, taking Villarreal back now), despite being outmanaged by him in these two games.

You said that it is stupid to rate Arteta and not Em*ry; I pointed out why one reasonably could. You seem to be angry because I do not want to avoid all nuance and analysis, like you, I guess.

Again, you will continue to ignore evidence and reason because you seem to be angry and desperate to see me as something I am not. I defer to my posts, which I of course stand by completely now, as they were well thought out and reasoned posts, despite the fact I have adjusted my position accordingly before new evidence, and despite the fact Arteta did not reward the faith I put in him.
 
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GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
I'd be loathe for us to become a club that settles for mediocrity on and off the pitch. Oh wait....

Would you be singing that tune if Hodgson was our manager or Alan Curbishley? When a rot is setting in, you cut it off, don't give it time to fester further and hope it gets better.
My gut feeling is always to be the Arsenal manager in, as long as the players are playing for him. The rot runs deeper than the manager at Arsenal, but Arteta can have no complaints if he is sacked.

I've only supported the sacking of two Arsenal managers, Rioch and Emery. Emery because the players were clearly not playing for him, even ridiculing him. Rioch because he was a dinosaur completely out of his depth.

In principle, my view is that you support whomever is managing this club, unless he has lost the dressing room.
 

GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
At this point i'm truly disgusted by this club. I haven't the heart for it any more.
The heart of this club has been gradually torn out. From the stadium change, ownership change - to small petty things like the Goonersaurus debacle.

That is in many ways the really sad thing about the situation at the club.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Double Dusted
Dusted 🔻
I imagine Kroenke's are scrambling to buy time. They won't act either way before the end of the season. It seems harder to find a manager now than it was 18 months ago. They might be learning abd talking to Allegri or Ragnick. One can only hope there is a plan because the last three years suggest its been more of a gamble
 

Taxi Driver

Well-Known Member
Too many people in here taking glee in Arteta's struggles to be honest.

I like the guy and rate him more than most, but should he be sacked? Probably, based on results.

Maybe he's not up to the job but I don't think anyone can say he's not giving his all or hasn't conducted himself in a pretty dignified manner. None of that means he should keep his job but he deserves a baseline of respect from the fanbase.

Sack him if we must but there's no need to want to humiliate the guy or be vindictive.

Arteta's struggles? You can't be serious, he's a millionaire and he's been handed a job coveted by many on a silver platter; in what other line of work can that sort of thing happen to an unexperienced rookie?

And it's his fault too - his hubris led him down this path, and his hubris alone. Should've started small and not taken the shortcuts. Sorry, but I have little sympathy for him.

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GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
I imagine Kroenke's are scrambling to buy time. They won't act either way before the end of the season. It seems harder to find a manager now than it was 18 months ago. They might be learning abd talking to Allegri or Ragnick. One can only hope there is a plan because the last three years suggest its been more of a gamble
I think if they sack Arteta, they must find an experienced manager, who knows the league and the hit the road running. You'd have to look at Rodgers, if you can persuade him.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚

I wouldn't be surprised. It's a very subjective thing and I could be wrong but I did not see the same mentality and desire of a team desperate to turn things around for their manager in the second leg today as I did against Benfica. I would not be surprised if the faith of some important players there has at the very least wavered, based on the attitudes I saw in yesterday's showing.

Not even a doubt but a certainty now.

That's always been a certainty, when has there ever been doubt about that? Em*ry is an expert in bringing clubs backwards. He's done it everywhere, minus perhaps Sevilla, which was a club that finished 5th, 7th, and 5th with him and immediately moved into CL positions the season after, achieving CL in a few seasons since he left.

Arteta picked the club up in a dire state from that clown and brought it a bit forward, and despite doing a very poor job this season, we are surely in better shape than we would be with a manager of Em*ry's calibre.
 
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