Mikel Arteta: Blinded By The Lights

What does Mikel need to do to keep his job in your opinion?


  • Total voters
    118

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
Most on here would accept Top Six, tbf, even those against Arteta.

Think both Sp**s and Leicester are coming to the end of their cycles, will be hard for them to replace some of their key players that are ageing/leaving...we should be getting above them and in the Europa League places next season.
Leicester are very smart though, Brenda & their recruitment team have done a really good job. Somebody suggested the other day we were looking at their model of buying younger players to develop now rather than big signings to hopefully jump back towards top 4.
Sp**s could be anything next season but i would be disappointed if we dont finally get back above them. What i will say is that when Leicester won the league all the other big clubs were in transition apart from us.
That was the big chance & we failed.

You now have Everton & Villa fans feeling confident they will overtake us.
Personally i dont think they will even though Everton have spent a lot in recent seasons and have an experienced manager in Rafa.
There squads are probably not far of ours though quality wise tbh.

I think we will be top 6.
 

Pyres7

Well-Known Member
Tend? It's clear and obvious. He was wondering why a team that was fielding Bellerin, Pablo Mari, Ceballos, and Willian wasn't winning us games. Smh.
Arteta was the one who convinced Bellerin and Xhaka to stay last season. He brought Ceballos back on loan, he brought Elneny back and played him regularly, he signed Mari, Willian, Cedric, Runarsson.

And you lot want to give him hundreds of millions of our club's money to spend?
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
If you sign Willian and he's not performing, do you keep starting him for three years and hope for the best? No, you admit you made a mistake, cut your losses, find the right replacement and move on.

Why should that be different for the manager?
Because the manager is young & has not fallen of a cliff like willian.

Arteta & everyone knows the signing has not worked out.
Im sure willian will be moved on if possible.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
Arteta was the one who convinced Bellerin and Xhaka to stay last season. He brought Ceballos back on loan, he brought Elneny back and played him regularly, he signed Mari, Willian, Cedric, Runarsson.

And you lot want to give him hundreds of millions of our club's money to spend?
What do you expect him to do, go into the season with no right back? Xhaka was our best midfielder until Arteta brought in Partey. You cannot overhaul a squad in one window. Elneny is backup
Mari is also backup & imho better than Mustafi or Sokratis that Wenger or Emery both spent far more money on..
Willian flopped it can happen. Cedric was imo a kia/edu favour signing.
Hopefully kia can do us a solid by moving them both on now.
When he has spent money on players like Partey/Gabriel i have been happy.
You get judged on money signings not loans, freebies & reserve keepers.
Some signings will not work out its just a fact of life. It happens to all managers.
Many non Arteta/Edu signings have been poor & thats why we are struggling to move on or had to give them away. was another big money. Sead another that we cant seem to shift.
 
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krengon

One Arsène Wenger
Trusted ✔️
I don`t think that is true at all. Potch was an option for them in 2014 after some good performances in Southampton. They could have had 2 managers instead of 6 from 2008 to 2014 and still gone for Potch. I think their league positions might have been better in those years too.
Point is not that one should hang on to a coach for ever. Thats taking my argument to an extreme. There is a middle way between keeping a coach for 1 or 1.5 season and keeping a coach for ever.

So I looked it up, Their results improved immediately after sacking their underperforming managers, looking at their seasons if they had kept those managers too long they most likely would have been way worse off. Juande Ramos finishes 11th, 8th(sacked in october after starting with 2 draws and 6 losses in 8 games) .Should they have kept him, he won the carling cup after all? The following season they finish 4th btw. Villas boas sacked mid season and Sheringham comes in and improves results and finishes 6th, they still sack him for Potch.. Should they have kept Sheringham for stability's sake?

point is time is earned. Stability for the sake of it is pointless and harmful.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
Before I answer seriously: end of next season, are you taking the ****ing piss??
I dont think you should sack a manager mid season, the season hasnt started so Arteta gets the next season.
Are you suggesting if we are bottom half after 3 games he should be potted or are you gonna go with if not top 6 at xmas? :D
Just seen your post above.
Arteta was 15th last season and some people wanted him sacked. He finished 8th .
Say a new man had come in when we were 15th and finished 11th would that have been progress?
 
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krengon

One Arsène Wenger
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I dont think you should sack a manager mid season, the season hasnt started so Arteta gets the next season.
Are you suggesting if we are bottom half after 3 games he should be potted or are you gonna go with if not top 6 at xmas

If we have a similar start to last year he should obviously be sacked mid season.

As for your 2nd point no that wouldn’t be progress. It would have been close to impossible to do worse than that first half of season, so more like regression to mean.
 

blrgooner

Well-Known Member
So I looked it up, Their results improved immediately after sacking their underperforming managers, looking at their seasons if they had kept those managers too long they most likely would have been way worse off. Juande Ramos finishes 11th, 8th(sacked in october after starting with 2 draws and 6 losses in 8 games) .Should they have kept him, he won the carling cup after all? The following season they finish 4th btw. Villas boas sacked mid season and Sheringham comes in and improves results and finishes 6th, they still sack him for Potch.. Should they have kept Sheringham for stability's sake?

point is time is earned. Stability for the sake of it is pointless and harmful.

Well I don`t disagree with the point itself. Stability for the sake of it is harmful. All I am saying is that Stability is one of the factors which we need to consider along with other factors.

My point is that you should judge someone based on expectations and performance w.r.t to those expectations. Based on what everybody here is saying now, 5th to 8th is a realistic expectation for this squad. We finished 8th but were only 5 points away from where we could have expected to be. Does the difference of 5 points deserve a sacking? I don`t think so. Should the need for stability counter the level of under performance we saw this season? I think the answer is yes.
 

GunnerUK

Well-Known Member
If you sign Willian and he's not performing, do you keep starting him for three years and hope for the best? No, you admit you made a mistake, cut your losses, find the right replacement and move on.

Why should that be different for the manager?
I’m sure I’ve heard Willian had something in his contract that states a certain number of appearances we must adhere to. That would explain why we keep playing him.

that signing was always a gamble but the club approached it that their signing a player for free with lots of premier league experience and was at one stage arguably Chelsea’s best player. But his been absolutely rubbish and nowhere near the level we see 3/4 years ago..

another one we won’t be able to rid until his contract expires.
 

blrgooner

Well-Known Member
Leno > Schmeichel
Bellerin < Justin
Gabriel = Fofana
Holding < Soyuncu
Tierney >> Castagne
Partey > Ndidi
Smith Rowe < Maddison
Xhaka < Tielemans
Saka >> Under
Pepe > Barnes
Auba > Vardy

It's really not better. We fully underperformed and should be in the 4-6 position next season at a minimum.
I think Schmeichel is at least equal to Leno. Ndidi vs Partey for last season is not clearly on Partey`s side considering the fact that Partey was playing his first season and had lots of injury worries.
In any case, looking at the 2 teams, if you were not an Arsenal fan, I doubt you can clearly say that one team is much better than the other.
 

krengon

One Arsène Wenger
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My point is that you should judge someone based on expectations and performance w.r.t to those expectations. Based on what everybody here is saying now, 5th to 8th is a realistic expectation for this squad. We finished 8th but were only 5 points away from where we could have expected to be. Does the difference of 5 points deserve a sacking? I don`t think so. Should the need for stability counter the level of under performance we saw this season? I think the answer is yes.

Nah man how is 8th a realistic expectation for Arsenal? That’s a disaster of a season and a realistic worst case scenario, it’s hard to finish lower than that.
 

GunnerUK

Well-Known Member
Arteta’s record against the top 6 is quite impressive we won just 3 games against the top teams out of 19 before his appointment. But beaten them 9 times in 19 matches with Mikel in charge. It’s evident he knows how to get the team pumped for big occasions but needs consistency across the season. Our first game against Brentford is a massive test it’s the sort of game we’ll go and lose.

But Arteta has the respect of the dressing room if the players believe in him then I’m all for it.
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Well-Known Member
Arteta’s record against the top 6 is quite impressive we won just 3 games against the top teams out of 19 before his appointment. But beaten them 9 times in 19 matches with Mikel in charge. It’s evident he knows how to get the team pumped for big occasions but needs consistency across the season. Our first game against Brentford is a massive test it’s the sort of game we’ll go and lose.

But Arteta has the respect of the dressing room if the players believe in him then I’m all for it.
I think its more the approach, being defensive against a top team is much easier to organise than attempting to control a game. You can see this with Utd before Fernadnez arrived, struggled to create much but he papered over the cracks for them. Top teams will end up pushing up against us because we struggle to keep the ball which lets us be compact.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
If we have a similar start to last year he should obviously be sacked mid season.

As for your 2nd point no that wouldn’t be progress. It would have been close to impossible to do worse than that first half of season, so more like regression to mean.
I get that view.

Fact is last season was a freak with the pandemic that would have been tough for an experienced manager let alone a rookie the 1st 14 games he underachieved big time. In the next 24 he overachieved considerably as it was top 4 level.
The season before he won the fa cup.
I think going through a bad spell and turning it around will benefit him as a manager & hopefully us as a club by sticking with him.

I dont see a strong argument for sacking Arteta & getting Nuno in do you?


Everton expected a real big season last year they have an owner who has pumped in lots of money in & were around the top for the 1st half, fans were giddy thinking they could push for the top and were nailed on for Europe. They had a very well regarded experienced manager decent squad quality and finished below us.
 

Olivier_Giroud

Well-Known Member
You can argue all you want if our team is top 4 or top 6 material, but the fact of the matter is, Arteta destroyed negative records that has not been broken since World War I. Just imagine that, those records survived the Influenza Pandemic and now we are in the midst of another Pandemic and Arteta broke those records in one fell swoop, just one season. Those records would not be broken in one sitting if a Real Manager like Brendan Rodgers was in charge even if they tried, but Arteta broke them like it was nothing.

Those records are one of the factors that made us as Arsenal, a big, storied club with rich history. It is pointless to argue that this is not Arteta's team when even relegation teams or teams we normally beat like it was nothing has beaten us not only at home for the first time, but some of them have done the double against us. It is sickening. We have become a comedy club, our stadium is not a fortress but a Circus tent under Arteta.

That's what happens if our club just appoints some random ex-Arsenal player because he is cheap, a yes man and a warm body. We became a pub team. We did not expect Arteta, an ex-Arsenal player who has not even managed little kids, to over achieve. What we asked is the bare minimum, to compete, to be at par and play football the Arsenal way. What Arteta did instead was not only underachieve, but simply did a travesty of disastrous proportions. If Arsenal was a country, Arteta would have been hanged for treason.
 

Arsenal1508

Mods are unethical! Özil, come assist me please!
Arteta’s record against the top 6 is quite impressive we won just 3 games against the top teams out of 19 before his appointment. But beaten them 9 times in 19 matches with Mikel in charge. It’s evident he knows how to get the team pumped for big occasions but needs consistency across the season. Our first game against Brentford is a massive test it’s the sort of game we’ll go and lose.

But Arteta has the respect of the dressing room if the players believe in him then I’m all for it.
Plays like Southgate. Beating top teams is more fun when we play our own style...wait, we have none. Playing 10 behind the ball and scraping wins is not a sign of a top team.
 

blrgooner

Well-Known Member
Nah man how is 8th a realistic expectation for Arsenal? That’s a disaster of a season and a realistic worst case scenario, it’s hard to finish lower than that.
8th is not a realistic expectation for arsenal.. But realistic expectation is 5th or 6th.. And we were not far away from that.
Its not impossible to finish lower. While the previous season was a disaster, i remember thinking in December that our best case scenario is finishing with 60-63 points and we finished with 61. The time leading to december was just horrendous and while that was not likely to continue, i think it was not far fetched to imagine us doing worse than we ended up doing.
 
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