Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[Makingtrax]

I don't think not being in Europe will be a big issue. COVID will be a problem but I think we can make it an advantage. We have a lot of players to get rid of. Stock pile the cash by selling them on the cheap to invest in 3-4 very good players that we can get cheaper than other transfer windows. Plus, I imagine Kroenke will inject a bit of cash to take advantage of the market.

You're losing all credibility for me. You're just making stuff up and inserting the word patience every few sentences. Where's your metrics or evidence that we're anything other than a mid table side that can only lose by the odd goal, but can't score.

All this stuff about it's OK to lose European money, or Arteta would have been great at Chelsea is just horse sh!t.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

I can't agree with that, the squeezing of our finances from Covid and being out of Europe's top 2 comps will be intense.

The one "silver lining" for lack of a better phrase is that we've gotten a lot of big wage earners off our books.

I feel the opposite to you tbh. Think we’re one of the worst positioned clubs for a pandemic affected window.

Bloated and full of deadwood that no one can afford to buy. I think the Kroenkes or Edu said we have a Europa League squad on Champions League wages and that was before Covid hit.

There’s a reason we’ve been cancelling contracts in January. Read a good article the other day saying that clubs around Europe have no money right now.

With a club that’s so reliant on extra money from match day attendance and prize money if we’re getting neither but also aren’t bringing in transfer fees for players we’re in trouble.

All fair points and ones to worry about. For one, I was saying that more as far as player recruitment in being an attractive option for players to come here. And two, to react to what you're actually getting at... we have a lot of players to sell, even if we have to do so forcibly on the cheap. There's still a good bit of cash to stockpile there: Elneny, Nketiah, AMN, Torreira, Guendouzi, Nelson, Lacazette, and Kolasinac.

 

[Makingtrax]

As in I clarified my point in the next sentence man, I said we didn’t play that amazingly but we weren’t bad.

I am not bothered to explain why anymore but we are in a period of a rebuild and culture change so it won’t look pretty, I still give Arteta another summer. If he doesn’t improve with signings we should move on.

Why would you give him another summer, he's on £5m a year and he's shown no sign of getting a team to score goals. We were 8th last year and there's no evidence in February that'll he do any better this year.

 

[Rasmi]

It's hard to judge all of this during this season. It's a crazy one with the league having been wide open for more than half the season (until City started running away with it). I don't think other clubs will be stagnant, especially given the cash flow into the EPL right now. But I also don't think we'll be either. We'll make some serious investments in the Summer, whether we have Europe or not. Some players will probably be sold that some of the fans don't want to be sold (Lacazette, AMN, etc.) but it's necessary for investment and the direction we're headed.

I'm sorry you can't see the progress we're making in the details. Like I said, it'll be some more time before you start seeing the kind of progress you want to see - the wins column, especially in the EPL table. But I'm excited with where we're headed. And I still think the EL is achievable this season.

I think Arteta's appointment is in consideration of us being self-sustainable. You have to look at the models of KSE's American franchises. He's a long term appointment from what I can tell (and even if we don't get Europe this season).

I can’t see the progression either. We are headed to mid table mediocrity and I’m amazed how some people choose to see what they want. If it’s the self sustainable route they want, then the Arteta appointment makes even less sense. This is where a know how manager who has worked with tight budget is needed. Not inexperienced like when zidane, guardiola and lampard took over and had serious financial backing. I know some people feel backing the club no matter what is part of being a good fan. But arguing Arteta was the right appointment includes suspending any logic

 

[AbouCuéllar]

The one thing I will say about Mikel today is that I cannot understand how he left Elneny on so long. Tbh I'm not even sure how Elneny started.

Ceballos should've come on earlier, our midfield play was dire and Elneny was really a black hole in building attacks.

0-1 is the same as 0-2 or 0-3, we need points and he wasn't daring enough. As usual, my main critique with him: he tends toward conservatism a bit too often and it more than often bites him in the ass.

Still generally pleased with how the project is developing and hoping the performances are rewarded with better results. Let's win against Benfica and Leicester and things will look much prettier.

 

[Melquiades]

Why would you give him another summer, he's on £5m a year and he's shown no sign of getting a team to score goals. We were 8th last year and there's no evidence in February that'll he do any better this year.

Our goalscoring record since Christmas would be 5th in the PL if projected over the full season.

There are plenty of reasons to be negative about Arteta, but there have been pretty clear improvements offensively.

 

[Sweet'n'Soulful]

All the Arteta fan boys are reaching beyond credibility.

I'd love to support him and if I could see any 'actual evidence' that he might prove to be the future, I would.

What would ‘actual evidence’ be? 6th, 5th... a promising 8th? A fluked EL trophy?

 

[Melquiades]

The one thing I will say about Mikel today is that I cannot understand how he left Elneny on so long. Tbh I'm not even sure how Elneny started.

Ceballos should've come on earlier, our midfield play was dire and Elneny was really a black hole in building attacks.

0-1 is the same as 0-2 or 0-3, we need points and he wasn't daring enough. As usual, my main critique with him: he tends toward conservatism a bit too often and it more than often bites him in the ass.

Still generally pleased with how the project is developing and hoping the performances are rewarded with better results. Let's win against Benfica and Leicester and things will look much prettier.

Elneny's job was to mark and shut down Gundogan who is the form player in Europe right now. And he did a terrific job of that.

Unfortunately, he's absolutely dire with the ball at his feet going forward (and it's also a lot easier to notice a crap pass from Elneny than it is to notice a pass that didn't happen into Gundogan because he was well covered). But he does serve a purpose as a squaddie and did do a job for the team today. And given how limited our midfield options are with Partey out, I'm not going to blame Arteta for putting Elneny into that role.

It would be nice if we had a DM who could do that job and actually play some balls forward, though, obviously.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

What would ‘actual evidence’ be? 6th, 5th... a promising 8th? A fluked EL trophy?

Tbf, yeah, better results in the league would be 'actual evidence'.

That said, the trend in performances is clear to see. Happy with the general direction. It's the first time we've had a positive trend in performances, where our football has looked to have a direction and a coherence, in a long, long time.

Now, need more results to accompany that. If they come, as I expect they will, from now til the end of the season, then yeah, there will be 'actual evidence' so that the haters can pipe down a bit.

Elneny's job was to mark and shut down Gundogan who is the form player in Europe right now. And he did a terrific job of that.

Unfortunately, he's absolutely dire with the ball at his feet going forward (and it's also a lot easier to notice a crap pass from Elneny than it is to notice a pass that didn't happen into Gundogan because he was well covered). But he does serve a purpose as a squaddie and did do a job for the team today. And given how limited our midfield options are with Partey out, I'm not going to blame Arteta for putting Elneny into that role.

It would be nice if we had a DM who could do that job and actually play some balls forward, though, obviously.

That's fair, yeah, I mean, I got that when I saw the XI (even though I think what Elneny offers defensively really doesn't outweigh what he limits us in the 'salida' of the ball from back and general ball progression), but it still doesn't explain why he waited so long to make such a substitution. Too conservative, IMO.

 

[Preacher]

Our goalscoring record since Christmas would be 5th in the PL if projected over the full season.

There are plenty of reasons to be negative about Arteta, but there have been pretty clear improvements offensively.

Because we played against 3 teams which concede the most goals in the league: wba, leeds and newcastle. It stat padded our attack. Take away it and you have bare bones.

 

[DUFFMAN]

Why would you give him another summer, he's on £5m a year and he's shown no sign of getting a team to score goals. We were 8th last year and there's no evidence in February that'll he do any better this year.

Scored 4 goals in our last league game​

 

[benjamin86]

I think this is changing with Arteta and Edu. See Martinez. They also cut losses on contracts already which opens up a lot of possibilities this upcoming summer. I think KSE will inject some cash to take advantage of the cheaper market than other years but I don't think it will be a lot. There's a good portion of players to be sold as well (Nketiah, Elneny, Guendouzi, Torreira, Kolasinac, Lacazette, AMN, etc). Due to the market, they'll probably be sold for cheaper but this will allow us to stock pile the cash and buy a few very good players for relatively cheap in taking advantage of the same market (I have a feeling Ødegaard will be one). To also save on costs, we'll probably bring Luiz back another season.

You need to realize how short term you're looking at all of this. We'll be fine, just show some patience. Unfortunately for you you'll be aggravated a few more times but it'll be worth it in the long run.

And just to be clear. To think I'm not hurting with the losing and our place in the table is silly. I'm just not being emotional in wanting to oust Arteta. I can see what's been achieved and the mess we're pulling ourselves out of. We're not an oil club that can spends hundreds of millions in one transfer window to correct these things. As a self-sustainable model, this is the route we have to take. For once we have the pieces in place with a plan to achieve it. This is long term we're building not some shot term plan focused on getting us back in to the CL (see Emery).

I feel like we're in a similar situation to Guardiola in his first season at Man City but they were able to go out and get the players he needed in 1 or 2 transfer windows, for us and Arteta it'll probably be summer 2023 when the squad is what he wants it to be.

 

[DUFFMAN]

Because we played against 3 teams which concede the most goals in the league: wba, leeds and newcastle. It stat padded our attack. Take away it and you have bare bones.

Chelsea, Southampton??

6 goals.

 

[Rasmi]

Because we played against 3 teams which concede the most goals in the league: wba, leeds and newcastle. It stat padded our attack. Take away it and you have bare bones.

Lool it’s 25 league games 31 goals. Imagine trying to put a positive spin on that. Take those 3 terrible defences away and you 20 league goals in 22 matches. They have no problem with just few matches and say positive, but when the opposite is done it looks even worse

 

[Lidl_Reed]

People saying Arteta should go even if we win the EL are just out of touch at this stage. So you sack the guy who wins you your first European trophy in ages and the guy who gets you back into the CL?

Difference b/w us and a big club. Chelsea sacked CL winning managers for not being good enough

 

[al-Ustaadh]

That wasn’t great business imo. I think everyone on this forum knows my stance on who should have stayed between Emi Martinez and Leno, so I don’t have to mention it once again but I actually think he was worth more at the time considering Liverpool sold their third choice keeper to Leicester for 12.5m.

I understand that our current self sustaining model is a hinderance but I still don’t believe that Arteta is the right coach to get us back to what we expect of the club. He doesn’t have any experience which is clearly a worrying sign and automatic red flag.

The thing with Arteta is why have you got so much loyalty and attachment to him? He wasn’t even a legend at the club to get this much leeway.

I wanted to see Emi stay but he wanted to start. And his last few matches have really shown his weaknesses. I hate to admit it, but Leno was the correct option.

I've been on the Arteta hype train for a while, before he even went to City. All the right people in football have said he'll make a great manager one day (Xabi Alonso, Pochettino, Wenger, Pep). Not only does he want to be here, and I think we should feel lucky that he is, but I think the style of football he wants to play is the direction football is heading in the future. Moreover, I think he's a highly intelligent person, and not just in a footballing tactics and coaching sense. I think he has a knack for the public-persona-in-the-media side as well as the business and negotiations side, the side of economics and transfers like Wenger (there's a reason they've had him closely working with Edu before this new hire comes in towards the end of this season). He has a complete understanding of football and that's important with the kind of model we run at this club. In this sense, I think he has a higher ceiling than somebody like Pep. He doesn't need a massive transfer kitty to succeed. I mean, he's already won us an FA Cup.

You're losing all credibility for me. You're just making stuff up and inserting the word patience every few sentences. Where's your metrics or evidence that we're anything other than a mid table side that can only lose by the odd goal, but can't score.

All this stuff about it's OK to lose European money, or Arteta would have been great at Chelsea is just horse sh!t.

Not trying to make things up. But fair enough.

I do think Arteta would've had better technical players to work with at Chelsea compared to Arsenal, especially in the final third. And I've already responded to the European money point.

As far as metrics: our defending is much, much better from what I've seen. This is the main reason why I think we still have a chance in the EL. This mid-table talk is misleading if we had a few matches go our way. Think we'll finish strong and make top 8 due to our defending, so it's all mute to me.

But there are a lot of things that metrics wont show. Since December, we move the ball quicker, we're better at passing in tight spaces, our build-up play is great, especially out from the back. There's passes that the players make we would've never dreamed of making under Emery, especially from the backline and in midfield. Our pressing has gotten even better, particularly as a team. Even City had issues against it today. It's coming together, it's just been slow this season and I believe part of that is the pandemic with no proper preseason. We have a lot to work on in the final third, and unlike most, I've thought that's where we've needed the most investment for years even going back to Wenger.

Pep failed in his first season at City in implementing his system, including yelling his ass off on the sidelines every match. It took time (and a massive investment, which Arteta doesn't have access to so it'll take a bit longer for us but as I said above I don't think he needs that kind of investment to succeed). But as I repeat, if the KSE American franchises are anything to go by, Arteta wont be going anywhere any time soon. I'm of the belief that Arteta is getting a pass this season regardless. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Oh, and patience. Can't forget that.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Difference b/w us and a big club. Chelsea sacked CL winning managers for not being good enough

Because they've got the cash to burn. If you have a self-sustainable model, good look with hiring and firing managers at will.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

I feel like we're in a similar situation to Guardiola in his first season at Man City but they were able to go out and get the players he needed in 1 or 2 transfer windows, for us and Arteta it'll probably be summer 2023 when the squad is what he wants it to be.

I don't know if it'll be that long but I certainly think we'll still be in squad building mode after this upcoming summer. With that being said, though, I think we'll be competing for top 4 next season.

 

[Rasmi]

I wanted to see Emi stay but he wanted to start. And his last few matches have really shown his weaknesses. I hate to admit it, but Leno was the correct option.

I've been on the Arteta hype train for a while, before he even went to City. All the right people in football have said he'll make a great manager one day (Xabi Alonso, Pochettino, Wenger, Pep). Not only does he want to be here, and I think we should feel lucky that he is, but I think the style of football he wants to play is the direction football is heading in the future. Moreover, I think he's a highly intelligent person, and not just in a footballing tactics and coaching sense. I think he has a knack for the public-persona-in-the-media side as well as the business and negotiations side, the side of economics and transfers like Wenger (there's a reason they've had him closely working with Edu before this new hire comes in towards the end of this season). He has a complete understanding of football and that's important with the kind of model we run at this club. In this sense, I think he has a higher ceiling than somebody like Pep. He doesn't need a massive transfer kitty to succeed. I mean, he's already won us an FA Cup.


Not trying to make things up. But fair enough.

I do think Arteta would've had better technical players to work with at Chelsea compared to Arsenal, especially in the final third. And I've already responded to the European money point.

As far as metrics: our defending is much, much better from what I've seen. This is the main reason why I think we still have a chance in the EL. This mid-table talk is misleading if we had a few matches go our way. Think we'll finish strong and make top 8 due to our defending, so it's all mute to me.

But there are a lot of things that metrics wont show. Since December, we move the ball quicker, we're better at passing in tight spaces, our build-up play is great, especially out from the back. There's passes that the players make we would've never dreamed of making under Emery, especially from the backline and in midfield. Our pressing has gotten even better, particularly as a team. Even City had issues against it today. It's coming together, it's just been slow this season and I believe part of that is the pandemic with no proper preseason. We have a lot to work on in the final third, and unlike most, I've thought that's where we've needed the most investment for years even going back to Wenger.

Pep failed in his first season at City in implementing his system, including yelling his ass off on the sidelines every match. It took time (and a massive investment, which Arteta doesn't have access to so it'll take a bit longer for us but as I said above I don't think he needs that kind of investment to succeed). But as I repeat, if the KSE American franchises are anything to go by, Arteta wont be going anywhere any time soon. I'm of the belief that Arteta is getting a pass this season regardless. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Oh, and patience. Can't forget that.

I think you are on drugs or you trolling us. We should feel lucky Arteta want to manage us? You basically saying you find him sexy and charming hence he is the right man for you

 

[al-Ustaadh]

I think you are on drugs or you trolling us. We should feel lucky Arteta want to manage us? You basically saying you find him sexy and charming hence he is the right man for you