Mikel Arteta: He Who Must Not Be Named

[Macho]

Adebayor scored 24 goals in the league. That’s a mental take.

Flamini was boss that year and was pretty good at Milan. By the time we picked him up again he was pretty much finished but in that first spell he was quality.

The other guys you’ve listed weren’t really racking up the minutes apart from Almunia.

Yeah Ade was immense, very before his time (a common phrase you hear about a lot of Wenger's emirates players). Athletic, big and pressed like a madman initially too until his ego and swagger kicked in.

Think he scored 30 goals in all comps one season? Which is mental especially when you compare that to what some of the current lot get praised for today, it's not really talked about and he coulda gone far.

Funnily enough, with Pogba's situation surfacing it reminded me of him. He had a lot of family issues and dodgy advice in the peak of his career. I remember his brother actually sent a letter to Madrid which stopped his loan becoming permanent for example.

 

[A_G]

Think he scored 30 goals in all comps one season? Which is mental especially when you compare that

07/08. Then he started agitating for a move, saying Milan wanting him is like a boy being wanted by Beyoncé and nothing was the same again.

 

[Macho]

07/08. Then he started agitating for a move, saying Milan wanting him is like a boy being wanted by Beyoncé and nothing was the same again.

I mean he wasn't lying, think Cesc often talked about being flattered as well. The joke is Wenger actually kicked him out to balance the books in the end.

Atleast he didn't go out for icecream.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Tbh I think that largely the comparison between the players of 07/08 and the present day is less important than the abilities of the managers.

I think you've always got to be aware of nostalgia clouding your opinions on players from past eras. I'm not saying there weren't some very good players in the side back then because there were but there was also a fair bit of dross that got significant game time.

I look at the squad and number of appearances and the likes of Almunia, Eboue, Flamini, Song, Senderos, Bendtner etc I've just never rated these guys as talents, not at the time and not now ( Maybe it's a controversial take but I never particularly rated Adebayor either, though he had a really good season that year)

It's incredible and a testament to Arsène that he managed to get some extended periods of really good football out of some bang average players.

None of those guys really did anything post Arsenal because they weren't very good tbh.

In fact I struggle to think of an established player during that era who went on to perform better as an individual
when he left Arsenal ( not talking about winning more trophies here or playing for a better overall side)

Hleb as an aside was a very good footballer, he's actually a bit unfortunate that he was kind of in the wrong era for his playstyle. If he was around today he'd get much more credit. Major career mistake leaving Arsenal though.

While those are the weak links of the time. We also had stockpiled technical players we just don't have today ala Cesc, Rosicky, Hleb, RVP, Diaby all levels above what we have today. Cesc and RVP being bonafied world class players that we can't hope to attract right now in our current state.

In turn though I think physically and in terms of pressing we're a better organised unit.

 

[Rex Stone]

Abebayor is in the context of going from watching the likes of Bergkamp, Anelka and Henry up front. That's very high standards admittedly but he was never that level of player and I think his career post Arsenal kind of backs that up. Stylistically I just couldn't take to him, particularly after losing Henry in the previous summer.

Flamini is the same issue for me. Gilberto was getting phased out by this stage and Flamini was fine but he wasn't fit to lace the boots of the player Gilberto was.

Could say the same for Clichy. Decent player but going from A. Cole to him was like going from a fillet steak to a pub burger. It's fine but you're not going to get too excited over a downgrade.

Maybe I'm being harsh but in this era I saw great / legendary players being replaced by good / decent ones. It's only 3-4 years after the Invincibles but It felt like the heartbeat of that great side had already gone.

Think you’re being overly critical. Flamini fully benched Gilberto from 2006 onwards because he was better.

Was an amazing LB in our run to the CL final in 2005/06 as well.

Clichy was good enough to be a starter on a PL winning team as evidenced by his later career.

We lost “world class” players in those positions but gained them in other areas. RVP is arguably the second best striker we’ve had in the Premier League era, Fabregas was the best creative midfielder we’ve ever had.

 

[albakos]

Think you’re being overly critical. Flamini fully benched Gilberto from 2006 onwards because he was better.

A slight correction, Flamini benched Gilberto from the start of 2007/08 season.

A season earlier the 2006/07 season was a difficult one, as Henry was injured for a while, we crashed out of CL by PSV, Cesc wasn't scoring as Gilberto ended up our highest scoring player with something like 12 goals (several of them being penalties).

Only at the start of 2007/08 when Gilberto was injured, Flamini started playing regularly which caused Gilberto to drop to the bench and the captain's armband was given to Gallas

 

[db10_therza]

Think you’re being overly critical. Flamini fully benched Gilberto from 2006 onwards because he was better.

Was an amazing LB in our run to the CL final in 2005/06 as well.

Clichy was good enough to be a starter on a PL winning team as evidenced by his later career.

We lost “world class” players in those positions but gained them in other areas. RVP is arguably the second best striker we’ve had in the Premier League era, Fabregas was the best creative midfielder we’ve ever had.

I don’t think he’s being harsh… he’s basically saying we went from goat to great… it’s more that it was the start of a trend which took us to some dark places.

 

[Rex Stone]

I don’t think he’s being harsh… he’s basically saying we went from goat to great… it’s more that it was the start of a trend which took us to some dark places.

But we went up a level in other positions is my point?

Fabregas was better than OAP Bergkamp and RVP was better than Wiltord or Kanu.

 

[Rex Stone]

A slight correction, Flamini benched Gilberto from the start of 2007/08 season.

A season earlier the 2006/07 season was a difficult one, as Henry was injured for a while, we crashed out of CL by PSV, Cesc wasn't scoring as Gilberto ended up our highest scoring player with something like 12 goals (several of them being penalties).

Only at the start of 2007/08 when Gilberto was injured, Flamini started playing regularly which caused Gilberto to drop to the bench and the captain's armband was given to Gallas

Flamini played every Game when we made CL final though

 

[db10_therza]

But we went up a level in other positions is my point?

Fabregas was better than OAP Bergkamp and RVP was better than Wiltord or Kanu.

On an individual level yes in some cases, but as a team?

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Think you’re being overly critical. Flamini fully benched Gilberto from 2006 onwards because he was better.

Was an amazing LB in our run to the CL final in 2005/06 as well.

Clichy was good enough to be a starter on a PL winning team as evidenced by his later career.

We lost “world class” players in those positions but gained them in other areas. RVP is arguably the second best striker we’ve had in the Premier League era, Fabregas was the best creative midfielder we’ve ever had.

Yeah but Gilberto was aging and becoming increasingly injury prone by this point. I think he ended up playing in Greece after the 07/08 season. Flamini may have been better than that Gilberto at that stage ( I'm still dubious on it tbh) but he was levels below the player Gilberto was in his prime.

Clichy was fine but going from A.Cole to him was a big downgrade. Cole to Clichy to Gibbs, it's just downhill all the way.

I'm dubious on RVP being our second best striker in the PL era just based on fitness and longevity. Wright would be my number 2. 07/08 RVP was constantly injured when he was earmarked as our main guy. Think he played like 12-15 PL games that season. Story of his career here apart from 2 seasons.

I probably am being overly negative tbf it's just from 98-2005ish the standards at the club were so high. By this point that was dropping quite noticeably and for understandable reasons. Finances were tough, Chelsea were really pushing beyond us. Our best players were leaving us or aging out. The squad was being fleshed out with some pretty subpar players due to financial constraints etc

I enjoyed a lot of the football but it's not an era I look back on with much fondness compared to what came before it. It's about this time we went from a top, top side every year to a top 4 side that could have a run at the title every now and again. I didn't enjoy that.

 

[Rex Stone]

Yeah but Gilberto was aging and becoming increasingly injury prone by this point. I think he ended up playing in Greece after the 07/08 season. Flamini may have been better than that Gilberto at that stage ( I'm still dubious on it tbh) but he was levels below the player Gilberto was in his prime.

Clichy was fine but going from A.Cole to him was a big downgrade. Cole to Clichy to Gibbs, it's just downhill all the way.

I'm dubious on RVP being our second best striker in the PL era just based on fitness and longevity. Wright would be my number 2. 07/08 RVP was constantly injured when he was earmarked as our main guy. Think he played like 12-15 PL games that season. Story of his career here apart from 2 seasons.

I probably am being overly negative tbf it's just from 98-2005ish the standards at the club were so high. By this point that was dropping quite noticeably and for understandable reasons. Finances were tough, Chelsea were really pushing beyond us. Our best players were leaving us or aging out. The squad was being fleshed out with some pretty subpar players due to financial constraints etc

I enjoyed a lot of the football but it's not an era I look back on with much fondness compared to what came before it. It's about this time we went from a top, top side every year to a top 4 side that could have a run at the title every now and again. I didn't enjoy that.

Yeah just gonna have to chalk it up as a disagreement.

In my eyes there’s a clear reason we ran two incredible teams very close for the title.

Can’t do that with straight trash in the squad.

 

[Makingtrax]

Now this is a hypothetical I can get behind. Hamilton would win, the novice would crash the F1 car at turn 1..,

Car crash, pretty well sums up Arteta’s first two seasons.

 

[sergio_giorgini]

Car crash, pretty well sums up Arteta’s first two seasons.

And Wenger’s final season.

Could even argue the same for 2007/08 & 2015/16, the way they ended.

 

[Makingtrax]

And Wenger’s final season.

Could even argue the same for 2007/08 & 2015/16, the way they ended.

Lol. Even with haters like you abusing him and trying to force him out he still did better than Arteta in his first two seasons with the whole weight of fans and the club behind him, but then again he is a novice.

 

[Macho]

Car crash, pretty well sums up Arteta’s first two seasons.

Ignoring his first half season (which doesn't count ) his season after was a disgrace and a real low point. Crashing out of 4th in the following season too after certain decisions he made I'm at a loss as to how he got away with it.

It became irrelevant once they started piling in the money though. I flip flop on this but even if he doesn't get 4th, I don't know if he actually gets fired anymore I think he's past that.

 

[db10_therza]

Ignoring his first half season (which doesn't count ) his season after was a disgrace and a real low point. Crashing out of 4th in the following season too after certain decisions he made I'm at a loss as to how he got away with it.

It became irrelevant once they started piling in the money though. I flip flop on this but even if he doesn't get 4th, I don't know if he actually gets fired anymore I think he's past that.

I feel like you’re conflicted. Don’t get me wrong your views on arteta are consistent and clear, more in terms of your outlook and levels of optimism with our current to near term prospects. Some days it seems like you’re just about to crawl out of a well but then the smallest nudge sends you back in. Feel like you’re almost avoiding setting a bar for success and redemption just so you don’t have to close the door behind you.

 

[Macho]

I feel like you’re conflicted. Don’t get me wrong your views on arteta are consistent and clear, more in terms of your outlook and levels of optimism with our current to near term prospects. Some days it seems like you’re just about to crawl out of a well but then the smallest nudge sends you back in. Feel like you’re almost avoiding setting a bar for success and redemption just so you don’t have to close the door behind you.

Nah it's fully a hostage situation and I am just patiently waiting for this guys tenure to be over. I've genuinely never disliked a manager this much but it is what it is.

I think the only thing that would change that was if for whatever bizarre reason we had a convo and he explained to me some of his decisions and stuff, which is entitled admittedly but I'm only human.

 

[db10_therza]

Nah it's fully a hostage situation and I am just patiently waiting for this guys tenure to be over. I've genuinely never disliked a manager this much but it is what it is.

I think the only thing that would change that was if for whatever bizarre reason we had a convo and he explained to me some of his decisions and stuff, which is entitled admittedly but I'm only human.

So even if we win the league you’ll hate him?

 

[Makingtrax]

Ignoring his first half season (which doesn't count ) his season after was a disgrace and a real low point. Crashing out of 4th in the following season too after certain decisions he made I'm at a loss as to how he got away with it.

It became irrelevant once they started piling in the money though. I flip flop on this but even if he doesn't get 4th, I don't know if he actually gets fired anymore I think he's past that.

I think he’ll get 4th or above. This is a strange year. Chelsea and United are getting through managers like there’s no tomorrow, Liverpool in some sort of squad transitional period after a great run. Conte fairly new at Sp**s. There’s also a World Cup to disrupt the normal pattern of things.

This could be our one off, freak Leicester year. Just saying.