Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[scytheavatar]

£73mil is not nearly enough backing for Arteta. There is a wage budget and a transfer budget, they’re not one in the same. Arteta wanted to keep Auba, as did the fans, but he’s not negotiating contracts is he?

It is more than what Arteta should be getting from an Europa league club with a Champions League wage bill.......... Arteta should be grateful we are not telling him to sell more players. We already have far bigger a wage bill than what we should have for the quality of our players.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

It is more than what Arteta should be getting from an Europa league club with a Champions League wage bill.......... Arteta should be grateful we are not telling him to sell more players. We already have far bigger a wage bill than what we should have for the quality of our players.

My original point was that Emery was backed a lot more. Arteta’s not responsible for our wage bill. He needs a lot more backing to get us to where we need to be. We were outspent by clubs like Aston Villan last summer. It’s shameful. Imagine what he could do if he had £200m to spend.

 

[scytheavatar]

My original point was that Emery was backed a lot more. Arteta’s not responsible for our wage bill. He needs a lot more backing to get us to where we need to be. We were outspent by clubs like Aston Villan last summer. It’s shameful. Imagine what he could do if he had £200m to spend.

Wages matter more for a club than transfer fees........ transfer fess can be recouped by player sales. Wages are sunk costs that you must pay no matter what. The Kroenkes are already backing Arteta heavily by offering Willian a dumbass contract that not even Chelsea is willing to give. Remember Lampard wanted to keep Willian and even he was told no. Also by offering Auba wages which, let's face it, no other club in the world would have given him.

 

[krackpot]

Don't think you understand, we are already doing these players a massive favor by tearing up their contracts. Other big clubs would have refused to let their deadwood go without getting at least a bit in transfer fees for them. We are already treating our players better than we really should. Let's not sugarcoat what these senior players are, they are the failures that led to Wenger and Emery being fired from this club despite being given numerous chances. They have no rights to complain about being treated poorly by the club.

In some cases like Cazorla, yes. Not in cases like Sokratis. He did nothing wrong to be treated like that.

As you said, Wenger eventually paid the price for supporting so many mediocre players. Now we are going too far in the opposite direction.

The real reason we cancelled the contract is the other players were getting agitated by how ridiculous the situation was, when you have a perfectly good player sitting out of the squad.

 

[scytheavatar]

In some cases like Cazorla, yes. Not in cases like Sokratis. He did nothing wrong to be treated like that.

He did nothing wrong except make a howler every game during our late season collapse in 2018/19? Sokratis has always been a worse version of Vermaelen, and has been a big reason for Emery's downfall.

As you said, Wenger eventually paid the price for supporting so many mediocre players. Now we are going too far in the opposite direction.

We gave these players chances to prove they are special and irreplaceable, what can we do when they end up not being good enough to stay in our club? What do you suggest we do?

 

[krackpot]

He did nothing wrong except make a howler every game during our late season collapse in 2018/19? Sokratis has always been a worse version of Vermaelen, and has been a big reason for Emery's downfall.

We gave these players chances to prove they are special and irreplaceable, what can we do when they end up not being good enough to stay in our club? What do you suggest we do?

I don't know what we should have done really. Sent him out on loan? but he might have refused.

Here is the review from Arseblog:
2018/2019 Sokratis: He’s been fine, if not particularly spectacular. Has some attitude, which is welcome, but at times it borders on daft. 12 yellow cards are a consequence of that, and his suspensions coupled with some injuries have meant a stop-start kind of season for him. Benefits from not being Mustafi. 6.5/10

2019/2010: Didnt really play much.

As you can see, he wasn't really bad enough to be left out of the squad, and to be treated like he was a Mustafi. if we keep out a international player from the squad with 0 justification, what would the others think?

We keep making these panicky harebrained decisions, and I tell you we will gonna pay for them in the long term.

 

[scytheavatar]

I don't know what we should have done really. Sent him out on loan? but he might have refused.

Here is the review from Arseblog:
2018/2019 Sokratis: He’s been fine, if not particularly spectacular. Has some attitude, which is welcome, but at times it borders on daft. 12 yellow cards are a consequence of that, and his suspensions coupled with some injuries have meant a stop-start kind of season for him. Benefits from not being Mustafi. 6.5/10

2019/2010: Didnt really play much.

As you can see, he wasn't really bad enough to be left out of the squad, and to be treated like he was a Mustafi. if we keep out a international player from the squad with 0 justification, what would the others think?

We keep making these panicky harebrained decisions, and I tell you we will gonna pay for them in the long term.

It is not a panicky harebrained statement to say that almost none of our players have been playing at a level that makes them among the best in the league................. if they are not at that level then why are you pretending that they are so good that we need "justifications" to drop them? Who the freak is Sokratis and what has he done to make him undroppable? He's not even going to make it in the top 20 list of center backs to play for us, even rejects like Djourou and Senderos had shown more and contributed more than Sokratis ever did. Others think lowly of this club because if Sokratis was playing for Liverpool or Chelsea he would have been shown to the door much earlier. Why have we become a club that put mediocre players on a pedestal?

 

[krackpot]

It is not a panicky harebrained statement to say that almost none of our players have been playing at a level that makes them among the best in the league................. if they are not at that level then why are you pretending that they are so good that we need "justifications" to drop them? Who the freak is Sokratis and what has he done to make him undroppable? He's not even going to make it in the top 20 list of center backs to play for us, even rejects like Djourou and Senderos had shown more and contributed more than Sokratis ever did. Others think lowly of this club because if Sokratis was playing for Liverpool or Chelsea he would have been shown to the door much earlier. Why have we become a club that put mediocre players on a pedestal?

now we are badmouthing Sokratis and calling him a mediocre player. We did not release Senderos and Djourou btw.

AMN doesn't play anymore. Perhaps very soon we will start calling him mediocre too.

Liverpool do not cast out their players, and I do not even want to compare ourselves with Chelsea.

As much as I hated him, RvP has claimed many times that Gazidis deceived him.

There is a clear bias running through the club. I will not support Arsenal for every decision they make.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

In some cases like Cazorla, yes. Not in cases like Sokratis. He did nothing wrong to be treated like that.

As you said, Wenger eventually paid the price for supporting so many mediocre players. Now we are going too far in the opposite direction.

The real reason we cancelled the contract is the other players were getting agitated by how ridiculous the situation was, when you have a perfectly good player sitting out of the squad.

Don't see what the issue is.

Sokratis is a 32 year old player who was not registered in the squad and couldn't play for us. It's in no one's interest to keep him around. Not his, not the clubs.

We probably save a little money by mutually terminating his contract and Sokratis gets a nice lump of money and is free to find a club he will play for regularly in the limited time he has left in his career.

It's a win-win situation.

 

[scytheavatar]

now we are badmouthing Sokratis and calling him a mediocre player. We did not release Senderos and Djourou btw.

AMN doesn't play anymore. Perhaps very soon we will start calling him mediocre too.

Liverpool do not cast out their players, and I do not even want to compare ourselves with Chelsea.

As much as I hated him, RvP has claimed many times that Gazidis deceived him.

There is a clear bias running through the club. I will not support Arsenal for every decision they make.

Sokratis is a Dortmund reject.............. did Dortmund have to come out and give an explanation as to why they want him gone? If not then why do we need to?

You do not need to support every decision the higher ups make, I certainly am not going to pretend signing Willian ever made sense. What I do think you need to understand is that our current squad of players is nothing special, and there are very few of our players who we should shed tears for if we get rid of tomorrow. We have cleared a lot of our deadwood but the reality is we need clear a lot more to get our squad to the level we want it to be.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

Wages matter more for a club than transfer fees........ transfer fess can be recouped by player sales. Wages are sunk costs that you must pay no matter what. The Kroenkes are already backing Arteta heavily by offering Willian a dumbass contract that not even Chelsea is willing to give. Remember Lampard wanted to keep Willian and even he was told no. Also by offering Auba wages which, let's face it, no other club in the world would have given him.

Heavily? Willian’s paid £100k p/w over 3 years, which comes at £15.5m in total, paid per week over that 3 years. You really think that is”backing Arteta heavily”?
As for the Auba contract what choice was there?

None of this is heavy backing. Key sticking point is transfer fees. Emery got £215m, compared to £73m on Arteta. Arteta needs the chance to be given the players he wants. He hasn’t has that yet. Besides, if he had money to spend on a transfer he wouldn’t have gone for Willian on a free. Arteta’s been poorly backed. Outspent by Aston Villa.

 

[krackpot]

Don't see what the issue is.

Sokratis is a 32 year old player who was not registered in the squad and couldn't play for us. It's in no one's interest to keep him around. Not his, not the clubs.

We probably save a little money by mutually terminating his contract and Sokratis gets a nice lump of money and is free to find a club he will play for regularly in the limited time he has left in his career.

It's a win-win situation.

why didn't they do it in the summer? they dropped him from the squad, ostracized him, and now terminated his contract.

Sokratis is a Dortmund reject.............. did Dortmund have to come out and give an explanation as to why they want him gone? If not then why do we need to?

You do not need to support every decision the higher ups make, I certainly am not going to pretend signing Willian ever made sense. What I do think you need to understand is that our current squad of players is nothing special, and there are very few of our players who we should shed tears for if we get rid of tomorrow. We have cleared a lot of our deadwood but the reality is we need clear a lot more to get our squad to the level we want it to be.

Sokratis was captain of Dortmund, not a reject. we bought him for a lot of money.

we have had this problem of deadwood since a long time, and we have always given a chance and shown dignity. Even Frimpong played games when he was with us. This is disgusting behavior, however..

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Between the FA cup and the community shield, what was that, 4 weeks? Players were on holiday for 3 of those weeks. It’s normally 7 weeks. Pre season is normally when a manager works with his squad to implement new tactics and such. The lack of a proper pre season has had a huge effect, on everything. It’s no coincidence the table is the way it is, there are similarities all around Europe. There’s also no fans.

Why do you feel the need to go to these extreme lenghts to justify everything Arteta does? Mikel is a rookie manager who inevitably will make a lot of mistakes but you are always coming up with more and more outrageous opinion to back him. Most people here want him to succeed. Majority probably don't think he will because of what they have seen so far, but I would say most are still keeping an open mind about that and their opinions will change depending on results/performances.

Do you even believe in your own arguments? I mean genuinely do you think for example it is worth mentioning Arteta was disadvantaged because pre season was shorter than normal? When every other manager was in exact same situation? If you do then you have to wonder why that is. You also mention no fans as another disadvantage. Really? When it is well known our fans are one of the quietest and least intimidating in the league. If any team was going to miss their fans the least it would be us, yet you think you can mention that as a handicap for Arteta.

Emery had £215m of backing during the transfer windows under his stewardship. Arteta has had only £73m of backing since he’s been here. You work out the difference. You may say Emery wanted Zaha not Pepe, but Arteta didn’t get his preferred signing in Aouar.

Again you are being disingenuous. You know well that Emery was in charge for 2 summer transfer windows, Arteta for 1, of course his spend is going to be more. That doesn't mean he was backed more than Arteta. If you actually look what they got in their first summer window...it is pretty much the same. Now considering Arteta's window was during a global pandemic where money was tight you could even argue he was backed more in that case. You also conveniently forget the fact Emery lost the likes of Ramsey, Iwobi, Monreal, Kos, Mihki, Welbeck etc. Meaning he had to replace a lot of first team players whereas Arteta didn't need to do that.

People are more likely to take your points seriously if it at least looks like a genuine opinion. But when you are always stretching this far to make an argument you start to lose credibility very quickly.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

Why do you feel the need to go to these extreme lenghts to justify everything Arteta does? Mikel is a rookie manager who inevitably will make a lot of mistakes but you are always coming up with more and more outrageous opinion to back him. Most people here want him to succeed. Majority probably don't think he will because of what they have seen so far, but I would say most are still keeping an open mind about that and their opinions will change depending on results/performances.

Do you even believe in your own arguments? I mean genuinely do you think for example it is worth mentioning Arteta was disadvantaged because pre season was shorter than normal? When every other manager was in exact same situation? If you do then you have to wonder why that is. You also mention no fans as another disadvantage. Really? When it is well known our fans are one of the quietest and least intimidating in the league. If any team was going to miss their fans the least it would be us, yet you think you can mention that as a handicap for Arteta.


Again you are being disingenuous. You know well that Emery was in charge for 2 summer transfer windows, Arteta for 1, of course his spend is going to be more. That doesn't mean he was backed more than Arteta. If you actually look what they got in their first summer window...it is pretty much the same. Now considering Arteta's window was during a global pandemic where money was tight you could even argue he was backed more in that case. You also conveniently forget the fact Emery lost the likes of Ramsey, Iwobi, Monreal, Kos, Mihki, Welbeck etc. Meaning he had to replace a lot of first team players whereas Arteta didn't need to do that.

People are more likely to take your points seriously if it at least looks like a genuine opinion. But when you are always stretching this far to make an argument you start to lose credibility very quickly.

It is the same for everyone. It wasn’t the same for Emery though. Look at the league table and the table across Europe and you will see extraordinary things. A direct result of the strange situation that we are in. Nothing about what we’re going through is normal. Circumstances are to be judged as extraordinary circumstances. Arteta would have had a plan before coming here that would have been blown out the window due to situation we’re under, and yes, it’s affected transfers too. No fans has been a strange situation too, and that’s the point, being that nothing is normal so we cannot judge things as we normally do.

Emery got players to fill the positions he wants. We lost Özil and didn’t sign an AM in the summer, even though one was Arteta’s top priority. We’ve been left with a situation where ESR is the only AM at our club. This is nothing but poor financial backing that led to this. Emery may have got 2 transfer windows but ultimately failed with £215m of backing. The players he lost were players he did not want, that’s not an excuse for him.

 

[DUFFMAN]

Is it a coincidence our results turned once we stopped playing Europa games?

Less time preparing for the Premier league games?

Teams have said its a massive distraction before.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

Is it a coincidence our results turned once we stopped playing Europa games?

Less time preparing for the Premier league games?

Teams have said its a massive distraction before.

Had an effect, certainly. I think it’s more to do with the chopping and changing required. Doesn’t allow any chance to build momentum with a settled team.

 

[scytheavatar]

Heavily? Willian’s paid £100k p/w over 3 years, which comes at £15.5m in total, paid per week over that 3 years. You really think that is”backing Arteta heavily”?

Don't believe for a moment that Willian is paid £100k p/w, that is an unbelievable lie. He is obviously paid far more than that because whatever he was paid is an amount which Chelsea laughed at the idea of paying. And even £100k p/w is quite a sizeable amount to pay.

As for the Auba contract what choice was there?

Sell him? We regret giving Özil his fat contract which he didn't deserve and we will regret doing the same for Auba. You can complain about how difficult it will be to replace him but it's not like Auba has been doing much this season.

None of this is heavy backing. Key sticking point is transfer fees. Emery got £215m, compared to £73m on Arteta. Arteta needs the chance to be given the players he wants. He hasn’t has that yet. Besides, if he had money to spend on a transfer he wouldn’t have gone for Willian on a free. Arteta’s been poorly backed. Outspent by Aston Villa.

Based on the results of that £73m spending if I am Kroenke I would hesitate to give more money for Arteta to spend cause it looks like the squad has gotten worse after the spending............ Arteta cannot complain about not being backed when he is not getting the best out of his current players.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

The squad is bloated and lacking quality. It seems the issue with Sokratis has been settled in an amicable way. I do not see the issue here. The club and player has come to a mutual agreement on terminating the contract.

Thus allowing the player to find a new club, and Arsenal to trim the squad. It is these decisions the manager have to take now. We need to make room for better and younger players. Our challenge is to move on players that are on big contracts, especially in the current market...

 

[Jack_the_boy]

Don't believe for a moment that Willian is paid £100k p/w, that is an unbelievable lie. He is obviously paid far more than that because whatever he was paid is an amount which Chelsea laughed at the idea of paying. And even £100k p/w is quite a sizeable amount to pay.



Sell him? We regret giving Özil his fat contract which he didn't deserve and we will regret doing the same for Auba. You can complain about how difficult it will be to replace him but it's not like Auba has been doing much this season.



Based on the results of that £73m spending if I am Kroenke I would hesitate to give more money for Arteta to spend cause it looks like the squad has gotten worse after the spending............ Arteta cannot complain about not being backed when he is not getting the best out of his current players.

Fans wanted Auba to stay. He couldn’t be replaced. He was scoring for fun. Nobody could’ve predicted his dip in form. Extending Auba was the right choice.

Arteta deserved £200m of backing in the summer for winning the FA cup alone. Imagine what Arteta could’ve done with Frank Lampard’s budget.

As for Willian I believe it’s £100k p/w with a £10mil signing on fee. Not a huge deal.

 

[El Duderino]

The squad is bloated and lacking quality. It seems the issue with Sokratis has been settled in an amicable way. I do not see the issue here. The club and player has come to a mutual agreement on terminating the contract.

Thus allowing the player to find a new club, and Arsenal to trim the squad. It is these decisions the manager have to take now. We need to make room for better and younger players. Our challenge is to move on players that are on big contracts, especially in the current market...

Think the problem with Sokratis is that he is yet another player Arsenal have had to either loan out to death or let leave on a free because we're pretty terrible when it comes to contracts.

It was bad with Law and Wenger, continued with Fahmy and now Edu's kept the tradition alive with Willian and Cedric.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad these players are finally leaving, but at some point we need to get said players on contracts structures that will make it easier to sell them if they don't pan out.

The recent Cedric and Willian examples come to mind, since they are on high wages respective to their roles at the club.