Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel

On a scale from 1-10 (the most), how much faith do you have in Arteta?

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Results are only viewable after voting.

GDeep™

Dissociating
This will be an Edu problem more than an Arteta one no? His job is meant to ben ensuring we follow a certain way of doing things i.e. play style and age profile so that even when Arteta leaves the club, the next manager can be profiled based on our 'vision'.

If Arteta wants washed up mercenaries Edu should be strong enough to say no. If they didnt learn from Özil and Willian with these large contracts then there is officially no hope for this club.

Surely teams these days should be building squads and bringing managers in to compliment all of that, rather than shapeshifting based on the manager's way of thinking. Managers come and go way too often these days to do that, and its why I think United struggled in the Moyes/LvG/Mourinho period.

That’s the issue, you need someone to have this vision and then hire in accordance. Hire a DoF, manager who buy young, play a certain way etc. We don’t have that, you need someone above the DoF to have that vision.

This is one of the reasons why guys like Saliba, Guendouzi, Martinelli have been cast aside for older players.
 

GDeep™

Dissociating
Working great for some of our most recent expensive acquisitions isn’t it?

and people want to give this guy more money :lol:

Whatever man he will get his funds anyways so let’s see what becomes of these new players. No secret I don’t think they will amount to much unless they are in the league already.
Won’t be much funds in the summer without any European football. We’re selling guys like Saliba to bring some cash in, I think,
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted
Working great for some of our most recent expensive acquisitions isn’t it?

and people want to give this guy more money :lol:


Whatever man he will get his funds anyways so let’s see what becomes of these new players. No secret I don’t think they will amount to much unless they are in the league already.
I don't understand what you were referencing in the bolded part please elaborate bro. You mean Saliba and Pepe? That again falls down on weak DoF management imo. Manager's have their rep on the line theres an element of selfishness to their management, I think we are too used to Wenger who committed some dirty work to us almost like a mother. Arteta is tryna prove himself and won't look too much into the long term if he's not prompted to.

But yeah about the last bit you said, if he gets a lot of money and too much say on the type of players we sign (going onto buy washed up players or older ones in general) then of course he is a problem but he won't be the root of the problem; Edu will. Imo if Arteta does funky **** next summer and we do bad then Edu needs to be getting his notice as well as Arteta.
 

Melquiades

Well-Known Member
Now you've hit the nail on the head. You want to hold Arteta to different standards to Arsène and Unai.

Well I don't, they all should be held to exactly the same standards. Unai only got 18 months and has a better record, Wenger was forced out with a campaign after coming 2nd ffs.

Arteta is in the bottom half of the table come March and everybody's still supporting him. He's on £5m a year in a results based business, and its pretty obvious he's not going to improve on Unai's 5th place any time soon.

All that's happening is that expectations and standards are sliding fast. And don't even start me 0n the style of football.

So what you're saying is that if we made a mistake firing Wenger, we should just continue repeating that mistake into infinity when every single manager brought in here can't meet unrealistic expectations?

It feels like you're so bitter about Wenger that you just want to burn everything to the ground out of spite.

Personally I don't give two ****s about Wenger at this point. I'm going to judge whatever manager we have going forward based on how he performs with the roster he has, the decisions about new players brought into the team, and whether the team is improving and moving in a positive direction.

The level of player in this squad clearly dropped a huge amount between 2016 and 2020. I don't think anyone could possibly deny this. To judge a new manager coming into the team with a much worse squad than prior managers by the same standard as those managers is abjectly ridiculous.
 

GDeep™

Dissociating
I don’t hate too many complaints with Arteta, my main issue is some of the transfers and use of the squad.

Instead of signing all these old crap players and loaning trash, you could’ve played and developed the young talent we have here. Or signed better.

I mean we’re nearly 14th with what we’ve signed and loaned.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Are we getting to the stage where some fans are judging Arteta for losing more often that not to Man City? Incredible. Every manager in the league bar possibly Klopp is a failure if that's the bar we're setting.

There are plenty of reasonable reasons to be sceptical of Arteta or an outright Arteta outer, games against Man City aren't one of them though.

If you can please quote what precisely you are responding to. The most recent loss to City doesn’t bother me so much as the first leg against Benfica and the loss at Villa Park, but I can see how the manner of the loss to City can bother some. Even though it was a one goal margin City totally dominated and were barely out of first gear. OK, they are a handful for everyone right now, but the week before I did see Everton at least go at them hard over the first half hour and test them a bit. In our case we barely showed anything with them dominating right from kickoff.
 

GDeep™

Dissociating
So what you're saying is that if we made a mistake firing Wenger, we should just continue repeating that mistake into infinity when every single manager brought in here can't meet unrealistic expectations?

It feels like you're so bitter about Wenger that you just want to burn everything to the ground out of spite.

Personally I don't give two ****s about Wenger at this point. I'm going to judge whatever manager we have going forward based on how he performs with the roster he has, the decisions about new players brought into the team, and whether the team is improving and moving in a positive direction.

The level of player in this squad clearly dropped a huge amount between 2016 and 2020. I don't think anyone could possibly deny this. To judge a new manager coming into the team with a much worse squad than prior managers by the same standard as those managers is abjectly ridiculous.
Again, the bulk of this roster is signed or extended under Arteta - up to 12 players I think, and we’re nearly 14th or something.

Also, Leno, Gabriel, Tierney, Partey, Auba etc is better than what we had between 2016-18.
 

American_Gooner

Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so.
Moderator
That’s the issue, you need someone to have this vision and then hire in accordance. Hire a DoF, manager who buy young, play a certain way etc. We don’t have that, you need someone above the DoF to have that vision.

the irony is that someone like Gazidis would be the only one at the club who would be in position to identify and then go get someone like him
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted
I don't understand what you were referencing in the bolded part please elaborate bro. You mean Saliba and Pepe? That again falls down on weak DoF management imo. Manager's have their rep on the line theres an element of selfishness to their management, I think we are too used to Wenger who committed some dirty work to us almost like a mother. Arteta is tryna prove himself and won't look too much into the long term if he's not prompted to.

But yeah about the last bit you said, if he gets a lot of money and too much say on the type of players we sign (going onto buy washed up players or older ones in general) then of course he is a problem but he won't be the root of the problem; Edu will. Imo if Arteta does funky **** next summer and we do bad then Edu needs to be getting his notice as well as Arteta.
So Arteta needs his players but Edu gets the blame if they are bums? Great.

I guess that’s how he’s gotten this Willian thing off.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted
So Arteta needs his players but Edu gets the blame if they are bums? Great.

I guess that’s how he’s gotten this Willian thing off.
Your criticism of Arteta is clearly stretching into other areas of the management of this club, areas which are more down to other people. Apparently Arteta is Arsène Wenger and is meant to single handedly run the club now. But the man who hires him and who is meant to oversee our vision/transfers is blameless, okay.
 
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dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray

the irony is that someone like Gazidis would be the only one at the club who would be in position to identify and then go get someone like him

Isn't that basically Edu's job? I never understood the difference between a technical director, sporting director, director of football, head of recruitment etc, seems like the same job to me. Utd look like the club who need him more, but he'd be good here too, not sure how that fits in with Edu though.
 

GDeep™

Dissociating
For me there is no discussion to be had really on Arteta and his future. He’ll be here next season, and rightly so, and he’ll live/die on his results, he’ll get sacked if he’s not getting top 6 next season.

I can talk on this season and is say it’s been terrible - wether it’s the eye test or the numbers, I mean we’re on course for less points than Wenger in his worst ever season.
 

GDeep™

Dissociating
Isn't that basically Edu's job? I never understood the difference between a technical director, sporting director, director of football, head of recruitment etc, seems like the same job to me. Utd look like the club who need him more, but he'd be good here too, not sure how that fits in with Edu though.
All the same roles, technical, sporting director of football etc.

Apparently Overmars is available in the summer. Being Dutch and part of the Ajax system, you suspect his model is more geared towards developing young players.
 

dashsnow17

Sounds Like Hairspray
All the same roles, technical, sporting director of football etc.

Apparently Overmars is available in the summer. Being Dutch and part of the Ajax system, you suspect his model is more geared towards developing players.

So there's really only room for one and Edu's our guy right now. It's not even a year since they sacked Raul, i'd be surprised if Edu was moved on already. I guess we stick with him and Arteta and if it goes tits up next season both of them probably go.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Again, the bulk of this roster is signed or extended under Arteta - up to 12 players I think, and we’re nearly 14th or something.

Also, Leno, Gabriel, Tierney, Partey, Auba etc is better than what we had between 2016-18.

I’m not so hard on him on signings, unlike squad utilisation (which I am not happy with). Gabriel and Partey were good buys, I’m also ok with Mari for depth. The main problem is Willian although this is in general a better rate of success than before Arteta came in. It’s hard to say Arteta has had the good of Tierney and Partey when they’ve been out injured so much.
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted
Your criticism of Arteta is clearly stretching into other areas of the management of this club, areas which are more down to other people. Apparently Arteta is Arsène Wenger and is meant to single handedly run the club now. But the man who hires him and who is meant to oversee our vision/transfers is blameless, okay.
Not what I’m saying tbh, but let’s just leave it here. Arteta will get his players anyways, let’s see what happens.
 

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