Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel

Should Mikel Be Criticised For Giving Willian £200k a week?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Mikel Knows Best and He 👏 Doesn't 👏 Owe 👏 You 👏 An 👏 Explanation


Results are only viewable after voting.

OnlyOne

Hated for Telling the Tuchel Truth
Trusted
WTF is that post? I don't agree with with @say yes but at least there's a half intelligent discussion going on about football, spending and the position of Arteta in the league ffs.

This forum needs to rethink it's trusted status. :lol:

Just sharing my dream, was weird as f*ck and now I feel guilty attacking the man. Can't wait for Thursday.
 

say yes

Not Trusted
Trusted
There’s only a £200m gap between all the clubs outside the top 8. That’s the same gap between City spending 1st and United 2nd. That means there’s 12 clubs pretty much bunched on similar spending.

The top 8 it rises exponentially arriving at City. So those 8, Leicester, Sp**s, Everton, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, United, City, have an ever increasing advantage over the rest.

The gap is actually growing not diminishing and it’s a function of mathematics. 2015/16 City was spending around £450m and the bottom club around £50m. That’s 9 times the difference. Now City are spending around £1bn and the bottom £100m, that’s 10 times. Not much in it you might say. But now let’s look at the difference. In 2015/16 it was £400m, but in 20/21 its £900m. That’s a lot of extra player quality right there.

The league is getting easier for the top clubs and all these record number of points and longest winning streaks are showing it.


3-A7-A929-D-242-F-4411-BE46-6723-C2-D73659.jpg
What's this table / those numbers @Makingtrax ?

You've said that City are spending about £1bn and the bottom club £100m. Based on what? If it's total spend over e.g. a 10y period, it's not showing the current trend of spend over the last few years is it? E.g. the current bottom club (Sheffield United) have spent £121m in the last two years; City £304m. That's a significant gap, but it's not 10x as much, and surely you appreciate the marginal gain of spend decreases the higher those figures go.

More importantly, I was talking about the degree of spend within the league and, in particular, the top 10, not the ratio of spend between 1 vs 20. I will assume you've misread me, rather than being disingenuous by diverting down that tangent.

On which note, I asked a simple question which you haven't answered - do you agree that squad cost applies to clubs in the league outside the top 6? And do you therefore agree that the quality of the league is increasing year-on-year at the moment given how much the lower clubs are spending? Again, there is nothing controversial in there (I hope).
 

mpower2540

Well-Known Member
The Burnley game may have broken me. I got some hope that we could finish in a Europe spot when we beat Leicester with quite a good game, but the Burnley game was back to being completely sh*te. Of course, it's not Arteta's fault that Xhaka had one of his blinders, but the team just completely fell apart after that moment, while we should've been 2 or 3-0 up.

I said in the Pepe thread watch him being binned after putting in a motm performance and of course Arteta stuck with Willian, who did **** all in the game except for a nondescript pass that became an assist.

I was in the 'give Arteta the season'-camp, and then decide at the end of the season whether our game had improved enough to stick with him. Now I'm just hoping we somehow manage to get a spot in one of the European cups and just sack him and go for a Tuchel type trainer if one becomes available (or get Ten Hag). I don't see enough improvement and I see him binning the future prospects for aging clowns and I've had enough.
This seems to have been part of the Arsenal DNA for ages, particularly away from home. When things are easy we can look great but the minute the pressure intensifies, particularly away from home we’ve got this ingrained idiocy about us.

I’ve never seen a team as good as us in making the simple look difficult or turn control into collapse. This needs fixing badly.

I always think back to the Bayern away game in 2017, went in at half time 1-1, well in the game and inexplicably went and conceded another 4 goals!! The utter stupidity that we’ve displayed over the years is so infuriating and we never seem to be able to fix it!!
 

Riou

A-M's Resident Jobber
Trusted
We need to settle the debate..."Is the Prremier League getting stronger or weaker?"

We need every poster to say what they think is the greatest Premiership season ever is, in their opinion, it's the only fair way...based on quality of teams, how difficult it was to win, player/manager quality etc.

Think I should make the thread, as that would annoy everyone the most!
 

Rex Banter

Got Swerved By Gallas
Trusted
You seen what Baleciagas are bringing back?
:shivering:

Yeah for women.

Ignoring whatever magazine or brand is trying to push for clicks, if in 2021 any heterosexual male leaves the home in bootcuts it will cause instant vaginal dryness and ridicule from everyone you meet.

Try telling a laughing tube that “GQ or Balenciaga says they’re cool” I beg.
 

say yes

Not Trusted
Trusted
We need to settle the debate..."Is the Prremier League getting stronger or weaker?"

We need every poster to say what they think is the greatest Premiership season ever is, in their opinion, it's the only fair way...based on quality of teams, how difficult it was to win, player/manager quality etc.

Think I should make the thread, as that would annoy everyone the most!
The average quality - mean and median is clearly stronger, and getting stronger every year. Top 4 has become a top 6, is becoming a top 7 and (with Everton and Aston Villa now having sugar daddies) turning into an increasingly competitive top 10. It's inevitable as the PL continues to hoover up all the world's top talent, outspending most of the other leagues combined. Exactly what you'd expect to happen when massive wealth meets an international supply of very good players.

The range is a slightly different picture. We curently have 1-2 absolutely elite clubs (City and formerly Liverpool) who have hit the sweet spot of world-class managers and incredible (expensive) squads; they beat up everyone. And we also have a soft bottom half of clubs who don't spend much and yo-yo between the divisions. My prediction would be that soft under-belly gradually shrinking as the money continues to flow down the league. Clubs like West Ham, Leeds and Wolves all have the capability to establish themselves as more competitive fixtures, in which case the top 10 becomes more of a top 12 and so on and so forth. Although I suppose the relegation carousel will ensure there are always about 5 (if not more) weaker clubs at the bottom.
 

GoonerJeeves

Up The Terriers
Trusted
Had an awful dream where I called Mikel out in front of a load of people, said it like it is and had a really heated discussion. He started crying and then told me both his parents died and then we went on to watch Arsenal lose 3-0 in some game in school cages where the opposition were trying to actively lose. :lol:

Anyway I felt awful once I woke up and now I really just want him to succeed, maybe this dream has changed my opinion on him.
giphy.gif
 

Maybe

Well-Known Member
The average quality - mean and median is clearly stronger, and getting stronger every year. Top 4 has become a top 6, is becoming a top 7 and (with Everton and Aston Villa now having sugar daddies) turning into an increasingly competitive top 10. It's inevitable as the PL continues to hoover up all the world's top talent, outspending most of the other leagues combined. Exactly what you'd expect to happen when massive wealth meets an international supply of very good players.
We still have a top 4 budget, so somebody is underperforming at the club, it's either manager or people doing business
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kav

say yes

Not Trusted
Trusted
We still have a top 4 budget, so somebody is underperforming at the club, it's either manager or people doing business
We have underperformed this season but we don't have a top 4 budget. We're 5th/6th with Sp**s.

City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool have all spent much more than us recently and will presumably continue to do so.
 

Rimaal

Questionable Taste
Had an awful dream where I called Mikel out in front of a load of people, said it like it is and had a really heated discussion. He started crying and then told me both his parents died and then we went on to watch Arsenal lose 3-0 in some game in school cages where the opposition were trying to actively lose. :lol:

Anyway I felt awful once I woke up and now I really just want him to succeed, maybe this dream has changed my opinion on him.

Stay away from dairy.
 

Kav

Well-Known Member
The entire league is stacked with talent, and it's getting stronger every year. The big 4 is now undeniably a big 6. How long before Leicester make it an official big 7? Then you have clubs like Everton and Villa who are spending heavily and have some fantastic players. Wolves with their agent connections etc.

The so called big 6 is merely an extension of the original top 4 ( Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Us). The only reason the big six term was created was because Liverpool had been so poor for many years that they were constantly finishing outside of the top 4 and the media wanted to include them in their hype of the league and promoting the so called best teams in it. They added City and Sp**s only because they couldn’t ignore them while Liverpool was being that bad. It really isn’t about performance when it comes to these monikers but more about institutional success.

However in terms of consistent top performances over the last 20+ years there have only been 3 teams ( Man U , Chelsea and Us ).

There have always been competitive clubs who push the top teams for a season or two, in the past it was Blackburn, Newcastle, Leeds, Aston Villa (Martin O’Neil) and Everton (moyes). This is nothing new. The league has always been competitive.

The major difference is at the top end in terms of quality. There are a lot more rubbish teams and a lot more rubbish players in the league now than say 10 years ago and that is because the fixture list requires teams to have bigger squads which invariably means less quality as they try to Have cover for all positions.

I don’t see where the actual fight for the title has been competitive between the teams recently either with the exception of the 2018/19 season it’s been a walk for whoever wins each year. Does that make it less competitive?

Also over the last decade it has been the same set of teams qualifying for most of the European competitions. Surely if it was as competitive as you say we would have had more teams breaking into the European competitions than the odd occasions with Leicester and Wolves.

There is also one phenomenon that a lot of posters are ignoring. The advent of the mega TV deals that have allowed the PL clubs to get significant income. This has allowed the smaller clubs to spend more than they usually have but also allowed the bigger clubs to increase their spending gap over the smaller clubs. In theory it should make the league more competitive but the practical effect is that it strengthens the disparity between the Successful sides and the rest that are there to make up the numbers.
 
Last edited:

Riou

A-M's Resident Jobber
Trusted
You’re a slippery one, are you Arteta In or out? Riou out here playing both sides.

I can’t trust someone who’s always flipping positions 🤔

I am 99% Arteta In...though I leave 1% free to mock Mikel, as it's an easy way to get likes ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kav

El Duderino

99 Problems But A Mitch Ain't One
Trusted
@say yes also, just because this is my 15th page reading this, I do think that when Arteta gave that interview in Spanish a lot of people - including Pro Arteta folks like Gunnerblog and Arseblog in their podcast - discussed how the players would take to listening to the manager saying 5-6 players on the current squad weren't good enough.

Their discussion in particular was around if the players would take it as an incentive to do better or get axed, or do worst because the manager didnot believe in them, and which of those players that were on this particular list.

I don't remember exactly when this interview came out and if its context was against the backdrop of our dreadful run of form (I feel it was), but this was discussed here and by a lot of the Arsenal Media people.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
What's this table / those numbers @Makingtrax ?

You've said that City are spending about £1bn and the bottom club £100m. Based on what? If it's total spend over e.g. a 10y period, it's not showing the current trend of spend over the last few years is it? E.g. the current bottom club (Sheffield United) have spent £121m in the last two years; City £304m. That's a significant gap, but it's not 10x as much, and surely you appreciate the marginal gain of spend decreases the higher those figures go.

More importantly, I was talking about the degree of spend within the league and, in particular, the top 10, not the ratio of spend between 1 vs 20. I will assume you've misread me, rather than being disingenuous by diverting down that tangent.

On which note, I asked a simple question which you haven't answered - do you agree that squad cost applies to clubs in the league outside the top 6? And do you therefore agree that the quality of the league is increasing year-on-year at the moment given how much the lower clubs are spending? Again, there is nothing controversial in there (I hope).
You asked me a question about squad cost. Those are figures for 20/21 published in the press every year for the amount invested by each club to buy the players in their squad. My answer shows you trends over the last 5 years and shows that there is a greater disparity in the league than there was. 5 years ago. The rich are getting richer and gap wider.

I don’t believe the quality of the league is getting any higher than it was 5 years ago either, because although the investment in squads has more than doubled over the last 5 years for EPL teams of all budgets, so has the average transfer fee for players. The average player cost £8.5m in 2015/16, in 19/20 it was £16.1m. I don’t have the figure for 20/21 but It will likely be more. If you have any evidence to the contrary let’s see it.
 

Blood on the Tracks

Well-Known Member
We need to settle the debate..."Is the Prremier League getting stronger or weaker?"

We need every poster to say what they think is the greatest Premiership season ever is, in their opinion, it's the only fair way...based on quality of teams, how difficult it was to win, player/manager quality etc.

Think I should make the thread, as that would annoy everyone the most!

It's not about the PL being stronger or weaker for me.

The PL has become more competitive than it's ever been. I'd imagine that's mainly due to the huge TV rights deals. There's not a clearly defined top 4 or even top 6 these days. The days of us having a poor season and just having to scrap it out with Villa for 4th are well and truly gone.

I think what we've seen is the gulf between the naturally top clubs and the rest has contracted by quite a margin really. I think that gives the impression that the top clubs have weakened, when in reality I think it's more down to the rest taking big strides forward.

Liverpool last season and Man City this year are are still two of the best sides in the history of the PL.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Match Prediction

  • Arsenal Win

    Votes: 44 88.0%
  • Draw

    Votes: 4 8.0%
  • Fulham Win

    Votes: 2 4.0%
Top