Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Makingtrax]

Bro, every club outside of West Brom has made its record signing in the last 4 years. You can't act like the landscape hasn't changed when Everton go from signing Cahill for £1m and Pienaar for £2.5m to Sigurdsson for £45m and Richarilson for £35m.

How about looking at the facts I posted and telling me where the argument is wrong, instead of posting about a club who signed Pienaar in 2012 but had a big change of ownership in 2016. Any club can spend more if they get new billionaire owners ffs.

 

[say yes]

Makingtrax, 2016-2021: Skills, Goals and Assists

 

[A_G]

How about looking at the facts I posted and telling me where the argument is wrong, instead of posting about a club who signed Pienaar in 2012 but had a big change of ownership in 2016. Any club can spend more if they get new billionaire owners ffs.

I'm not sure what the argument is exactly. You said this:

2015/16 City was spending around £450m and the bottom club around £50m. That’s 9 times the difference. Now City are spending around £1bn and the bottom £100m, that’s 10 times. Not much in it you might say. But now let’s look at the difference. In 2015/16 it was £400m, but in 20/21 its £900m. That’s a lot of extra player quality right there.

In terms of actual quality, the increased spending at City has been negligible at City compared to the effect it's had lower down the league. It's all relative.

And if you don't like the Everton example, look at Bournemouth spending £20m + on three occasions since 2017.

 

[Macho]

What exactly is the argument? I don't quite get it anymore.

The league is harder, everybody spends, so give Arteta a f*ck ton of money until he has one of the best teams in the league - is this what people are saying?

 

[scytheavatar]

My point back was that back then it was United. Now it's United, Man City, and Chelsea. Yeah, Chelsea had good players back then but now it's Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal... Not to mention that Everton and Leicester have been showing a lot of ambition.

Wenger is the greatest manager of all-time in the league. Just because he could come in and be an instant hit that doesn't mean everyone can do it.

All I'm saying is that there are other routes that can be explored. Sometimes manager needs backing both with resources and time. And maybe it is alright to explore that option too. Arteta is in his first full season as manager and it didn't go as well as we hoped for. He still has shown some signs that there could be better times next season. The defense has improved and that with absolute bums of players in these positions. We are playing well out of the back and beating pressure very well many times. It took a long time but we are creating chances now. Arteta's star player is 19 years old and has developed very well under him. Saka could even be better next season.

If we sack Arteta after this season so be it. It will be interesting to see who comes next. But expecting managers to have an instant impact just because Wenger, one of the greatest of all time did it is unfair imo. Especially at a club that not only lacks resources compared to rivals but also ambition from the owner to surround that manager with top scouts and all that.

You don't understand how things work............... Arteta is a manager not a player. Managers are leaders, and leaders come into their position with some degree of capital. Some degree of authority that forces his subordinates to listen to what he wants to do without questions. If the leader doesn't produce results and doesn't make his subordinates feel he's the one to lead then he's going to lose his authority and power very rapidly. Like if you are someone like Partey why would you want Arteta to be your manager if he's going to take 3 years before he can get the team competing for top 4 again? Why would you want to leave Atletico for a club that's not going to be in the CL during your prime years? Things are worse for someone like Auba cause he's wasting the rest of his career.

You can bet that if we finish outside the top 6 this season our players will start wondering why they should want to play for us rather than a club like Leicester. That actually has a manager who produces results.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

What exactly is the argument? I don't quite get it anymore.

The league is harder, everybody spends, so give Arteta a f*ck ton of money until he has one of the best teams in the league - is this what people are saying?

No not at all. Arteta can do like Klopp and Pep and not spend any money and still be competitve.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

You don't understand how things work............... Arteta is a manager not a player. Managers are leaders, and leaders come into their position with some degree of capital. Some degree of authority that forces his subordinates to listen to what he wants to do without questions. If the leader doesn't produce results and doesn't make his subordinates feel he's the one to lead then he's going to lose his authority and power very rapidly. Like if you are someone like Partey why would you want Arteta to be your manager if he's going to take 3 years before he can get the team competing for top 4 again? Why would you want to leave Atletico for a club that's not going to be in the CL during your prime years? Things are worse for someone like Auba cause he's wasting the rest of his career.

You can bet that if we finish outside the top 6 this season our players will start wondering why they should want to play for us rather than a club like Leicester. That actually has a manager who produces results.

Ok.

 

[Kav]

What exactly is the argument? I don't quite get it anymore.

The league is harder, everybody spends, so give Arteta a f*ck ton of money until he has one of the best teams in the league - is this what people are saying?

I am not sure either but it sounds like they’re saying the league is more competitive therefore in the context of that increased competition then Arteta is not doing so bad and should be given more time and money to complete his project.

I will go no further as to the flaws in such an argument.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

I am not sure either but it sounds like they’re saying the league is more competitive therefore in the context of that increased competition then Arteta is not doing so bad and should be given more time and money to complete his project.

I will go no further as to the flaws in such an argument.

All Im saying is that just because Arteta hasnt been a instant hit it doesnt mean he cant improve. Its not in our hands to sack him. So all youre just doing is whining about things you cant control.

Im just saying some managers are instant hit like Arsène and some managers take 6 years to win the league like Alex.

 

[Hunta]

How’s it going hydro? You still touching farm animals?

 

[Macho]

Its not in our hands to sack him. So all youre just doing is whining about things you cant control.

I agree with this bit. He doesn't even have to win prem matches anymore so whilst I am disgruntled I've accepted it.

If we didn't sack him last year then as far as I'm concerned he's untouchable for the rest of this season atleast.

Where I am confused is how much investment people were expecting, because in my opinion Arteta was hired for a reason. If the team is "far far away" from what he wants then I don't really know what that means.

We make one or two marquee signings per summer, how many summers and £££ is that gonna take?

 

[Kav]

All Im saying is that just because Arteta hasnt been a instant hit it doesnt mean he cant improve. Its not in our hands to sack him. So all youre just doing is whining about things you cant control.

Im just saying some managers are instant hit like Arsène and some managers take 6 years to win the league like Alex.

You’re completely right. There is no one way that this thing works. I also agree there is nothing to suggest that he won’t improve or become a good manager eventually.

However he has been here for 15 months already and so far it has been a very mixed bag in terms of results and performances. He has also not shown very much to indicate that he’s capable of putting us at a level or two above where we are. I am cognizant of the fact that it won’t be all down to him about our success or failures. However he’s responsible for the results and as it pertains to this season specifically, they have been mediocre and should be unacceptable If our target is truly Champions League.

 

[Rex Stone]

No not at all. Arteta can do like Klopp and Pep and not spend any money and still be competitve.

Didn’t Klopp and Pep need big spending though at their teams?

 

[Makingtrax]

What exactly is the argument? I don't quite get it anymore.

The league is harder, everybody spends, so give Arteta a f*ck ton of money until he has one of the best teams in the league - is this what people are saying?

The league is getting harder so ‘mid table Mickey’ is doing OK,is the narrative now. Not long ago, ‘We should be challenging for the title so ‘top4 Arsène’ needs to go’ . . . . and wait fot it . . . . ItS tHe SamE pOsTers.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

How’s it going hydro? You still touching farm animals?

Never worked on a farm.

Why do you find animal abuse funny and something to use on your fellow AMer?

 

[yorch44]

All Im saying is that just because Arteta hasnt been a instant hit it doesnt mean he cant improve. Its not in our hands to sack him. So all youre just doing is whining about things you cant control.

Im just saying some managers are instant hit like Arsène and some managers take 6 years to win the league like Alex.

We can't control anything of Arsenal, so we all leave and delete this forum? Because if we can't argue about things we can't control there is no point of this forum.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

We can't control anything of Arsenal, so we all leave and delete this forum? Because if we can't argue about things we can't control there is no point of this forum.

I'm just saying it looks like we can't even afford to sack Arteta and his team and hire one of the elite coaches that is available.

If you want to talk about sacking Arteta and hire a new manager, sign Messi and Ronaldo, Mbappé and Neymar be my guest.

But I'm focusing on trying to see what Arteta can do with more time because it seems like he is going to get it. I think there is a reason to be hopeful of better times.

 

[say yes]

The league is getting harder so ‘mid table Mickey’ is doing OK,is the narrative now. Not long ago, ‘We should be challenging for the title so ‘top4 Arsène’ needs to go’ . . . . and wait fot it . . . . ItS tHe SamE pOsTers.

Nobody has said that. All that's happened is people have pointed out that you're talking nonsense, as per. Completely deranged.

But go on, keep spluttering your gobbledygook all over the forum.

 

[Makingtrax]

I'm not sure what the argument is exactly. You said this:

In terms of actual quality, the increased spending at City has been negligible at City compared to the effect it's had lower down the league. It's all relative.

And if you don't like the Everton example, look at Bournemouth spending £20m + on three occasions since 2017.

Eh? City’s squad cost has more than doubled in the last 5 years from £400m+ to £1000m+. Bournemouth aren’t in the Premier League, take West Brom. 5 years ago their squad cost was £60m, it’s just over £100m now. So City’s have spent £600m extra and West Brom £40m+ extra. How exactly are the lower clubs benefitting more than City? The gap is ever widening bro and players are much more expensive, so it’s irrelevant if a lower team blows money on a £20m player.

 

[yorch44]

The league is getting harder so ‘mid table Mickey’ is doing OK,is the narrative now. Not long ago, ‘We should be challenging for the title so ‘top4 Arsène’ needs to go’ . . . . and wait fot it . . . . ItS tHe SamE pOsTers.

People doesn't realize a manager is more important even than players. He can make them look like worse players in the league or he can make an average group of players over perform. Football is a team sport.

We don't have that bad players. Everton, Leicester, Villa or Westham don't have better players. But they play better as a team. We definitely don't have players to stay at 10th place.

I never have seen a mid table with players with the quality of Pepe, Auba, Saka, ESR, Ceballos, Partey, Tierney, Leno and Gabriel. With that group and Saliba and Martinelli I can tell you wouldn't see a team performing like this if they would play with a better manager. Or even playing for the basics.