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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

GunnerUK

Active Member
Very fair point he would never have been given the same control at another club. On the other hand he had 0 support from the owner on the things that mattered like investment. For me the single biggest event that ****ed this club over was when Kroenke took over instead of Usmanov. Wenger with an owner like Usmanov would have crushed it.
Definitely. If he had left to go to Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern mid 00’s he would of won everything. This I’ve never doubted with their financial backing and his master ability to coach a team how could you doubt. Just think he was way to devoted to Arsenal.
 

GunnerUK

Active Member
Wenger would’ve got control wherever he went, more money, more funds etc. His issue was he was too invested in Arsenal, like @Riou said.

He should regret it now though, he could’ve done so much more with his career.
The expectations at these clubs though would of been far bigger. But I don’t doubt Wenger would of succeeded in all honesty.

you don’t miss out on C. Ronaldo for £400k at Madrid or Bayern like he did at Arsenal. We also have to asses the team he put together after the invincables. Hleb, Nasri, Van Persie, Fabregas, Adebayor ect.. if he kept this team together we could only imagine what could of been.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Wenger would’ve got control wherever he went, more money, more funds etc. His issue was he was too invested in Arsenal, like @Riou said.

He should regret it now though, he could’ve done so much more with his career.

In an alternative timeline, Arsène wins the Champions League in 2006, then leaves for the Madrid job he was offered that summer...I honestly believe he would've regretted doing that more, than not taking it like he did.

No matter how successful he would have been, or how crap we would have been...he always would have backed himself to do well at Arsenal, feel he never would have been able to get that out of his head, we were his home...him winning a football match here, meant something more to him.

He doesn't strike me as the type to overly care about the trophies, he seemed to care more about the emotional side of the sport, something he had here....even with a section of the fanbase turning on him in a very poor manner in the 2010s, you can feel he just loved managing Arsenal...don't think he would trade his time here for anything.
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
The expectations at these clubs though would of been far bigger. But I don’t doubt Wenger would of succeeded in all honesty.

you wouldn't miss out on C. Ronaldo for £400k at Madrid or Bayern like he did at Arsenal. We also have to asses the team he put together after the invincables. Hleb, Nasri, Van Persie, Fabregas, Adebayor ect.. if he kept this team together we could only imagine what could of been.
Corrected the above. How was Wenger supposed to replace the invincibles and keep the team together when he didnt have the funds to do so?

Where on earth did you get 400k from?
 

GunnerUK

Active Member
In an alternative timeline, Arsène wins the Champions League in 2006, then leaves for the Madrid job he was offered that summer...
Do you think he would of though.

I’ve often thought about this situation and could be quite naive in thinking so. But if Arsenal won the game and won the CL could of we gone onto do what Barcelona done after beaten us that night - going onto being the best team on the planet. This after all was their lift off point and they we’re unstoppable for years after that night.

Anybody think we could of been capable of replicating that
 

GunnerUK

Active Member
Corrected the above. How was Wenger supposed to replace the invincibles and keep the team together when he didnt have the funds to do so?

Where on earth did you get 400k from?
Ronaldo was very close to joining Arsenal apparently but we come up short for around the sum of £400k and Manchester United swooped in. It’s well documented, Arsène even said it himself.

My point is if he was at another club like Madrid where he bought the likes of Ronaldo, Hleb, Nasri, Fabregas and RVP he would of been unstoppable.

Damn the season against Birmingham when Eduardo broke his leg we should of won the league and all the invincables we’re gone to my memory.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Do you think he would of though.

I’ve often thought about this situation and could be quite naive in thinking so. But if Arsenal won the game and won the CL could of we gone onto do what Barcelona done after beaten us that night - going onto being the best team on the planet. This after all was their lift off point and they we’re unstoppable for years after that night.

Anybody think we could of been capable of replicating that

Who knows.

Maybe in that universe, the club falls in the hands of Dein/Usmanov rather than Stan and Wenger also stays...then you are looking at peak Arsène and his eye for talent, being supported by Dein's immense work behind the scenes and Usmanov's ambition and money...what might have been...
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
he ended up being called a specialist in failure by Mourinho

being called a specialist in failure
Look, I absolutely hate Mourinho! In my book he is just a big piece of **** for saying that about Wenger! So you are not going to get any pushback from me there. He doesn't deserve to polish Wenger's toilet bowl in my view. I still wish Wenger would just have clocked him when they had their dust up several years ago. No doubt in my mind Wenger would just have laid him out flat if had wanted to. But guess he has too much class for that. Still bugs me though when I see that clip of Wenger and that low life ****.

Still, this is to my point, what other football manager has a fan base that loves him like we love Wenger? I was in the Wenger out camp. Times had passed him by and unfortunately he wasn't able to time his exit well and overstayed his welcome. Great champions usually do. They don't know when it is time to bow out. He should have left after one of the FA Cup wins against Aston Villa or Chelsea. Leave on a high and handed it over to e.g. to Klopp or Pep. That would have been it.
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
Who knows.

Maybe in that universe, the club falls in the hands of Dein/Usmanov rather than Stan and Wenger also stays...then you are looking at peak Arsène and his eye for talent, being supported by Dein's immense work behind the scenes and Usmanov's ambition and money...what might have been...
If something is going to do us in it isn't going to be Arteta, Emery or late stage Wenger. It will be Kroenke that tight fisted ****! Hope his son takes over soon! Maybe he either loosens the purse strings or sells the club. With our luck the bastard will live to a 103 or something... :mad:
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
Ronaldo was very close to joining Arsenal apparently but we come up short for around the sum of £400k and Manchester United swooped in. It’s well documented, Arsène even said it himself.

My point is if he was at another club like Madrid where he bought the likes of Ronaldo, Hleb, Nasri, Fabregas and RVP he would of been unstoppable.

Damn the season against Birmingham when Eduardo broke his leg we should of won the league and all the invincables we’re gone to my memory.
I would be really interested to read up on that if you have a link. As I understand it United came in with a bid that we couldnt match.

Wenger told Arsenal.com: “The obvious player [Arsenal missed out on] that comes to mind is Ronaldo. He was here with his mother and we were very close. Then Man United came in and they had Carlos Queiroz at the time, who was their coach. United played against Sporting Lisbon and Ronaldo was outstanding and they signed him.

“There is always something you could have done differently but the problem of negotiations is to know when you give in and when you don’t give in. Once we were at £4.5m, we were still in negotiations. David [Dein] met with [the agent Jorge] Mendes in Paris and he was representing Sporting, so we were very close but Man United went to £12m, which we could not afford.


I guess what you mean is that Wenger shouldnt have mucked about at the 4.5m mark and just paid whatever Sporting wanted to close the deal before United swooped in which is fair enough. On the other hand if we were rich enough we could have still closed the deal. Either way if Wenger was at Real Madrid Ronaldo would have joined them in 2003.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
If something is going to do us in it isn't going to be Arteta, Emery or late stage Wenger. It will be Kroenke that tight fisted ****! Hope his son takes over soon! Maybe he either loosens the purse strings or sells the club. With our luck the bastard will live to a 103 or something... :mad:
It’s Josh who runs the club now, no? To be fair to him, we’ve spent record amounts since Wenger has left, all gone to waste though under Raul and Arteta/Edu, most of the signings haven’t worked.

Also in your previous post you say Wenger moves and “handed” the club over to Klopp/Pep etc - first that’s not his job, the owners should not have extended Wenger and made whatever move they wanted. Second, Arsenal run on a budget wasn’t going to attract a Pep anyway, the guy needs 200M every summer just for fullbacks.

Since Wenger has left we have not attracted an elite manager. The narrative when he was here was that he’s holding us back and ANY decent guy will come and have us competing for titles again. If anything, we’re further declining, even with record spending post Wenger, we’re on course for back to back mid table finishes.
 

Kav

Established Member
Do you think he would of though.

I’ve often thought about this situation and could be quite naive in thinking so. But if Arsenal won the game and won the CL could of we gone onto do what Barcelona done after beaten us that night - going onto being the best team on the planet. This after all was their lift off point and they we’re unstoppable for years after that night.

Anybody think we could of been capable of replicating that

We didn’t have a players of Ronaldinho, Eto and Deco’s quality. They also had Messi, Xavi and iniesta (waiting in the background). They were bound to be a very good team to be fair.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
Wenger and Arsenal were a match made in heaven in a lot of ways.

Him going to Real or Bayern etc sounds great in principle but I don't think it would have made Wenger happy even if he did well. For the vast majority of his time here he was pretty much the king of the club, he had leeway that very few managers ever had and certainly wouldn't be the case at the super clubs.

At heart Wenger was a football idealist, a lot of things he was great at - style of football, promoting youth etc those things are great but at Real Madrid during that time if you finish 2nd in the league, you're getting sacked irrespective. He wouldn't have found the stability he thrived on at Arsenal at any of those clubs.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Since Wenger has left we have not attracted an elite manager. The narrative when he was here was that he’s holding us back and ANY decent guy will come and have us competing for titles again. If anything, we’re further declining, even with record spending post Wenger, we’re on course for back to back mid table finishes.
Don't remember DT telling us we'd have back to back mid table finishes once we'd kicked Arsène into the stands. Perhaps I missed it.
 

GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
Just to let the season take its course, take stock. Hope for a successful summer window, then the heat will be on.

Should we be in the same position towards Christmas, it is lights out.

I suspect that is pretty much in line with what the board is thinking. There isn't much more to it at this stage.

The fans hounded out Wenger and made the atmosphere toxic for the manager and the players, but we have to move on from that injustice.

If Arteta has us midtable by Christmas, he can have no complaints if given the sack. I suspect though that we will be in a better place then.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Just to let the season take its course, take stock. Hope for a successful summer window, then the heat will be on.

Should we be in the same position towards Christmas, it is lights out.

I suspect that is pretty much in line with what the board is thinking. There isn't much more to it at this stage.

The fans hounded out Wenger and made the atmosphere toxic for the manager and the players, but we have to move on from that injustice.

If Arteta has us midtable by Christmas, he can have no complaints if given the sack. I suspect though that we will be in a better place then.
Think we can all agree on this. Although there are still some on AM who don’t think Arsène was hounded out, and he would have fallen out of the top 4 even there hadn’t been a fan campaign.

But where we might all disagree, is where this ‘better place’ should be for Arteta to stay on? 5th/6th acceptable for another season (showing progress)? Has it got to be top 4 (Unai standards), or title challenge (Wenger standards)?
 

GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
Think we can all agree on this. Although there are still some on AM who don’t think Arsène was hounded out, and he would have fallen out of the top 4 even there hadn’t been a fan campaign.

But where we might all disagree, is where this ‘better place’ should be for Arteta to stay on? 5th/6th acceptable for another season (showing progress)? Has it got to be top 4 (Unai standards), or title challenge (Wenger standards)?
I think if you look at our history, the 30s and the Wenger years stand out. Apart from those periods, we've won the title here and there.

I've adjusted my expectations. Unless we get taken over by an owner that pours money into the club, it is likely that top four is the pinnacle of what we can hope for.

We are better than mid-table though, it is up to Arteta to prove it.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
To me there's a difference between pace and acceleration.

I think Auba and Pepe are probably more acceleration based than top speed just based off what I see with my eyes. I doubt either would be top 10 in the league over 100 metres, though they're no slow coaches.

Henry had the crazy top speed but for me it was the acceleration over 5 yards that really set him apart. I'm not sure I've seen a player burst past an opponent from a standing start so quickly since. He was ridiculous.

As you say people overestimate Auba's reliance on pace anyway. It's the movement that really sets him apart, you don't lose that.

But he DoEsNt HaVE aNY sKILls
 

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