Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel

Do you think that Arsenal should continue with Arteta for the next season?

  • Yes

  • No


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Taneruit

Well-Known Member
It seems that Arteta knew more than he let on a few days ago when he was asked about the issue. He said at the time he didn’t know much about it. Yet today he says he was told about it before the leak. He knew some of the things about the plans. I can’t speak to how much he knew but he did give the impression when he was asked earlier in the week that all of the discussion around the Super League was news to him.

He’s definitely not someone to be trusted.

Eh, no?

He said he knew shortly before it was announced and he didn't get it at first and couldn't process it because it blew up immediatly. That was sunday.
And in his interview was sunday where he said that he still needs to gather information.

He's saying the same thing he said then. I mean exactly the same thing. There's no contradiction here.
 
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Iceman10

Well-Known Member
You've got to firmly tread the line when you're a manager talking about your employers in public to journalists. He couldn't have really gone any further than he did.

It's makes me laugh when fans say he's a yes man, and in the next breath say how stubborn he is :lol:

Had a gander on Reddit on the thread about this and 95% of opposition fans are applauding him for what he said about the situation. In fact the top voted comment is saying how 'Bold' he was.

This doesn't logically connect for me. The stubbornness is about footballing decisions. The Kroenkes barely understand football, and are aloof, quite the opposite from hands-on Abramovich (who is not good either). Instinctively it is very likely Arteta would not have this job at Arsenal currently with different owners.
 

Rimaal

Questionable Taste
It seems that Arteta knew more than he let on a few days ago when he was asked about the issue. He said at the time he didn’t know much about it. Yet today he says he was told about it before the leak. He knew some of the things about the plans. I can’t speak to how much he knew but he did give the impression when he was asked earlier in the week that all of the discussion around the Super League was news to him.

He’s definitely not someone to be trusted.

Why is he calling it a leak? It was an announcement sent to the papers. The word leak indicates, to me, he knew before hand.
 
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Blood on the Tracks

Well-Known Member
This doesn't logically connect for me. The stubbornness is about footballing decisions. The Kroenkes barely understand football, and are aloof, quite the opposite from hands-on Abramovich (who is not good either). Instinctively it is very likely Arteta would not have this job at Arsenal currently with different owners.

Most people who are stubborn aren't just stubborn in one facet of their lives though.

The yes man stuff makes zero sense to me. He was very outspoken in the media last summer over the need for the club to invest. Yes men don't say that sort of stuff.

I don't think many would call Wenger a yes man but he never spoke out in the media in the way Arteta did, putting public pressure on for investment.

He's been doing it this season too. Saying he needs 5-6 players for the squad to be where he wants.
If he's outspoken and upfront the fans give him crap and if his press conference doesn't coincide with all this Super League nonsense he gets chided for not speaking out, when Klopp, Pep etc only broached the subject when they were asked about it in their press conferences.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Most people who are stubborn aren't just stubborn in one facet of their lives though.

The yes man stuff makes zero sense to me. He was very outspoken in the media last summer over the need for the club to invest. Yes men don't say that sort of stuff.

I don't think many would call Wenger a yes man but he never spoke out in the media in the way Arteta did, putting public pressure on for investment.

He's been doing it this season too. Saying he needs 5-6 players for the squad to be where he wants.
If he's outspoken and upfront the fans give him crap and if his press conference doesn't coincide with all this Super League nonsense he gets chided for not speaking out, when Klopp, Pep etc only broached the subject when they were asked about it in their press conferences.
I had it very different about last summer and that's where it started for me regarding concerns about him not pushing the owners to do more. He had a huge amount of capital in terms of goodwill from fans on the back of the FA Cup win but he didn't use that to push the owners publicly. Instead he said the owners were giving him all he needed transfer wise.

We didn't sell some players we should have, probably because the club was looking for better deals. I don't want to pin that on anyone specific, but it does look like an error with the bloated squad that caused management and dressing room challenges. We didn't buy Aouar and instead went with Willian. Partey was bought on the last day of the transfer window when his release clause could have been activated earlier for a proper pre-season.

Just quibbling with you regarding last summer. These are things I stored away among pros/cons for Arteta, and at the time I pur it down to inexperience. As you know I have mainly been a buffer for being relatively open minded on Arteta, until certain things that I found hard to excuse or rationalise for the recent PL matches against Wesf Ham and Liverpool.
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
I had it very different about last summer and that's where it started for me regarding concerns about him not pushing the owners to do more. He had a huge amount of capital in terms of goodwill from fans on the back of the FA Cup win but he didn't use that to push the owners publicly. Instead he said the owners were giving him all he needed transfer wise.

We didn't sell some players we should have, probably because the club was looking for better deals. I don't want to pin that on anyone specific, but it does look like an error with the bloated squad that caused management and dressing room challenges. We didn't buy Aouar and instead went with Willian. Partey was bought on the last day of the transfer window when his release clause could have been activated earlier for a proper pre-season.

Just quibbling with you regarding last summer. These are things I stored away among pros/cons for Arteta, and at the time I pur it down to inexperience. As you know I have mainly been a buffer for being relatively open minded on Arteta, until certain things that I found hard to excuse or rationalise for the recent PL matches against Wesf Ham and Liverpool.
Mate we signed Thomas for a £45m one time payment (in line with what would be paid up front on the most expensive of £100-200m transfer fees), Gabriel for £30m, and Willian on a good wage (still curious what that actually is-- would love for someone to show me a link with the actual figures, I remember it was reported by good sources to be something like 100k/w) without any significant sales minus Emi, on an already bloated wage bill, in the middle of a pandemic, without CL, going into our 4th consecutive season in Europa.

To expect anything more financially would be pretty utopic. I am quite impressed with the money given to Arteta and the backing he received.

Now, the execution is another matter. I would've spent that money quite differently, and would've been far more aggressive with sales (AMN, Holding, the main ones who were getting some interest and could've returned decent capital). As I said all summer, as fantastic a footballer as Thomas is, a more realistic and viable approach would've probably been to go for someone like Danilo along with Buendía or Aouar. Then again if were more aggressive with sales we might've been able to afford both Thomas and Aouar (or Buendía, a cheaper and not necessarily much worse option, whose lack of interest in still baffles me).

Either way, it's the use of resources where our summer came apart, as I said over and over again we simply COULD NOT go into the season without acquiring a link in the 10 space, and we didn't (something Arteta publicly recognised we were lacking last summer at the end of the season, and which gave me hope that he very much understood the issues of the team..not that he didn't, I think his planning with Edu was just poor--between perhaps failing to recognise proper targets like Buendía or James, not being aggressive enough with sales--keeping AMN was a really poor decision with Wolves' interest--and perhaps thinking he could get by with Willian and Saka and a more tactical, counter-attacking approach until ESR was fit or we acquired the guy they had earmarked in Aouar). Perhaps we thought Willian was that, but that was miscalculation, then. And we had no shortage of resources to achieve that, whether it was by being more aggressive with sales, going for one of the cheaper options at 10 (James, Brahim), or prioritising the bigger position of need and going for a cheaper option at CM (Danilo), or some combination of these strategies.

Here, of course, Edu has to receive some flak too.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Mate we signed Thomas for a £45m one time payment (in line with what would be paid up front on the most expensive of £100-200m transfer fees), Gabriel for £30m, and Willian on a good wage (still curious what that actually is-- would love for someone to show me a link with the actual figures, I remember it was reported by good sources to be something like 100k/w) without any significant sales minus Emi, on an already bloated wage bill, in the middle of a pandemic, without CL, going into our 4th consecutive season in Europa.

To expect anything more financially would be pretty utopic. I am quite impressed with the money given to Arteta and the backing he received.

Now, the execution is another matter. I would've spent that money quite differently, and would've been far more aggressive with sales (AMN, Holding, the main ones who were getting some interest and could've returned decent capital). As I said all summer, as fantastic a footballer as Thomas is, a more realistic and viable approach would've probably been to go for someone like Danilo along with Buendía or Aouar. Then again if were more aggressive with sales we might've been able to afford both Thomas and Aouar (or Buendía, a cheaper and not necessarily much worse option, whose lack of interest in still baffles me).

Either way, it's the use of resources where our summer came apart, as I said over and over again we simply COULD NOT go into the season without acquiring a link in the 10 space, and we didn't (something Arteta publicly recognised we were lacking last summer at the end of the season, and which gave me hope that he very much understood the issues of the team..not that he didn't, I think his planning with Edu was just poor--between perhaps failing to recognise proper targets like Buendía or James, not being aggressive enough with sales--keeping AMN was a really poor decision with Wolves' interest--and perhaps thinking he could get by with Willian and Saka and a more tactical, counter-attacking approach until ESR was fit or we acquired the guy they had earmarked in Aouar). Perhaps we thought Willian was that, but that was miscalculation, then. And we had no shortage of resources to achieve that, whether it was by being more aggressive with sales, going for one of the cheaper options at 10 (James, Brahim), or prioritising the bigger position of need and going for a cheaper option at CM (Danilo), or some combination of these strategies.

Here, of course, Edu has to receive some flak too.

This is why we are held back at Arsenal.

70m or whatever standard net spend was always likely to see us in jeopardy for even Top 6, not even Top 4, with a lot to fix with the squad, based on competition with Leicester, Everton, Villa, among others.

Remember your comment if the Kroenke's follow through with "investment" this summer to appease fans. They could have done that last summer, with a proactive loan arrangement like Liverpool. They didn't do that because they were not pressed by Arteta, and apparently some conflicted fans who happily take whatever the Kroenke's support without ambitiously pushing for more. This is why practically every summer we have people in A-M saying the transfer window has been 8/10 when it hasn't been.
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted
Also people on here happy to accept Pep, Klopp etc didn't know anything about the situation.

Arteta must have known though, because he's such a bad guy and manager. Proper agenda merchanting.
Fwiw, I believed him when he said he didn’t know. I’m sure he heard something but not enough to say uninformed opinions to the media.

Media savviness is one of Arteta’s strengths and it’s been on display once again.

All I can say is atleast the anger is pointed towards the correct place - Kroenke.
 

Blood on the Tracks

Well-Known Member
Fwiw, I believed him when he said he didn’t know. I’m sure he heard something but not enough to say uninformed opinions to the media.

Media savviness is one of Arteta’s strengths and it’s been on display once again.

All I can say is atleast the anger is pointed towards the correct place - Kroenke.

I believe all the managers involved in England to be honest.

As you say, I'm sure they probably all heard bits and bobs through the grapevine but I severely doubt any of them had the full picture of what was going on.

Kind of puts into perspective how far the managers and general football people are divorced from the owners etc at times too.

Can't be a comfortable thing for Klopp, Guardiola etc to have to field questions on the issue when they have to walk a pretty fine political tightrope while also attempting to get across their own personal opinions in a fairly vague manner.
 

Riou

A-M's Resident Jobber
We will never know if the managers really knew what was happening...where they in the dark or are they just good actors, did they know about it but still hate it...we will never know.

Arteta isn't gonna crap on the owners completely...if the Super League did happen, with Arsenal in it, it would have made us 1 of only 12 proper teams in Europe...so from our own point of view, the intentions were "good", so I can see why Mikel said that...but it would have just ruined everyone else in football :lol:

We have 2 massive games coming up in the Europa soon, lets forget the ESL and focus on that.
 

CaseUteinberger

Cazorla (not Cazorla ffs)
Have the club generate revenue without him lifting a finger? and not having to worry about his investment getting relegated due to team performance? a team he doesn't want to invest in?

Yeah that's exactly what I think KSE wanted out of this - what else did you think he was hoping to get out of this?
You think he wants to see Arsenal plummet because of a rookie manager he got on the cheap?
You think he doesn't want to use the money generated from Arsenal on his other ventures?

I never said he cares about the club, he 1000% cares about his investment and the bottom line however, which is what the ESL was all about.
That Kroenke and his family is in it solely for the money aught to be clear to everyone. The business happens to be sports (Rams, Arsenal, Avalanche etc.) but could have been sausage making. Kroenke has even said so himself, that he is not in it to win trophies. He wants to make money. If that can be achieved while winning trophies then fine, but it really isn't the goal. So if that family can find a way to ensure a reliable income stream, e.g. through an ESL, they will take it regardless what anyone thinks or feels. They do not care!

That Arteta, the players and us fans care if we win or lose is 100% clear also. Our motivations might differ, but for one reason or another we want wins and trophies. The Kroenkes could care less as long as a profit is generated. If that comes through league position, guaranteed ESL money or number of sausages sold at the Emirates really doesn't matter. Struggle to understand why that isn't 100% clear to everyone.
 

TimoJens

Well-Known Member
If he doesnt win Europa League he should leave after this season. I really like Arteta and dont doubt that he really want to bring trophies to the club but this season has been so bad. Kroenke said that he and his voiceless father want to make Arsenal great again and if thats true you cant keep Arteta if we fail in Europa League. It isnt true though so if Arteta want to stay he will stay no matter what.
 

CaseUteinberger

Cazorla (not Cazorla ffs)
Also people on here happy to accept Pep, Klopp etc didn't know anything about the situation.

Arteta must have known though, because he's such a bad guy and manager. Proper agenda merchanting.
I can 100% understand if some posters think Arteta is the wrong manager for Arsenal, but some have totally gone of the deep end in their hatred. Like Arteta is both some football anti-Christ mastermind weaving his evil plans and at the same time some idiotic, incompetent yes man. I have written it before, but some have really lost it, if they ever had it in the first place.
 

CaseUteinberger

Cazorla (not Cazorla ffs)
It's not some imaginary situation (AM have gone so deep into their Arteta-out hole they have long ago lost most sense of perspective), it is reality.

It's almost end of April and we're 9th on the table (only on merit of more games played).
That's midtable level.

Therefore if he fails to win Europa, he should be sacked.
:rolleyes: ... think you misunderstood my point. I have no issues with posters and fans wanting Arteta out. If you think a 9th league position at this time of year with the squad we have unacceptable, then please go ahead and have that view and say you want Arteta out. The deep hole I was referring to is the undiluted Arteta hatred where anything he does and says is interpreted in the most negative light possible. Kind of a reverse Özil syndrome (probably roughly the same lot of posters subject to that too) where anything Özil did or said was greeted as epically well thought through and good.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
I can 100% understand if some posters think Arteta is the wrong manager for Arsenal, but some have totally gone of the deep end in their hatred. Like Arteta is both some football anti-Christ mastermind weaving his evil plans and at the same time some idiotic, incompetent yes man. I have written it before, but some have really lost it, if they ever had it in the first place.
Well in my case, just if there was any confusion, I’m not saying he is an evil mastermind. I am saying though that he likely wouldn’t *currently* be manger of Arsenal with different owners so if anyone thinks he is with KroenkeOut that would be taking it too far, and it is natural in overall PR disasters like this one not to fight fans and the anger, but instead soothe it, the idea being to let it dissipate. That’s why in my comment I said I am sceptical of any real daylight between Arteta and the Kroenke’s.,
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Will also reiterate this, because it was said above that Arteta pushed the Kroenke’s for more investment *last summer*. I did not see Arteta pushing the Kroenke’s for help to be more aggressive in the transfer market (selling “deadwood” and buys), only the contrary, but if anyone has quotes to say he did please provide them.

- Last summer, Arteta said he was getting all the help he needed for transfers instead of publicly expressing that he would like more, to push the owners on the back of his (Arteta’s) credit and goodwill with fans on the back of the FA Cup win.

- Some people here have been saying that Arteta says he still needs 5-6 players (I haven’t seen direct quotes of Arteta, but that is their impression). Is that compatible with understanding the challenge *last summer* so as to make clear to the Kroenke’s the extent of work to be done to push them to do the equivalent of the loan arrangement for Liverpool? No it isn’t, but as I said above I did largely put this all down to inexperience last summer.

I don’t understand excuses like “But Partey” stuff. We cut corners with Willian and it will cost us more in the long run, just as with any appeasement “investment” by the Kroenke’s this coming summer to try to soothe the pitchforks instead of doing the job properly last summer.
 
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Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Ok, just did some digging of my own for last summer.

June 2020:

"Mikel Arteta admits he has “big concerns” about whether he will receive transfer funds to improve his team to compete with the best teams next season"


Oct 2020:

"I am very happy because the way we are acting and the way we are approaching and doing the processes around the market, around the squad and the communication link that we have at the moment between myself, Edu, the board and the ownership is really good and I'm really satisfied. And I know that we are all trying our best to improve the team and try to take the direction to achieve the goals that we want."


... I did not know about what he said in June of last year, but I was aware, and have been going on, the quote from October.
 

Rasmi

Well-Known Member
Most people who are stubborn aren't just stubborn in one facet of their lives though.

The yes man stuff makes zero sense to me. He was very outspoken in the media last summer over the need for the club to invest. Yes men don't say that sort of stuff.

I don't think many would call Wenger a yes man but he never spoke out in the media in the way Arteta did, putting public pressure on for investment.

He's been doing it this season too. Saying he needs 5-6 players for the squad to be where he wants.
If he's outspoken and upfront the fans give him crap and if his press conference doesn't coincide with all this Super League nonsense he gets chided for not speaking out, when Klopp, Pep etc only broached the subject when they were asked about it in their press conferences.
I don’t know much about much. But I know Arteta is a liar. This I know for sure. Every time his lips are moving he is lying
 

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