Mikel Arteta: Mid-table Mikel

Do you think that Arsenal should continue with Arteta for the next season?

  • Yes

  • No


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MikelHadADream

Well-Known Member
ElP0dJjWkAI7KTr


This passmap confirms it, no midfield play at all, clearly by design.. Only reason I can think of is Arteta might be worried about losing possession in that area so just forces play wide, but that’s just cowardly..

God that isn't a pretty sight. Look at Auba's position ffs.
 

Kysus

Well-Known Member
I still trust Arteta. The problem is not really the tactics per se. The personnel is a huge issue. We don't have creative outlet and now we're forced to use wide areas to create.

Xhaka, Partey and Ceballos Midfield is very solid but uninspiring. It offers plenty of control and stability but not so much creativity.

We need to play two of the above with one of saka, Willian or ESR.

I think Arteta will get it right eventually.
He just needs to add a creative player to our Midfield.

The problem is not with the personnel, it's the system.

Instead of leaving attackers up high in the defensive phase(Auba/Pepe) to be able to break quickly we almost always have 11 behind the ball.

So we are really hard to break down but slow and uninspiring in attack and almost always face an organized defensive unit ourselves.
Every single game a grind.

With the amazing transition players we have this is such a waste.
 
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HairSprayGooners

Top 10 is the new Top 4
Who? Xhaka and Guendouzi were used a lot by Emery, with Ramsey or Özil being the other player (usually Ramsey). Ramsey is the only one in that setup who provides something different.

Mikky and Iwobi had far better chance creation than any of the players in our squad currently have and Ramsey was a goalscoring midfielder. In his last season (18/19 season) he played 1300 minutes in the league but Ramsey scored 4 and assisted 6. In the season before that he played 1800 minutes scoring 7 and assisting 8.

Mikky played 1600 minutes in his last season which was also the 18/19 season. He scored 6 and assisted 4. Iwobi scored 3 and assisted 6 in 18/19 as well.

Suddenly the 3 above players all leave in one season and we don't replace them. All 3 contributed to 29 league goals either through assisting or directly scoring in the 18/19 season.

I agree that all 3 had to go, the general quality wasn't good enough. But you have to replace the output, not only in chances created but in goals scored from midfield.

This is the main reason why our chance creation is dwindling. Pepe is a goalscoring winger, he isn't a creator as such but does have creative qualities. To unlock players like Pepe we need creative midfielders.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
The problem is not with the personnel, it's the system.

Instead of leaving attackers up high in the defensive phase(Auba/Pepe) to be able to break quickly we almost always have 11 behind the ball.

So we are really hard to break down but slow and uninspiring in attack and almost always face an organized defensive unit ourselves.
Every single game a grind.

With the amazing transition players we have this is such a waste.
The actual problem is that we always rush our attacks.
Why can’t we just slow down and be patient.

Read this and you will understand.
I don’t get why we are rushing crosses into the box.

Surely we can pass it around the box, and work our way in patiently. Just use a bit of movement/dribbling skills and pass the ball around until we find a gap in the opponent defence.


00:40-00:48
Why is tierney crossing the ball?
Should have just make a short cut back to auba.

00:52-1:00
Auba should have use a bit of skills to dribble past his marker, and then making a low cross or short pass.

————————————————————————
We should pass around until we finds a gap.
Our players would have crossed the ball at 00:20. But they shouldn’t.
 

Maybe

Well-Known Member
ElP0dJjWkAI7KTr


This passmap confirms it, no midfield play at all, clearly by design.. Only reason I can think of is Arteta might be worried about losing possession in that area so just forces play wide, but that’s just cowardly..
Would be great if you would have FB's like Marcelo and Dani Alves, but I would've hoped that the manager can understand that the only way our FB's can attack is by running from the deep, and not by staying in forwarding positions like they did yesterday. Bellerin had absolutely no idea what do to, it was hilarious to watch him and you can't blame him for anything. Ceballos was behind him and he also didn't know what to do, because he needs runs from FB's and not seeing them static in the attack so the guy didn't know who to pass to.
After that, the "solution" was to give Pepe a chance to put some crosses in from the left! :D Like, when was that strength of Pepe?
A complete failure
 
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HairSprayGooners

Top 10 is the new Top 4
I guess people don't understand why Arteta told us to play that way?

He just watched Leicester batter Man City, who have a plethora of creative players but struggled to really break Leicester down through central areas. Their best moments came out wide.

What does Arteta do? He told Xhaka to offer cover as the LCB which allowed Tierney to bomb forward. Similar system was implemented allowing Bellerin to bomb forward.

Times in the game where this worked very well -

  • Tierney's ball in to Auba for the header, probably should've done better.
  • Luiz crossfield ball to Tierney who should've done better considering the position he was in.
  • Bellerin opportunity on the volley from Auba's cross from the left
People need to realise we don't have any creative midfielders. There's almost 0 chance we are going to be creating anything in midfield this season, that isn't the managers fault. The manager is trying to fix that through very complexed tactics.

Arteta's downfall was pushing hard for the goal but then allowing Xhaka to be against Under/Vardy down the other end.
 

Kysus

Well-Known Member
ElP0dJjWkAI7KTr


This passmap confirms it, no midfield play at all, clearly by design.. Only reason I can think of is Arteta might be worried about losing possession in that area so just forces play wide, but that’s just cowardly..

The idea is to create overloads which is not really possible in the centre.
Having a completely isolated Laca in the centre does not work though.

We always rush our attacks.
Just slow down and be patient.

If you constantly have to track down into your own box you are not going to be effective having to run the entire pitch every single time just to get into an attacking position.

It's a philosophie thing.
Positive/Attacking:
If you leave attackers high your opposition can't commit as many bodies forward without leaving themselves vulnerable.

Defensive/Pragmatic:
Defend with 11 behind the ball.
This approach we should only use in the closing stages to protect a lead or against much superior opposition.
We do it all the time.
 
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Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
The idea is to create overloads which is not really possible in the centre.
Having a completely isolated Laca in the centre does not work though.



If you constantly have to track down into your own box you are not going to be effective having to run the entire pitch every single time just to get into an attacking position.

It's a philosophie thing.
Positive/Attacking:
If you leave attackers high your opposition can't commit as many bodies forward without leaving themselves vulnerable.

Defensive/Pragmatic:
Defend with 11 behind the ball.
This approach we should only use in the closing stages to protect a lead or against much superior opposition.
We do it all the time.
Have you watch the clip I posted as example?
That’s how we should play.
 

Kysus

Well-Known Member
People need to realise we don't have any creative midfielders. There's almost 0 chance we are going to be creating anything in midfield this season, that isn't the managers fault. The manager is trying to fix that through very complexed tactics.
So you are saying Atalanta has superior individual quality to us?
Come on man. It's tactics.
 

field442

Hates Journalists Named James
Trusted
Mikky and Iwobi had far better chance creation than any of the players in our squad currently have and Ramsey was a goalscoring midfielder. In his last season (18/19 season) he played 1300 minutes in the league but Ramsey scored 4 and assisted 6. In the season before that he played 1800 minutes scoring 7 and assisting 8.

Mikky played 1600 minutes in his last season which was also the 18/19 season. He scored 6 and assisted 4. Iwobi scored 3 and assisted 6 in 18/19 as well.

Suddenly the 3 above players all leave in one season and we don't replace them. All 3 contributed to 29 league goals either through assisting or directly scoring in the 18/19 season.

I agree that all 3 had to go, the general quality wasn't good enough. But you have to replace the output, not only in chances created but in goals scored from midfield.

This is the main reason why our chance creation is dwindling. Pepe is a goalscoring winger, he isn't a creator as such but does have creative qualities. To unlock players like Pepe we need creative midfielders.

Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey all played behind the striker. We could put Saka Willian and Pepe behind the striker and should get the same results. In Iwobi’s last season he created just under 40 chances in the league, Pepe created 40 chances last season. Willian created 76 chances last season, Saka had around 30 chances created. In the league Pepe, Saka and Willian combined for 33 goals/assists last season.

Trying to play the card of not having enough creativity simply doesn’t hold weight. The players aren’t the problem, it’s how they’re being used.
 

Rex Banter

Got Swerved By Gallas
Trusted
I guess people don't understand why Arteta told us to play that way?

He just watched Leicester batter Man City, who have a plethora of creative players but struggled to really break Leicester down through central areas. Their best moments came out wide.

That Leicester - Man City game was over a month ago.

Since then they’ve lost back to back league games to West Ham and Villa conceding four goals and scoring none. They weren’t some white hot juggernaut who were going to blow us away.
 
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L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
I'm watching the game and have noticed 3 things.

-We're hellbent on using the CBs, GK and our no.6 as our main source of game building as well as opening up the opposition defense. So what exactly is the point of forcing Xhaka into the team with Partey already here?

-We're using the other midfielders to take up wide spots when on the ball to push our wide players(wingers and fullbacks) as further up the pitch as we can but this has our strikers completely isolated. Having Xhaka who can barely move, pass or do anything quick enough pretty much screws up the structure by merely being there and he isn't able to actually function since he hasn't got a role yet is just forcing the entire system to be blunt. You don't really need multiple players doing the same thing and what's the point of having Luiz, Gabriel, Ceballos and now Partey who are devaluing Xhaka's role in the game by default where another midfielder would be better able to connect the attack to the forward players more effectively?

-I think Arteta is overdoing the pass, move, positioning and press stuff compromising a simpler route that's hurting all of our players specially our forwards as well as our attacking game overall. And not just from a gameplay perspective but having no settled front line and constantly moving around positions of Laca, Auba and the likes from one game to the next is creating more and more confusion as well as compromising team chemistry as well as confidence among the players. You can tell from their body language, decisions on the ball and lack of certainty that its a bit much.

-We can't do Barcelona or Bayern or City. We can't. Its impossible. So trying to force the issue and compromising results isn't a good idea. You need to get to a certain state result wise with the players we've got before taking extreme measures first. There is nothing wrong with patience and gradual organic progression. Why not build from a foundation? We now have the set of players and enough to not overdo everything for a more direct simple way to get up the table. We should be and need to be more practical.
 

HairSprayGooners

Top 10 is the new Top 4
So you are saying Atalanta has superior individual quality to us?
Come on man. It's tactics.

Honestly an awful comparison.

Atalanta play a 343. Their wing backs are big, strong, athletic but also have incredible quality. Just look at Castagna for example who Leicester managed to nab from Atalanta. Last season from the left Gosens scored 9 goals and assisted 8 in the league.

They then have Alejandro Gomez and Ilicic as the two inside forwards behind Zapata, their holdup striker. Atalanta have all the bones for how they play. Strong wing backs who score and assist regularly, a striker who holds up the ball incredibly well and is a threat in the air and two playmaking attackers who compliment everything that goes on around them.

We actually don't have anyone like Gomez or Ilicic in our squad.

@field442 valid points but I'm talking big chance creation. Mikky and Iwobi created 10 big chances each in their final seasons. Pepe comment is fair but even he doesn't put those numbers up, he's a goalscoring winger.
 

HairSprayGooners

Top 10 is the new Top 4
That Leicester - Man City game was over a month ago.

Since then they’ve lost back to back league games to West Ham and Villa conceding four goals and scoring none. They weren’t some white hot juggernaut who were going to blow us away.

No but Leicester clearly set up differently in big away games, hitting teams on the counter. Which is all they did against us, they aren't a "white hot juggernaut" but they also aren't coming to the Emirates to be easily beaten.

No matter what formation we played we would've been met by a blue wall, and we have no central quality to unlock that, so going wide was the best option.
 

HairSprayGooners

Top 10 is the new Top 4
There is no comparision. Atalanta score for fun with much less talented players.
Why? Tactics.

I just said to you Gomez and Ilicic are far more talented as playmakers and goalscoring midfielders than anything that we have in our squad, yet you decided to side step that like an awkward crab.
 

Kysus

Well-Known Member
Didn't think the notion that Gomez or Illicic would turn is into an attacking force like Atalanta deserved a response.
Willian would score and create for fun at Atalanta for example.
 

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