Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Legend14]

If Leeds finish above Arsenal that would be utterly embarrassing

The season is not embarrassing already? I don’t think we will be rescued even if we finish above Leeds. It’s been a PL season we’ll want to forget.

But I am still positive we are moving forward.

 

[Iceman10]

No, I care less about the manager than I do about the player performances. The problems I see that will make the biggest difference if resolved are player related and not manager related. My opinion. Doesn’t make it a conspiracy.

I don’t want to ignore your comments, so I’ll attempt to summarize but feel free to correct me. You believe that a different manager could have made the player performances, like in the last match, much better than the current manager, who decided from his limited choices (affected by his poor personnel decisions and injuries) to put Elneny on the pitch. Or, had the manager made better personnel decisions this season, we’d have more impactful choices instead of Elneny that would have made a real difference.

I felt as if the choices were fine except playing Pepe on the right and Saka on the left. And, all in all, the managerial choices mattered less because we were outgunned by an army superior, technically competent players. All
of which are better than any players the manager shunned.

City a poor example? Ok, how about Benefica? Would quality performances have made a larger difference in the 1-1 performance or a different manager? If a manager, how? I am curious.

I think my argument is affected by culture. I may be completely biased by being American, so apologies for the disconnect. We do not value managers nearly as much in our sports. We hold the players accountable for air balls, dropped passes, fumbles, strikeouts, etc. And, the players hold themselves accountable. If only I could have blamed the manager for my legitimate shortcomings, I’d still be playing.

I’m in America as an ex-pat. Maybe you are thinking more about basketball. For NFL there are conversations about managers every day. A hot topic right now is personnel for o-lines for Mahomes and Russell Wilson, linked in with head coach support for those key quarterbacks. There are constant discussions about Belichick letting Brady go and Arians supporting Brady with moves for Antonio Brown, etc. There are constant discussions about Green Bay and taking the ball out of the hands of Aaron Rodgers against Tampa Bay also. It’s not just head coaches. Look at all the plaudits going to Todd Bowles as a coach for the defensive unit for Tampa Bay.

When you have three matches in a week I don’t want to see the First XI stay the same, particularly at the start of a critical jam-packed run of fixtures. Between those two matches, against Leeds and first leg against Benfica, there should have been more involvement of Pepe, Martinelli, and Laca, and frankly in the week before those two matches also. There should have also been more dynamic use of the five substitutions available to keep legs fresh. If all of that was done I would even be ok with 1-1 after the first leg. Without doing that though in the big picture you are going to have tired legs and/or weaker starting XI’s for the PL matches in the tight schedule, particularly the Leicester match. You see, already now we are pretty close to a situation of winning EL or bust because chances of Top 6 have been diminished so much. This wouldn’t be the case if Arteta smart rotated Pepe, Martinelli, Laca, and AMN (now on loan) to have players who play confidently when they are called on, not rusty, when they are used within an overall core squad of 15-17 players.

 

[Atlas]

Rogers made Vardy? Nonsense. And I rate Rogers. Somehow he must have made Vardy faster and more intense.

Who made Saka, since we are not going to give the players any credit for their talent and passion?

Don’t care if Arteta is a fraud. Players must play to their capabilities even if granny is managing.

It’s not uncommon for a manager to come in and reinvigorate the players. Look at what Wenger did with the George Graham back 5. That was a class group of defenders who all had great careers but Wenger gave them a new lease on life and extended their careers with his coaching methods. No surprise players respond positively to world class coaches.

 

[TornadoTed]

My main problem with Arteta is that he doesnt learn from his mistakes. It could simply be the case that he is a number 2 and will never be a number 1.

His personality even before he became the manager was spoken of in a way that he had conflicts and butted heads with a lot of players. Why is it overlooked that he has fallen out with and simply discarded players on a regular basis since becoming manager.

Guendouzi
Torreira
Özil
Sokratis
AMN
Saliba
Pepe
Torreira
Nelson

9 players who either were marginalised, used and discarded or fallen out with.

I don't doubt his ability to coach, he may very well be a good coach, he shows some positive aspects sometimes. However, he doesnt seem like he is ready for a job as big as Arsenal, to be the manager as it were.

There is more to managing than picking the best team for the next game. You have to look 5 games ahead. You need to know your players. You need to know who needs rest, what players are confidence players, which players need a while to get going, who hits the ground running. It seems to be all about Arteta and he seems a but of an ego maniac.

If he cant control himself in a press conference and literally says things like ' he let the team down', then what kind of messaging does he transmit to the players?

Will he ever make a sub to actually effect the game? Will it always be like for like. Why is there never any change in game? Saka and Pepe didn't switch once vs Man City.

The favouritism bothers me, we all can see it, but what about the welfare of the players.

He has spoken about needing fresh legs for Thursday? He has physically run Saka into the ground. Laca is now rusty, we all know the players who need rhythm. Pepe and Laca need a run of games to get firing. Tierney also. We may not have a good enough squad to be top 4. However, we would have had a squad that could challenge for 5th to 6th if he didn't fall out will all of them, and we definitely have a squad that is good enough to rotate.

There have been a few alarm bells for sure but I am willing to at least wait and see before judging him on his man management.

We had a squad of 34 players at the start of the season which is almost unmanageable. Only 14 players can take part on a matchday so that is 20 that are being left out. I think it was inevitable that there would be at least half a dozen unhappy players and maybe more who were demoralised and demotivated as they knew they weren't going to get many opportunities for what ever reason.

Lets see how he manages a more sensible sized squad of say 22 players + youngsters.

 

[Makingtrax]

Poch took a club spending 6th and made them top 4, the club sacked him the first time he dropped down, not understanding over performance.

Arsène took a club spending 5th and made them top 4 for 20 years, the fans forced him out after he made 2nd, because they were bored, not understanding over performance.

Look at both clubs now, desperate to get back to somewhere near what they had. It could take them years of losing money, supporters and credibility. I'm amazed how few people understand this game, its fickle nature and odds of winning the league. Top 4 is where the money is.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I think when it comes down to the blame game it's on both the players and manager, but when you're the manager the buck has to stop with you at the end of the day.

Individual errors and crazy decision making from players have cost us quite a lot of points this season so I do have some sympathy with Arteta on that front.

Still, when a club like Arsenal are sat in the bottom half of the table with 2/3rd's of the season gone the managers going to come under pressure from the fanbase, I think that's normal.

I don't see how anyone can make a cogent argument that we're not underperforming this season.

 

[goldengod]

I think when it comes down to the blame game it's on both the players and manager, but when you're the manager the buck has to stop with you at the end of the day.

Individual errors and crazy decision making from players have cost us quite a lot of points this season so I do have some sympathy with Arteta on that front.

Still, when a club like Arsenal are sat in the bottom half of the table with 2/3rd's of the season gone the managers going to come under pressure from the fanbase, I think that's normal.

I don't see how anyone can make a cogent argument that we're not underperforming this season.

I can understand those who have sympathy on Arteta for bad decisions/silly mistakes by players costing us points. If we just even took the Wolves/Burnley games and assume we won those, our standing would look a lot better.

That withstanding, players will make mistakes from time to time and we cannot expect individual errors to go to zero. Even players like Van Dijk make mistakes (such as the one against us last year). The difference is that really good teams can account for these mistakes and not let it cost them that much by scoring lots of goals. The problem with Mikel's management is that he sets up the team too conservatively, which means that our best chance of winning the game is keeping a clean sheet. This inevitably makes it difficult to win games when we are likely to score around 1, and if you're lucky 2, goals as a game. It reminds me similar to Mourinho's Sp**s - will get some good performances from time to time, but inevitably will not be good enough for sustaining it over the course of a season.

So in many respects while I can have sympathy for Arteta regarding some of the things that have happened, at the same time, I think his management amplifies those mistakes. A team that was given more freedom to create/attack fluidly and scored more goals might have still had those Xhaka/Pepe/Luiz reds, and those other costly mistakes like Holding did vs. City/Villa. But a different team would have limited how much those mistakes cost us.

 

[El Duderino]

I think when it comes down to the blame game it's on both the players and manager, but when you're the manager the buck has to stop with you at the end of the day.

I don't see how anyone can make a cogent argument that we're not underperforming this season.

Glad to see someone finally getting where me and a lot of posters are coming from.

 

[Gunners1616]

Poch took a club spending 6th and made them top 4, the club sacked him the first time he dropped down, not understanding over performance.

Arsène took a club spending 5th and made them top 4 for 20 years, the fans forced him out after he made 2nd, because they were bored, not understanding over perfirmance.

Look at both clubs now, desperate to get back to somewhere near what they had. It could take them years of losing money, supporters and credibility. I'm amazed how few people understand this game, its fickle nature and odds of winning the league. Top 4 is where the money is.

Short post' but more insightful than the last few pages...

We need to accept that it's ok to change manager until we find the right one. If we finish mid-table with a dozen defeats in the League and no Europa League trophy then he has to go...

He made way too many bad decisions to deserve the benefit of doubt. We can't afford another season in mid-table. He can go gain his experience elsewhere.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Glad to see someone finally getting where me and a lot of posters are coming from.

Our position is simply indefensible. We are currently 11th. I hear about us fighting for 7th. Lets be realistic. With the schedule and the run we have it looks highly unlinkely we can break into the top 7. It is even more unlikely when you look at the table and see 3 teams above us with games in hand. Forget about whether we face them. It is all about who their game in hand is against. They all need to play eachother.

Villa vs Sp**s
Villa vs Everton

Whatever happens. Those teams are all moving away from us. West Ham are 11 points ahead of us. Their manager is Moyes, look at their squad ffs.

Arteta is new, Arteta doesn't have the players. Look at the players Arteta has at his disposal and look at the results he is getting.

 

[Rasmi]

If Leeds finish above Arsenal that would be utterly embarrassing

Well I can see the Arteta freaks argue the Leeds manager has had more time at his club than Arteta and let’s see who finishes ahead of who next season. Also the COVID affected Artetas team more than others apparently. I wouldn’t put anything past them

 

[Finesse]

I think when it comes down to the blame game it's on both the players and manager, but when you're the manager the buck has to stop with you at the end of the day.

Individual errors and crazy decision making from players have cost us quite a lot of points this season so I do have some sympathy with Arteta on that front.

Still, when a club like Arsenal are sat in the bottom half of the table with 2/3rd's of the season gone the managers going to come under pressure from the fanbase, I think that's normal.

I don't see how anyone can make a cogent argument that we're not underperforming this season.

Of course the buck stops with the manager. This is the 3rd in 2 seasons. We are definitely underperforming. We had to deal with creeping out of relegation form few months ago to midtable. There is no denying.

However to peddle the names of underperforming players and question why the manager is not getting the best out of them and putting most of the responsibility on the manager is wrong.

We live in a climate where managers are expendable for obvious reasons. You can sack them within days , they have contracts you can rip off , pay off etc. As opposed to players.

Mikel is here to establish the strategy , pick and groom the players to execute. He plays a major role in keeping the players motivated and focused. Theses players also have a personal responsibility to meet the Manager half way and find it within themselves to deliver.

We were in a rot before the Chelsea game and it was damning. The team selection , management antics , style of play , formation and results were not satisfactory for this club. In that climate you don't expect a player to be at their best. The manager was responsible. However post Chelsea he made changes in selection , game strategy , formations etc and we completely changed the fortunes. The results proved he made new strides. The defence was solid , we were creating chances and scoring goals. You can see what he is doing now. Why are some players not thriving in the flow and bringing the best out of themselves based on the pedestal the manager has created? KT , Luis , Xhaka , ESR , Saka , Partey etc have been consistently delivering for us and finding more out of their game. ESR has been unbelievable. Saka is growing in strengths. Listen to them after games and they credit the Manager for how they are improving. Arteta was credited for a lot of City players and their form. ( Leroy Sane was specific on that)

Yes we are expecting more from Laca , Auba , Pepe ,Willian , all SENIOR professionals on big wages and reputation. Arteta has made his mistakes and he is fixing it. However we cannot solely put the form on these guys on him only. Is anyone giving him credit for ESR and Saka or its just a given they are good and its not the manager's doing? Even at City despite their form, there are players who are not playing well too and the Manager is asking more from them. Even Klopp is scratching his head at the moment.

I accept the table is a bleak view in terms of our position, however if Laca , Auba , Pepe and Willian all senior professionals could find more in them in terms of application on the pitch in key moments and decision making , we would be in a much better place despite all our earlier troubles.

 

[Rasmi]

Every team in the league can talk about bad lucks, ifs and buts. We are 11th after 25 games in the league. This is abysmal no matter how you twist it. I can accept we are terrible right now as much as it hurts. Normalising this and trying to put positive spin on this should never be accepted. There has to be standards you have to uphold. People talking about strategies Arteta want to implement. 18 months in and no one can get explain Artetas tactics and how he want t play

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Glad to see someone finally getting where me and a lot of posters are coming from.

Even as an Arteta fan I couldn't really begrudge the decision if he gets removed at the end of the season ( Though I don't think he will be ). As a manager you get judged on results at the end of the day. It is what it is.

Also though, there are a number of players that haven't performed up to the required standard for Arsenal under both Arteta and Emery. They need to be held accountable and moved on too. We can't be giving them a free pass.

 

[El Duderino]

Even as an Arteta fan I couldn't really begrudge the decision if he gets removed at the end of the season ( Though I don't think he will be ). As a manager you get judged on results at the end of the day. It is what it is.

Also though, there are a number of players that haven't performed up to the required standard for Arsenal under both Arteta and Emery. They need to be held accountable and moved on too. We can't be giving them a free pass.

But haven't we moved a good chunck of them on? So many of the suspects have been moved on...

From the ones Arteta decided to keep, Bellerin was doing alright under Emery and later under Arteta last season. Holding has been largely solid (much due to Mikel, I might add).

You could say Laca has been largely disapointing, but I think his out links were the least feasable of the bunch.

That leaves Elneny as the odd man out.

Anyhow, my gripe is mostly on how he gets excused for a lot of the poor results we've had. Sure, Wolves was a punch in the gut and City are City, but most of our ELEVEN league losses were down to us and not some freak circumstance.

Which leads us to where we are now, hoping he succeeds because the alternative is us losing yet another half a season if he starts as flat as he did this one.

By then I think it'll already be too late for some players who we want to keep in the squad.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Seeing as I've said some critical things of Arteta recently I'd also point out that getting the Arsenal job at the time period Arteta did was not an easy job at all.

You'd think getting the Arsenal job as a novice manager would be an absolute dream appointment for Arteta. With the squad issues and that behind the scenes instability etc it was a tough, tough ask. Probably one of the tougher jobs in the league.

I strongly believe Arteta is going to become a very good manager. Is it going to be at Arsenal? My faith has been shaken a bit I must admit.

Personally I want to see him given next season. After 2.5 years in the job you can't be making excuses if he's still underperforming. He has to be in the hunt for top 4 for me next season, otherwise I'll have to turn on him.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I think Arteta gets next season no matter what happens this season, the players and the board seem fully behind him. Whether that is the right or wrong stance remains to be seen.

I think he will be in a similar position to Rodgers in 15/16, where Liverpool came off the back of a poor 14/15 but he kept his job for that summer, but it always felt he was a bad spell away of getting the sack the following season, which he ultimately did.

Long term though, the manager is largley irrelevant, it's all about recruitment.

 

[Macho]

Seeing as I've said some critical things of Arteta recently I'd also point out that getting the Arsenal job at the time period Arteta did was not an easy job at all.

It's not black and white with young Mikel is it? We disagree on certain players but at least you have a reasonable take on the situation.

I have admittedly lost the plot but when I assess things in the cold light of day, even I can admit Mikel has actually done some good in tricky circumstances. He's not this evil guy here to ruin the club he's a guy who gets the club and is trying his best.

We won't until years down the line, but it would be interesting to see what his actual to-do list is and where his priorities are. I think changing the culture of the club was probably#1 which would explain why there's persistence with him behind the scenes despite the results.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

But haven't we moved a good chunck of them on? So many of the suspects have been moved on...

From the ones Arteta decided to keep, Bellerin was doing alright under Emery and later under Arteta last season. Holding has been largely solid (much due to Mikel, I might add).

You could say Laca has been largely disapointing, but I think his out links were the least feasable of the bunch.

That leaves Elneny as the odd man out.

Anyhow, my gripe is mostly on how he gets excused for a lot of the poor results we've had. Sure, Wolves was a punch in the gut and City are City, but most of our ELEVEN league losses were down to us and not some freak circumstance.

Which leads us to where we are now, hoping he succeeds because the alternative is us losing yet another half a season if he starts as flat as he did this one.

By then I think it'll already be too late for some players who we want to keep in the squad.

For me the likes of Bellerin, Laca and Xhaka are the ones that need moving on in the summer.

I quite like Hector and Laca as players and personalities but to me they're just synonymous with the under par Arsenal era of the past 5 years, I just can't see past that. It's not really their faults, Laca's been okayish over the years and Hectors been ruined by injuries. I just want us to move on from that era ASAP.

Xhaka I just flat out dislike and am sick of seeing in an Arsenal shirt. It legit depresses me that he's been considered at starting eleven quality CM for us for the best part of half a decade. He more than anyone is synonymous with our fall into mediocrity to me.

I know it's just 3 players but they're fairly big names / personalities in our squad.

Elneny is what he is. I've always had a soft spot for him. He's very limited but he'll never let you down in terms of effort. So I find it hard to slate him. He probably should be moved on too though.

I think there's a medium ground when it comes to Arteta. I agree that he personally has underperformed this season.

There seems to be two camps mainly. Arteta supporters who blindly try to deflect any blame ( At least some of it he deserves) from him and lay everything at the door of the players / luck / refs etc. I think that's ridiculous.

There's also the virulently anti Arteta group which appears to be growing, probably understandable given the results this year, who don't want to give Arteta any credit for anything good he's done this year, and he has done some good, and knit pick and look for ridiculous reasons just to pile on him.

I still have belief that Arteta can turn it around and I want him to stay at least for next season, but I'm happy to say critical things about his management because I think its warranted at this time and from what I've seen the past 6 months or so.

 

[AberGooner]

At this point I would say Arteta will be here to at least November so he really has to get it right quickly to start next season. Without a Europa win this has been both a failure and complete waste of a season so we have no option to start strongly to begin the new one.

If we're not going to be consistently winning games to end the current season, I at least want to see an entertaining brand of football on display to try and build momentum. I can only think of about 5 games this season qualifying for what I'd call worth watching. The vast majority has been eye bleedingly boring. We really need to stop respecting the likes of Palace or Brighton as though we are coming up against Bayern Munich. Teams should be fearing playing Arsenal but nobody does at the moment and rightfully so.