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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
You’re a slippery one, are you Arteta In or out? Riou out here playing both sides.

I can’t trust someone who’s always flipping positions 🤔

I am 99% Arteta In...though I leave 1% free to mock Mikel, as it's an easy way to get likes ;)
 
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El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
@say yes also, just because this is my 15th page reading this, I do think that when Arteta gave that interview in Spanish a lot of people - including Pro Arteta folks like Gunnerblog and Arseblog in their podcast - discussed how the players would take to listening to the manager saying 5-6 players on the current squad weren't good enough.

Their discussion in particular was around if the players would take it as an incentive to do better or get axed, or do worst because the manager didnot believe in them, and which of those players that were on this particular list.

I don't remember exactly when this interview came out and if its context was against the backdrop of our dreadful run of form (I feel it was), but this was discussed here and by a lot of the Arsenal Media people.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
What's this table / those numbers @Makingtrax ?

You've said that City are spending about £1bn and the bottom club £100m. Based on what? If it's total spend over e.g. a 10y period, it's not showing the current trend of spend over the last few years is it? E.g. the current bottom club (Sheffield United) have spent £121m in the last two years; City £304m. That's a significant gap, but it's not 10x as much, and surely you appreciate the marginal gain of spend decreases the higher those figures go.

More importantly, I was talking about the degree of spend within the league and, in particular, the top 10, not the ratio of spend between 1 vs 20. I will assume you've misread me, rather than being disingenuous by diverting down that tangent.

On which note, I asked a simple question which you haven't answered - do you agree that squad cost applies to clubs in the league outside the top 6? And do you therefore agree that the quality of the league is increasing year-on-year at the moment given how much the lower clubs are spending? Again, there is nothing controversial in there (I hope).
You asked me a question about squad cost. Those are figures for 20/21 published in the press every year for the amount invested by each club to buy the players in their squad. My answer shows you trends over the last 5 years and shows that there is a greater disparity in the league than there was. 5 years ago. The rich are getting richer and gap wider.

I don’t believe the quality of the league is getting any higher than it was 5 years ago either, because although the investment in squads has more than doubled over the last 5 years for EPL teams of all budgets, so has the average transfer fee for players. The average player cost £8.5m in 2015/16, in 19/20 it was £16.1m. I don’t have the figure for 20/21 but It will likely be more. If you have any evidence to the contrary let’s see it.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
We need to settle the debate..."Is the Prremier League getting stronger or weaker?"

We need every poster to say what they think is the greatest Premiership season ever is, in their opinion, it's the only fair way...based on quality of teams, how difficult it was to win, player/manager quality etc.

Think I should make the thread, as that would annoy everyone the most!

It's not about the PL being stronger or weaker for me.

The PL has become more competitive than it's ever been. I'd imagine that's mainly due to the huge TV rights deals. There's not a clearly defined top 4 or even top 6 these days. The days of us having a poor season and just having to scrap it out with Villa for 4th are well and truly gone.

I think what we've seen is the gulf between the naturally top clubs and the rest has contracted by quite a margin really. I think that gives the impression that the top clubs have weakened, when in reality I think it's more down to the rest taking big strides forward.

Liverpool last season and Man City this year are are still two of the best sides in the history of the PL.
 
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Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
It's not about the PL being stronger or weaker for me.

The PL has become even more competitive than it's ever been, I'd imagine that's mainly due to the huge TV rights deal.

I think what we've seen is the gulf between the naturally top clubs and the rest has contracted by quite a margin really. I think that gives the impression that the top clubs have weakened, when in reality I think it's more down to the rest taking big strides forward.

Liverpool last season and Man City this year are are still two of the best sides in the history of the PL.
You clearly haven’t read my post above showing with facts that the gulf is widening. Why make stuff up?
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Is the gap getting smaller between the Top Four/Big Six clubs, because the other clubs are getting better...or because the best teams are getting worse?

I think the likes of Arsenal, United, Sp**s and Chelsea are not at the level they were 5-10-15-20 years ago, regardless of money being spent, the players aren't as good imo...while even the top two, City and Liverpool, I think are not as good as they were 2-3 years ago.

I think football is in a flux right now, barely any teams that really wow me atm.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Country: England

Player:Saliba
Is the gap getting smaller between the Top Four/Big Six clubs, because the other clubs are getting better...or because the best teams are getting worse?

I think the likes of Arsenal, United, Sp**s and Chelsea are not at the level they were 5-10-15-20 years ago, regardless of money being spent, the players aren't as good imo...while even the top two, City and Liverpool, I think are not as good as they were 2-3 years ago.

I think football is in a flux right now, barely any teams that really wow me atm.
It seems that way to me too. Some of those clips you’ve showed from 5/6 years ago show some incredibly quick interplay. But that’s just opinion, it’s very hard to be sure because defending may be tighter and more efficient. Maybe football is ****ed.
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
A-M CL Draft Campeón 🏆
Is the gap getting smaller between the Top Four/Big Six clubs, because the other clubs are getting better...or because the best teams are getting worse?

I think the likes of Arsenal, United, Sp**s and Chelsea are not at the level they were 5-10-15-20 years ago, regardless of money being spent, the players aren't as good imo...while even the top two, City and Liverpool, I think are not as good as they were 2-3 years ago.
The new TV contracts changed the game, as say yes has been saying everyone can spend now. Imagine if someone told you 10 years ago that Ancelotti would be at Everton and Mourinho would manage Sp**s. It would've been unthinkable.
 

goldengod

Member
What concerns me over the past 6 or so weeks is how many unforced errors we're making. When Arteta came in he was super on being committed, trying 100%, not making mistakes etc. but we seem to make at least one mistake a game now. Just for big ones:

- Holding vs. City/Villa in the first 2 mins of each game
- Xhaka vs Burnley
- Ceballos vs Benfica
- Luiz (or the whole team) switching off vs Wolves (yes the red was rubbish, but we should have seen out that half no problem).
 

say yes

forum master baiter
You asked me a question about squad cost. Those are figures for 20/21 published in the press every year for the amount invested by each club to buy the players in their squad. My answer shows you trends over the last 5 years and shows that there is a greater disparity in the league than there was. 5 years ago. The rich are getting richer and gap wider.

I don’t believe the quality of the league is getting any higher than it was 5 years ago either, because although the investment in squads has more than doubled over the last 5 years for EPL teams of all budgets, so has the average transfer fee for players. The average player cost £8.5m in 2015/16, in 19/20 it was £16.1m. I don’t have the figure for 20/21 but It will likely be more. If you have any evidence to the contrary let’s see it.
So you've completely ignored my post and the straight-forward, bolded and underlined question I asked you, and instead told me what I was actually asking? Absolutely sensational carry-on.

Don't know why I ever bother. You're slipperier than a jellied eel.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
@say yes also, just because this is my 15th page reading this, I do think that when Arteta gave that interview in Spanish a lot of people - including Pro Arteta folks like Gunnerblog and Arseblog in their podcast - discussed how the players would take to listening to the manager saying 5-6 players on the current squad weren't good enough.

Their discussion in particular was around if the players would take it as an incentive to do better or get axed, or do worst because the manager didnot believe in them, and which of those players that were on this particular list.

I don't remember exactly when this interview came out and if its context was against the backdrop of our dreadful run of form (I feel it was), but this was discussed here and by a lot of the Arsenal Media people.
Yeah that's been the only interview provided so far. But (a) one interview isn't "constantly" calling the players crap; (b) even in that interview he didn't even say 5-6 players weren't good enough (!), he said we needed to improve at 5-6 positions (no mention of any individuals, individual position or indeed starter vs squad depth), and in particular that we needed to improve our "specificity" to play a 433; and (c) if those comments had any effect at all - which I doubt - it's pretty clear it was positive given the uptick in performances / complete lack of negative reaction from the squad.

I know you're not making these points yourself, but it just boggles the mind that people need to make stupid **** like that up to criticise Arteta with. We're 10th! With a completely inexperienced manager! It's ok not to rate Arteta: you don't need to lie and embellish your case by making up utter nonsense which is easily disproved.

Just awful posting. "I don't rate the manager and therefore everything he does is awful!!"
 

Dutch D

Well-Known Member & FPL Champion 19/20
It seems that way to me too. Some of those clips you’ve showed from 5/6 years ago show some incredibly quick interplay. But that’s just opinion, it’s very hard to be sure because defending may be tighter and more efficient. Maybe football is ****ed.
It also seems that way to me. I think football has become more tactical and as a result more boring. Could be because the financial stakes are even higher, but it is killing the enjoyment of the game for me. Also hate the constant diving and whining. Thought a few years ago there was an effort to reduce this by booking players who clearly made a meal out of things, but that has largely disappeared. Makes the game more frustrating and makes the players look like whining primadonna's. Football might be hurting itself long term with this approach, at the end of the day its raison d'etre is entertaining us plebs.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
So you've completely ignored my post and the straight-forward, bolded and underlined question I asked you, and instead told me what I was actually asking? Absolutely sensational carry-on.

Don't know why I ever bother. You're slipperier than a jellied eel.
The context of my very full reply showed the degree of spending of top 6 and how they‘re pulling away from the bottom 12, with two more teams. And I showed that squad cost doesn’t really apply to the bottom 12 as there spending is too similar, the same as the gap between City and United.

I know you don’t like the answer and so the ‘sensational carry on’ and ‘slipperier than the eel’ stuff is all part of the bluster. Like @Macho, I’m not biting. :lol:
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
The new TV contracts changed the game, as say yes has been saying everyone can spend now. Imagine if someone told you 10 years ago that Ancelotti would be at Everton and Mourinho would manage Sp**s. It would've been unthinkable.
Bro, the average price of players seems to be keeping pace with spend so there’s little advantage to teams outside the top 8. And the disparity between the top teams and the bottom teams is increasing in terms of spending.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
The context of my very full reply showed the degree of spending of top 6 and how they‘re pulling away from the bottom 12, with two more teams. And I showed that squad cost doesn’t really apply to the bottom 12 as there spending is too similar, the same as the gap between City and United.

I know you don’t like the answer and so the ‘sensational carry on’ and ‘slipperier than the eel’ stuff is all part of the bluster. Like @Macho, I’m not biting. :lol:
Yep, I'm definitely the one blustering here. Not the two agenda-driven loons who pretend to be "fair and reasonable" and yet can't answer a straight question.

Don't worry, I'm sure if you both stay mum and keep liking each other's posts then nobody will notice.
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
A-M CL Draft Campeón 🏆
Bro, the average price of players seems to be keeping pace with spend so there’s little advantage to teams outside the top 8. And the disparity between the top teams and the bottom teams is increasing in terms of spending.
Bro, every club outside of West Brom has made its record signing in the last 4 years. You can't act like the landscape hasn't changed when Everton go from signing Cahill for £1m and Pienaar for £2.5m to Sigurdsson for £45m and Richarilson for £35m.
 

Lidl_Reed

Wants a new name
I want to talk about something creepy that happened. I was standing in front of a mirror last night and saw an Arsène Wenger poster behind me. I thought, "Arteta's better than Wenger." And suddenly @Makingtrax appeared and told me how Wenger was the greatest manager of Arsenal Football Club and that we chased him out. Does anyone know how he got in?
 

mirrorstare

Well-Known Member
What concerns me over the past 6 or so weeks is how many unforced errors we're making. When Arteta came in he was super on being committed, trying 100%, not making mistakes etc. but we seem to make at least one mistake a game now. Just for big ones:

- Holding vs. City/Villa in the first 2 mins of each game
- Xhaka vs Burnley
- Ceballos vs Benfica
- Luiz (or the whole team) switching off vs Wolves (yes the red was rubbish, but we should have seen out that half no problem).

Great post, if we're moaning about the individual errors every week then the simplest and most likely explanation is something must be happening aside from our players just not being good enough. The clean sheets disappeared but more importantly, the opposition apparently doesn't need to do much to eventually score against us.

Our players not being good enough is a worthless statement that made people believe at one point we had the 15th best squad in the league.


It also seems that way to me. I think football has become more tactical and as a result more boring. Could be because the financial stakes are even higher, but it is killing the enjoyment of the game for me. Also hate the constant diving and whining. Thought a few years ago there was an effort to reduce this by booking players who clearly made a meal out of things, but that has largely disappeared. Makes the game more frustrating and makes the players look like whining primadonna's. Football might be hurting itself long term with this approach, at the end of the day its raison d'etre is entertaining us plebs.

I have actually enjoyed a lot of the league this season, aside from City entering a boring winning stretch there are as a neutral plenty of reasons to be entertained I feel. The problem is that our football has been the worst we have seen in a very very long time, so of course we aren't used to that.

Even with this improvement we had since christmas I would recommend someone to watch most of the other teams in the league instead of Arsenal, we're simply not entertaining to watch at the moment. And considering we aim to be a ripoff version of the mechanical borefest that is Manchester City that's not going to change soon I'm afraid.
 

Country: Iceland
My point back was that back then it was United. Now it's United, Man City, and Chelsea. Yeah, Chelsea had good players back then but now it's Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal... Not to mention that Everton and Leicester have been showing a lot of ambition.

Wenger is the greatest manager of all-time in the league. Just because he could come in and be an instant hit that doesn't mean everyone can do it.

All I'm saying is that there are other routes that can be explored. Sometimes manager needs backing both with resources and time. And maybe it is alright to explore that option too. Arteta is in his first full season as manager and it didn't go as well as we hoped for. He still has shown some signs that there could be better times next season. The defense has improved and that with absolute bums of players in these positions. We are playing well out of the back and beating pressure very well many times. It took a long time but we are creating chances now. Arteta's star player is 19 years old and has developed very well under him. Saka could even be better next season.

If we sack Arteta after this season so be it. It will be interesting to see who comes next. But expecting managers to have an instant impact just because Wenger, one of the greatest of all time did it is unfair imo. Especially at a club that not only lacks resources compared to rivals but also ambition from the owner to surround that manager with top scouts and all that.
 
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