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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
Have the club generate revenue without him lifting a finger? and not having to worry about his investment getting relegated due to team performance? a team he doesn't want to invest in?

Yeah that's exactly what I think KSE wanted out of this - what else did you think he was hoping to get out of this?

I never said he cares about the club, he 1000% cares about his investment and the bottom line however, which is what the ESL was all about.
You used the word standing. The standing of a club means more than financial. In fact it almost never means financial to football fans.

Arteta also said he understood the logic and why they (they being himself and the players|) were not told, but first he said he found out just before the news was "leaked".

I watched the entire presser and all it left me with is a bad taste in my mouth.

"The ownership and everybody involved in the "process" all of them with the right intentions to defend the club and to put the club in the right position for now and for the future". He actually went on to use the words "genuine intentions". 🤣

"Trust the process"

I'm putting money on it: He was told the ESL was the ultimate goal when, or soon after, they signed him.


And please remember, this is the same man that asked the players to take a pay cut so staff would not be fired, and then watch as the entire scouting team was fired. Who needs scouting in the ESL?
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
You used the word standing. The standing of a club means more than financial. In fact it almost never means financial to football fans.
What's wrong with the word standing? When Kroenke bought the club, we were still seen as a big club. Not quite the best but getting top 4, putting half hearted title challenges until the winter.

What makes you think he wouldn't have wanted that to continue without input from himself? Of course he would it only benefits him.

Arteta also said he understood the logic and why they (they being himself and the players|)
And I can also see the logic, hence me agreeing with Arteta for once. Kroenke who doesn't care about our sport got offered a chance to have all the benefits of being a top club without actually playing like one.

There's sound logic in him taking such a proposal. Would have sucked for the rest of the world, but Arsenal would have been sitting pretty.

The rest of what you said is interesting, but I am not getting into that as its not clear what Arteta knows and doesn't know for me.
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
What's wrong with the word standing? When Kroenke bought the club, we were still seen as a big club. Not quite the best but getting top 4, putting half hearted title challenges until the winter.

What makes you think he wouldn't have wanted that continue without input from himself? Of course he would it only benefits him.


And I can also see the logic, hence me agreeing with Arteta for once. Kroenke who doesn't care about our sport got offered a chance to have all the benefits of being a top club without actually playing like one. There's strong logic in him taking such a proposal.

The rest of what you said is interesting, but I am not getting into that as its not clear what Arteta knows and doesn't know for me.
How would the ESL return us to our standing in the Prem when the Kroenkes took over? How exactly?


He's a football coach who not only said he understood the logic but he defended the logic as being in the interest of the club. Let's be clear here, the ESL was not in the interest of Arsenal FC or football as a sport, and no football manager should see it as such. If you believe it is in AFC's, then your argument is valid but only from your point of view and Kroenkes.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
He's a football coach who not only said he understood the logic but he defended the logic as being in the interest of the club. Let's be clear here, the ESL was not in the interest of Arsenal FC or football as a sport, and no football manager should see it as such. If you believe it is in AFC's, then your argument is valid but only from your point of view and Kroenkes.
I think this is where we disagree. If ESL actually took off, Arsenal and the other clubs involved would have benefitted massively.

From a financial and status point of view (founding members can't get relegated ffs), Arsenal would have been in an amazing position.

It's the moral aspects, entertainment aspects, the competitive aspects - and the knock on effect on everyone in football outside this is where this proposal fell short. These are the things Kroenke doesn't care about - It was selfish.

The other teams in the league in this position takes this deal though I think, that's why I'm not too hard on Arsenal personally.
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
I think this is where we disagree. If ESL actually took off, Arsenal and the other clubs involved would have benefitted massively.

From a financial and status point of view (founding members can't get relegated ffs), Arsenal would have been in an amazing position.

It's the moral aspects, entertainment aspects, the competitive aspects - and the knock on effect on everyone in football outside this is where this proposal fell short. These are the things Kroenke doesn't care about - It was selfish.

The other teams in the league in this position takes this deal though I think, that's why I'm not too hard on Arsenal personally.

You're right. We definitely disagree.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
Arsenal got given an escape rope for their sh*tness from a chopper made of gold and the owner took it.

Then let go of the golden rope when he saw the world crying about it and the chopper getting shot at from all angles.

I'm really not sure how this situation could be seen in any other way? Or am I tripping?
 

Gooner416

Master of Stonks
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Arsenal got given an escape rope for their sh*tness from a chopper made of gold and the owner took it.

Then let go of the golden rope when he saw the world crying about it and the chopper getting shot at from all angles.

I'm really not sure how this situation could be seen in any other way? Or am I tripping?
Sounds like another Die Hard sequel ffs.
 

yorch44

Commander of the Pelotudo Brigade
You used the word standing. The standing of a club means more than financial. In fact it almost never means financial to football fans.

Arteta also said he understood the logic and why they (they being himself and the players|) were not told, but first he said he found out just before the news was "leaked".

I watched the entire presser and all it left me with is a bad taste in my mouth.

"The ownership and everybody involved in the "process" all of them with the right intentions to defend the club and to put the club in the right position for now and for the future". He actually went on to use the words "genuine intentions". 🤣

"Trust the process"

I'm putting money on it: He was told the ESL was the ultimate goal when, or soon after, they signed him.


And please remember, this is the same man that asked the players to take a pay cut so staff would not be fired, and then watch as the entire scouting team was fired. Who needs scouting in the ESL?
Then he punished Özil for not agreeing. Lately Özil was right to not give them his money. He knew how corrupted this board is. He knew that money would not help the staff but the people on top of the club. So they axed him using the excuse of "football issues"
 

mirrorstare

Well-Known Member
At least he said something

Keeping a low profile for those questions was the right move to avoid fans asking the owners why on earth is he still here, wormed his way out of trouble basically.
 

Kav

Established Member
It seems that Arteta knew more than he let on a few days ago when he was asked about the issue. He said at the time he didn’t know much about it. Yet today he says he was told about it before the leak. He knew some of the things about the plans. I can’t speak to how much he knew but he did give the impression when he was asked earlier in the week that all of the discussion around the Super League was news to him.

He’s definitely not someone to be trusted.
 

Iceman10

Established Member
It seems that Arteta knew more than he let on a few days ago when he was asked about the issue. He said at the time he didn’t know much about it. Yet today he says he was told about it before the leak. He knew some of the things about the plans. I can’t speak to how much he knew but he did give the impression when he was asked earlier in the week that all of the discussion around the Super League was news to him.

He’s definitely not someone to be trusted.

Was about to say I am highly sceptical of public appearances of daylight between Arteta and the Kroenke's. It's mainly about soothing the anger to dissipate it.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
You've got to firmly tread the line when you're a manager talking about your employers in public to journalists. He couldn't have really gone any further than he did.

It's makes me laugh when fans say he's a yes man, and in the next breath say how stubborn he is :lol:

Had a gander on Reddit on the thread about this and 95% of opposition fans are applauding him for what he said about the situation. In fact the top voted comment is saying how 'Bold' he was.
 

Papa Wonga

Established Member
Tomorrow need's to be bedlam, we've heard it all before off social media in regards to arsenal fans..

"YEAH WE'RE GONNA PROTEST, **** YOUUU, YEAAAH THIS FRIDAY"

and only 10 turn up.

**** need's to happen, big time.
 

Taneruit

Established Member

Country: Switzerland

Player:Zinchenko
It seems that Arteta knew more than he let on a few days ago when he was asked about the issue. He said at the time he didn’t know much about it. Yet today he says he was told about it before the leak. He knew some of the things about the plans. I can’t speak to how much he knew but he did give the impression when he was asked earlier in the week that all of the discussion around the Super League was news to him.

He’s definitely not someone to be trusted.

Eh, no?

He said he knew shortly before it was announced and he didn't get it at first and couldn't process it because it blew up immediatly. That was sunday.
And in his interview was sunday where he said that he still needs to gather information.

He's saying the same thing he said then. I mean exactly the same thing. There's no contradiction here.
 
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Iceman10

Established Member
You've got to firmly tread the line when you're a manager talking about your employers in public to journalists. He couldn't have really gone any further than he did.

It's makes me laugh when fans say he's a yes man, and in the next breath say how stubborn he is :lol:

Had a gander on Reddit on the thread about this and 95% of opposition fans are applauding him for what he said about the situation. In fact the top voted comment is saying how 'Bold' he was.

This doesn't logically connect for me. The stubbornness is about footballing decisions. The Kroenkes barely understand football, and are aloof, quite the opposite from hands-on Abramovich (who is not good either). Instinctively it is very likely Arteta would not have this job at Arsenal currently with different owners.
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
It seems that Arteta knew more than he let on a few days ago when he was asked about the issue. He said at the time he didn’t know much about it. Yet today he says he was told about it before the leak. He knew some of the things about the plans. I can’t speak to how much he knew but he did give the impression when he was asked earlier in the week that all of the discussion around the Super League was news to him.

He’s definitely not someone to be trusted.

Why is he calling it a leak? It was an announcement sent to the papers. The word leak indicates, to me, he knew before hand.
 
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Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
This doesn't logically connect for me. The stubbornness is about footballing decisions. The Kroenkes barely understand football, and are aloof, quite the opposite from hands-on Abramovich (who is not good either). Instinctively it is very likely Arteta would not have this job at Arsenal currently with different owners.

Most people who are stubborn aren't just stubborn in one facet of their lives though.

The yes man stuff makes zero sense to me. He was very outspoken in the media last summer over the need for the club to invest. Yes men don't say that sort of stuff.

I don't think many would call Wenger a yes man but he never spoke out in the media in the way Arteta did, putting public pressure on for investment.

He's been doing it this season too. Saying he needs 5-6 players for the squad to be where he wants.
If he's outspoken and upfront the fans give him crap and if his press conference doesn't coincide with all this Super League nonsense he gets chided for not speaking out, when Klopp, Pep etc only broached the subject when they were asked about it in their press conferences.
 

Iceman10

Established Member
Most people who are stubborn aren't just stubborn in one facet of their lives though.

The yes man stuff makes zero sense to me. He was very outspoken in the media last summer over the need for the club to invest. Yes men don't say that sort of stuff.

I don't think many would call Wenger a yes man but he never spoke out in the media in the way Arteta did, putting public pressure on for investment.

He's been doing it this season too. Saying he needs 5-6 players for the squad to be where he wants.
If he's outspoken and upfront the fans give him crap and if his press conference doesn't coincide with all this Super League nonsense he gets chided for not speaking out, when Klopp, Pep etc only broached the subject when they were asked about it in their press conferences.
I had it very different about last summer and that's where it started for me regarding concerns about him not pushing the owners to do more. He had a huge amount of capital in terms of goodwill from fans on the back of the FA Cup win but he didn't use that to push the owners publicly. Instead he said the owners were giving him all he needed transfer wise.

We didn't sell some players we should have, probably because the club was looking for better deals. I don't want to pin that on anyone specific, but it does look like an error with the bloated squad that caused management and dressing room challenges. We didn't buy Aouar and instead went with Willian. Partey was bought on the last day of the transfer window when his release clause could have been activated earlier for a proper pre-season.

Just quibbling with you regarding last summer. These are things I stored away among pros/cons for Arteta, and at the time I pur it down to inexperience. As you know I have mainly been a buffer for being relatively open minded on Arteta, until certain things that I found hard to excuse or rationalise for the recent PL matches against Wesf Ham and Liverpool.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
I had it very different about last summer and that's where it started for me regarding concerns about him not pushing the owners to do more. He had a huge amount of capital in terms of goodwill from fans on the back of the FA Cup win but he didn't use that to push the owners publicly. Instead he said the owners were giving him all he needed transfer wise.

We didn't sell some players we should have, probably because the club was looking for better deals. I don't want to pin that on anyone specific, but it does look like an error with the bloated squad that caused management and dressing room challenges. We didn't buy Aouar and instead went with Willian. Partey was bought on the last day of the transfer window when his release clause could have been activated earlier for a proper pre-season.

Just quibbling with you regarding last summer. These are things I stored away among pros/cons for Arteta, and at the time I pur it down to inexperience. As you know I have mainly been a buffer for being relatively open minded on Arteta, until certain things that I found hard to excuse or rationalise for the recent PL matches against Wesf Ham and Liverpool.
Mate we signed Thomas for a £45m one time payment (in line with what would be paid up front on the most expensive of £100-200m transfer fees), Gabriel for £30m, and Willian on a good wage (still curious what that actually is-- would love for someone to show me a link with the actual figures, I remember it was reported by good sources to be something like 100k/w) without any significant sales minus Emi, on an already bloated wage bill, in the middle of a pandemic, without CL, going into our 4th consecutive season in Europa.

To expect anything more financially would be pretty utopic. I am quite impressed with the money given to Arteta and the backing he received.

Now, the execution is another matter. I would've spent that money quite differently, and would've been far more aggressive with sales (AMN, Holding, the main ones who were getting some interest and could've returned decent capital). As I said all summer, as fantastic a footballer as Thomas is, a more realistic and viable approach would've probably been to go for someone like Danilo along with Buendía or Aouar. Then again if were more aggressive with sales we might've been able to afford both Thomas and Aouar (or Buendía, a cheaper and not necessarily much worse option, whose lack of interest in still baffles me).

Either way, it's the use of resources where our summer came apart, as I said over and over again we simply COULD NOT go into the season without acquiring a link in the 10 space, and we didn't (something Arteta publicly recognised we were lacking last summer at the end of the season, and which gave me hope that he very much understood the issues of the team..not that he didn't, I think his planning with Edu was just poor--between perhaps failing to recognise proper targets like Buendía or James, not being aggressive enough with sales--keeping AMN was a really poor decision with Wolves' interest--and perhaps thinking he could get by with Willian and Saka and a more tactical, counter-attacking approach until ESR was fit or we acquired the guy they had earmarked in Aouar). Perhaps we thought Willian was that, but that was miscalculation, then. And we had no shortage of resources to achieve that, whether it was by being more aggressive with sales, going for one of the cheaper options at 10 (James, Brahim), or prioritising the bigger position of need and going for a cheaper option at CM (Danilo), or some combination of these strategies.

Here, of course, Edu has to receive some flak too.
 

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