Mikel Arteta: Mikspected Goals

What does Mikel need to do to keep his job in your opinion?


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Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Women
Trusted ✔️
From 25:00 he starts talking about Arteta / the first team, after talking about his role in the academy and his own personal journey.

Listening to him talk about Arteta reminds me of the great disconnect between what people inside the game say about Arteta and what fans say and think. Surely the truth is somewhere in between but people need to realise that there is not just some kind of pro-Arteta conspiracy inside the game, with people who are close to the game and close to him...yes that can bias them in some ways and that's part of the reason no doubt the truth is somewhere in between, but people would also do well to realise that as said, there is not just some great conspiracy where everyone inside the game has decided to talk effusively about Arteta, there is obviously something to them all believing in him.



Totally agree with this but what a cohesion, fluidity, and positive footballing style looks like in modern football and the modern football also needs to be contextualised. Thinking we are going to see the artistic, fluid Wengerball of 2005-2010 at a high tactical level in the current, modern landscape in the premier league is not a realistic expectation, that type of fluid, artistic football is dead at the top level. People need to pay more attention to what is going on around us...look at Tuchel who is getting (rightfully, because I have always felt he is a top manager) a lot of praise around here, but his Chelsea, despite having superior talent across the board, from attack to midfield to defence, is not producing attacking, fluid football, the style is far from that. We all agree that Guardiola is the gold standard for football in this league but again, just as I wrote in the PL thread, we see that on Saturday, and in 2 of his games out of 5 this season, despite having the gold standard for talent in the league, pick of attacking, midfield, defensive talent, his team has struggled to make any chance of note or even a shot on goal (3 of the last 6 against English opposition if you include the Chelsea-City match in the CL final). Liverpool the same, they played some very fluid football a few years ago but they are as the years goes on always grinding out goals more and more...Saturday it was 3 goals on corners.

Just think people need to pay attention to the competitive and tactical context in football and of course in the premier league, and it's worrying when people can't even acknowledge the most obvious and basic things in regard to this (ie that the league has improved since first half of last decade compared to the rest of the world).
Agreed, I don’t really care about beautiful fluid football, it’s nice but winning football is where it’s at.

I wouldn’t say Liverpool and Chelsea play beautiful football but I wouldn’t say they were boring either. As long as my team regularly creates more chances than the opposition to score goals then I’m happy and entertained.

I’ve been Arteta out longer than most but I think I saw a bit of progress against Burnley. This is the first game (against tricky opposition) in a long time where I’ve felt our defence and midfield actually created enough opportunities for our attackers to impact the game. Usually our forwards are starved of the ball but in this game they got more than enough service to create chances. It was a combination of poor finishing and final/penultimate passing from our forwards that let us down. I don’t see Pepe, Saka and ESR all struggling to control the ball and weight simple passes again in the same game and unless it continues to happen all season I don’t think you can blame Arteta for the unconvincing scoreline. And while it sounds like a cheap excuse the fact of the matter is that not many teams will go to the lengths that Burnley went (long grass, dry pitch) to ruin our game. On a different pitch/day we could have been looking at a 3-0 there.

This is all what-ifs and probably naive thinking of course but If Arteta really does now have the players to make his system work then I’m expecting to see more of the same against Sp**s. The win is the most important thing but just behind that is evidence that our forwards are continuing to get the ball in dangerous areas. If we can do that consistently then we are on to something even if it isn’t the prettiest football.
 

AbouCuéllar

Wishes to get banned elsewhere
I’ve been Arteta out longer than most but I think I saw a bit of progress against Burnley. This is the first game (against tricky opposition) in a long while where I’ve felt our defence and midfield created enough opportunities for our attackers to impact the game. Usually they’re starved of the ball but in that game it was a combination of poor finishing and passing from our forwards that let us down. I don’t see Pepe, Saka and ESR all struggling to control the ball and weight simple passes again in the same game and unless it continues to happen all season I don’t think you can blame Arteta for the unconvincing scoreline. And while it sounds like a cheap excuse the fact of the matter is that not many teams will go to the lengths that Burnley went (long grass, dry pitch) to hamper our game. On a different pitch/day we could have been looking at a 3-0 there.
Yeah, this was exactly my reading of the match. Still, I think it's worth mentioning that Burnley does seem a bit ****, and is probably looking at a relegation battle as the league continues to evolve and superior tactically teams like Brentford are promoted and maybe squeeze them out.

This is all what-ifs and might be wishful thinking of course but If Arteta really does now have the players to make his system work then I’m expecting to see more of the same against Sp**s. The win is the most important thing but just behind that is evidence that our forwards are continuing to get the ball in dangerous areas. If we can do that consistently then we are on to something even if it isn’t the prettiest football.
Having seen what I've seen from Sp**s so far, I would be very, very disappointed if we don't get all 3 pts. But yeah, at the very least we should significantly outplay them and get very unlucky not to win (which would be equally disappointing, though perhaps not as much of an indictment on Arteta). But yeah want and expect 3 pts this weekend for sure.
 

Rasmi

Established Member
Last season, the prevailing excuses among Arteta's fans was that we didn't have a proper pre-season and playin6un Europe hampered us.

But the exuse now seem to be that he need two or three years before we can become competitive again due to the signings we made this season. The scaring thing is that, the club is following this line of thinking.

If we finish 7th with and horrible football and a semi-decent cup run, I can see the Kronkes keeping him.
Top 8 he stays, this man has done an amazing job lowering expectations where people are saying they saw a progress against Burnley in a match we had 1.10 expected goals and hardly created anything
 

Multipass

Active Member
I am currently Arteta out, but he has shown some positives.

- Better use of his bench, defensively.He has been pretty quick to bring on physicality at the right time to sure up the midfield.
- The reintroduction of AMN can only be seen as a positive. Been saying for years he is better than Elneny. Our floor has been raised.
- More adventurous in terms of team selection. I didn't see the 4 3 3 with double 8s coming.
- Not rushing players back from injury. Partey eased in and taken off early point to reflection.
- Say what you want about the signings. They are not insecure physically. Lokonga, Tavares, Tomiyasu, White, Ramsdale. They seem to be able to handle the physicality. Tomiyasu moving from Serie A and adapting instantly is a very good signing.
- Moving ESR to right 8 shows an awareness we need a right footer to balance it out.
- The speed at which he dropped Leno.

Now the main problem now is getting the attack going. I don't think he is the man to do it. I am not sure how he is going to get it to work. ESR and Saka seem to be the ones getting the opportunity to shoot with Pepe and Auba making the passes.

A reverse in those roles probably gets you more goals.

I think we are on the path to playing more regularly through the middle with the shift in formation (as opposed to the ineffective wing play weve been attached to). There was at least three opportunities (or "actions" as Arteta keeps saying :rolleyes:) against burnely where saka, pepe, or ESR could have played a through ball to put Auba/pepe and they fluffled the lines holding on to the ball too long or providing a poor pass. With better decision making I could see the attack starting to click. Bringing Partey or Ødegaard a bit higher up the pitch in the attacking phase will help.

Our biggest issue recently has been how inefficient we have been in front of goal. Thats why i really want to see Pepe receiving the ball in the box, because on his left he is deadly and at the moment i think more likely to score than Auba.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ✔️
I think we are on the path to playing more regularly through the middle with the shift in formation (as opposed to the ineffective wing play weve been attached to). There was at least three opportunities (or "actions" as Arteta keeps saying :rolleyes:) against burnely where saka, pepe, or ESR could have played a through ball to put Auba/pepe and they fluffled the lines holding on to the ball too long or providing a poor pass. With better decision making I could see the attack starting to click. Bringing Partey or Ødegaard a bit higher up the pitch in the attacking phase will help.

Our biggest issue recently has been how inefficient we have been in front of goal. Thats why i really want to see Pepe receiving the ball in the box, because on his left he is deadly and at the moment i think more likely to score than Auba.
The thing is. As long as Pepe continues to play in the right, his opportunities to move central depend on ESR moving right and Tomiyasu overlapping. Those two things occur less than Tierney bombing forward. It is telling that Saka is able to get into the box and Pepe. Tierney holds the flank so Saka can roam.

Yet who are the players more likely to score between Pepe, Auba, Saka and ESR. I think it is literally in that order. It was really strange that Saka and Pepe didn't swap during the game. Then again, Arteta is so rigid in his patterns that it shouldn't surprise me.

Do we have the players to play positional play based on possession? Are they technically secure in the final third? I don't think they are. Out of ESR, Tierney, Saka, Auba, Pepe and Ødegaard. I would say first touch and ball retention really only comes from Ødegaard. All of the other players can lose the ball at any moment with a dodgy first touch. It doesn't mean they are bad players. It just means that playing in a manner which requires them to be immaculate on the ball isn't leaning into their strengths.

We look our most dangerous when we have space to play into. The final ball isn't there, because we find ourselves in counter attacking positions which we clearly don't work on. We work on getting into the final third and then executing patterns. We don't work on broken play, yet the team's strength lies in it.
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
You say see goal against City, so why we can't do that anymore? Why suddenly we need different players to do that? I've heard the same excuses last season. We need to see clear progress in the upcoming games time is ticking.

I don't care how, he makes top 6 or he's out.

Next season top 4 challenge, the season after title charge. That's my expectations.

Top 4 is unlikely for next season if Arteta's still here& a title charge is essentially a pipe dream's pipe dream at this stage 🤣
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
Agreed, I don’t really care about beautiful fluid football, it’s nice but winning football is where it’s at.

I wouldn’t say Liverpool and Chelsea play beautiful football but I wouldn’t say they were boring either. As long as my team regularly creates more chances than the opposition to score goals then I’m happy and entertained.

I’ve been Arteta out longer than most but I think I saw a bit of progress against Burnley. This is the first game (against tricky opposition) in a long time where I’ve felt our defence and midfield actually created enough opportunities for our attackers to impact the game. Usually our forwards are starved of the ball but in this game they got more than enough service to create chances. It was a combination of poor finishing and final/penultimate passing from our forwards that let us down. I don’t see Pepe, Saka and ESR all struggling to control the ball and weight simple passes again in the same game and unless it continues to happen all season I don’t think you can blame Arteta for the unconvincing scoreline. And while it sounds like a cheap excuse the fact of the matter is that not many teams will go to the lengths that Burnley went (long grass, dry pitch) to ruin our game. On a different pitch/day we could have been looking at a 3-0 there.

This is all what-ifs and probably naive thinking of course but If Arteta really does now have the players to make his system work then I’m expecting to see more of the same against Sp**s. The win is the most important thing but just behind that is evidence that our forwards are continuing to get the ball in dangerous areas. If we can do that consistently then we are on to something even if it isn’t the prettiest football.
What is beautiful football? Most times when we think of beautiful football, the first thing that comes to mind is Wengerball. The sad truth is that it is impossible to replicate Wengerball. Even Pep with all his state resources can't even do it.

I just want us to create regular chances, not the 0.7 xG we seem to create every game. It's why A-M attack Saka or ESR when they miss the one chance we seem create every game. I can take the awful football if we're at least creating 3-4 big chances per game. But if you all are expecting Wengerball, forget it. We're never seeing it again :(
 

Pyres7

Well-Known Member
The top 4 is simply too strong, united are the worst of that lot and they've got ronaldo/fernandes/pogba/Greenwood ffs. Our squad is insanely young, not sure what people are smoking saying top 4 is the bench mark. 5th/6th would be a good season, this team will only get better.
I agree that 4th shouldn't be the benchmark, but top 6 isn't necessarily a good season either. That's just finishing where our squad should finish. We're on a similar level to Sp**s and Leicester, and there is no excuse for finishing below a team like West Ham again. Anything below 6th is a failure.

A good season is finishing 5th or 6th AND considerably improving our performances, showing clear signs that we're bridging the gap between us and the top 4. If we get there scraping unconvincing 1-0s and draws against teams we should be beating, he should be out even if we get 6th. He won't, but he should.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Arsenal are still the bigger club, but they will surpass us in the next decade if things don't change
Chelsea surpassed us in 2004 when a billionaire not only took over the club, but decided to invest £1.2bn out of his own pocket. From nothing they've won 5 titles. Then City mirrored this model in 2008 and from nothing they've won 5 titles. This has nothing to do with managers, but money. We've been the 5th richest club for some time. Not in assets maybe, our stadium is worth a lot on prime London land, but in what we can invest in the team.
 

IstraBalagina

Well-Known Member
Top 4 is unlikely for next season if Arteta's still here& a title charge is essentially a pipe dream's pipe dream at this stage 🤣
Arteta stans expectations: midtable for this season, anywhere between 8-12 is acceptable.
The next season challenge for the conference league (press conference league or whatever), and the season next 6th is a progress, trust the process!
And after that we need a squad overhaul because the players are declining, reset...
 
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IstraBalagina

Well-Known Member
Chelsea surpassed us in 2004 when a billionaire not only took over the club, but decided to invest £1.2bn out of his own pocket. From nothing they've won 5 titles. Then City mirrored this model in 2008 and from nothing they've won 5 titles. This has nothing to do with managers, but money. We've been the 5th richest club for some time. Not in assets maybe, our stadium is worth a lot on prime London land, but in what we can invest in the team.
You have to look at history if you want to measure the size of a club
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
I agree that 4th shouldn't be the benchmark, but top 6 isn't necessarily a good season either. That's just finishing where our squad should finish. We're on a similar level to Sp**s and Leicester, and there is no excuse for finishing below a team like West Ham again. Anything below 6th is a failure.

A good season is finishing 5th or 6th AND considerably improving our performances, showing clear signs that we're bridging the gap between us and the top 4. If we get there scraping unconvincing 1-0s and draws against teams we should be beating, he should be out even if we get 6th. He won't, but he should.
5th is our benchmark because that's what we're investing in payers. 6th/7th is sub par, 4th should be the aim. Surely a decent manager should be able to overperform by one place at least once, Arsène did it for 20 years.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Agreed, I don’t really care about beautiful fluid football, it’s nice but winning football is where it’s at.

I wouldn’t say Liverpool and Chelsea play beautiful football but I wouldn’t say they were boring either. As long as my team regularly creates more chances than the opposition to score goals then I’m happy and entertained.

I’ve been Arteta out longer than most but I think I saw a bit of progress against Burnley. This is the first game (against tricky opposition) in a long time where I’ve felt our defence and midfield actually created enough opportunities for our attackers to impact the game. Usually our forwards are starved of the ball but in this game they got more than enough service to create chances. It was a combination of poor finishing and final/penultimate passing from our forwards that let us down. I don’t see Pepe, Saka and ESR all struggling to control the ball and weight simple passes again in the same game and unless it continues to happen all season I don’t think you can blame Arteta for the unconvincing scoreline. And while it sounds like a cheap excuse the fact of the matter is that not many teams will go to the lengths that Burnley went (long grass, dry pitch) to ruin our game. On a different pitch/day we could have been looking at a 3-0 there.

This is all what-ifs and probably naive thinking of course but If Arteta really does now have the players to make his system work then I’m expecting to see more of the same against Sp**s. The win is the most important thing but just behind that is evidence that our forwards are continuing to get the ball in dangerous areas. If we can do that consistently then we are on to something even if it isn’t the prettiest football.
Football is a form of entertainment, first and foremost. People want excitement and they want goals.

Chelsea and Liverpool are scoring regularly and are pleasing on the eye. They've both scored nearly 6 times the number of goals we have, which is totally unacceptable. Hell, West Ham have scored 5 times the number of goals, with a manager whose been a joke on here for years, much less investment and haven't played the bottom two clubs like we have.

It's got nothing to do with referees, pitches, the quality of our players. We look sh!t and we are sh!t. Cowering in our box with 11 players behind the ball for large swathes of the match against a team like Burnley is beyond a joke.
 

Haphazard

Active Member
That's because Chelsea are a proper big club and don't hang on to history like Arsenal do.

As much as I hate to admit it they are the top dogs in London and have been for a while now.
When they won their first CL there was still some argument there

Now with their 2nd CL win and a Europa there is no doubt they are the biggest club in London at this point in time. Of course that can change if and when we start becoming successful again but aside from History, pretty much every other metric for a big club has them beating us out.
 

TornadoTed

Well-Known Member
I agree that 4th shouldn't be the benchmark, but top 6 isn't necessarily a good season either. That's just finishing where our squad should finish. We're on a similar level to Sp**s and Leicester, and there is no excuse for finishing below a team like West Ham again. Anything below 6th is a failure.

A good season is finishing 5th or 6th AND considerably improving our performances, showing clear signs that we're bridging the gap between us and the top 4. If we get there scraping unconvincing 1-0s and draws against teams we should be beating, he should be out even if we get 6th. He won't, but he should.
This is how I see it. No doubt the board see European qualification as the goal and Arteta will most likely keep his job if that is obtained. I appreciate that is important from a financial, and prestige point of view, it isn't a good look for a club of Arsenals stature to not be playing continental football, however from a fans point of view this season for me the finishing position is largely irrelevant.

I would take winning a few, drawing a few and unluckily losing a few if we were playing good football, controlling games, creating 4-5 big chances and looking cohesive over scraping 1-0 wins with our only big chance of the game. The second scenario puts points on the board but the first gives the fans entertainment and hope for better days.
 

Ash10

Softer than Granit 🤩
Funny part is.

Tuchel will win the league this season, but will probably still get sacked before Arteta :lol:
Well they also flog off any player that seems to be a flop as soon as possible, thus getting decent money. & here you have cults of followers coming up with all the excuses under the sun to defend their boys who have flopped massively
 
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