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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Country: England

Player:Saliba
To answer your question. No, and I doubt it will happen here. But it also not a 100% certainty that it will not happen. What keeps me hopeful is that the team seems to be behind him still. That is why I think Ole is in worse trouble. Another manager that you can rightfully critique.

My issue, and why I was having a bit of a laugh in my last post, is more with the over the top comments and total misrepresentation of the views of posters that aren't as rabid as some. It is total group think here on A-M. To get likes and positive feedback posters notice that the more rampant Arteta out you are the better. Dissidents are hounded out and ridiculed. It's basic group psychology dynamics.

Right now e.g. I don't think A-M is very close to where the overall Arsenal fan base is with regards to its views on Arteta and the team. Especially not with the match going fans. I actually partly think they relish being in what feels to me as a dogfight and doing their part in supporting their team. It's partly how I feel. Yes, we are a stodgy watch often but we/I support Arsenal and that to me is most of the fun! I started supporting Arsenal because of Wenger and his football, but that boat has sailed now and I will remain an Arsenal supporter. Just like I support the Denver Broncos, Hannover 96 and Djurgårdens IF. That is the way it is!

Finally, as a group we here at A-M are way more negative and radical. If you are kind you can call us an avant-garde, and if you are not, a somewhat deluded group of lost internet souls... ;)
Funny, but I don’t see it that way. Most posters have rightly criticised the the man for some pretty poor decisions and some terrible football. A few though have been bending over backwards to misconstrue the stats to make him sound like the second coming. If his inconsistency continues though the stadium fans will bend to social media pressure and force the club to take action.

Ironically, it‘s the exact reverse of Arsène’s time here. He always finished in the top 4 but most posters were bending over backwards to misconstrue the stats to make him sound clueless. Eventually of course the stadium fans succumbed to social media pressure and campaigned to remove him.

It’s a strange world in my view.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
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Country: Wales
Moyes is a good coach. Ferguson was a great coach as was Wenger. Comparing Arteta to any of the three right now makes little sense. Arteta is a beginner and to be frank that shows at times. But we cannot hire a beginner and expect that coach not to be a beginner. This was baked in from the start.

It shouldn’t be though? We’re Arsenal and with that comes a certain standard of expectation.

It doesn’t matter if you’re a rookie or not, you should perform. If he wanted a job where he could learn his way up he should’ve taken the Newcastle job.

If he was at any other club that wasn’t a complete basket case he’d have been sacked long ago.
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
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Always find the Fergie comparisons to guys like Teta and Ole a bit disingenuous and a bit if a cop out. Fergie won a European trophy with Aberdeen ffs, he had amazing achievements under his belt even prior to United. I think Klopp pre Liverpool is a fairer comparisons to Fergie pre United. Both had topped the established powers of the respective leagues they competed in, both had success in Europe ect.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
Moyes just picked poorly after Everton. The Utd job was too big and then he went to Spain for some reason and then super dysfunctional Sunderland.

He showed far more than Arteta has early in his career. He used to have Everton performing way above their means and was great at PNE before that.

Also I find the Ferguson comparison really jarring because he broke up the old firm in Scotland with Aberdeen and won a European trophy.

He was one of the best managers in Europe before he took the Utd job whereas with Arteta all we have to go on is what he’s shown us.
Yeah, I'm definitely not comparing Arteta to Ferguson. It was supposed to be a narrow point about whether managers can improve. There is always a mob calling for sackings but I was just making the point that the mob isn't always right. Moyes was brilliant at Everton and dire afterwards. You wouldn't have found a single poster on here who would want him at Arsenal, but look what he's achieved.

I'm extremely sceptical about Arteta now as well but despite that, not sure if I'm confident that the next guy will do better. Management seems to very situational for the most part.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
Those are all very different examples though bro. Fergie had already won a European Cup, he was experienced and successful before coming to United. Under those circumstances it seems reasonable to give him time.

Moyes did really well with Everton. According to Transfermarkt 2002 to 2013 they were investing 11th but he never dropped below that once, finishing in the top 4, and 5th twice. At United when he was sacked his results were very similar to Mourinho and LVG. He’s an experienced manager too.

And Ranieri was a complete fluke, the following season he divided back down the league and was sacked.

Most managers have always cycled up and down, the longevity and sustained form of Arsène and Fergie were exceptional.
Every example is going to be different though, right? You could look at Arteta and say he's been managing two seasons and he's won an FA Cup. If he wins another this season then what does that mean? We can judge Fergie and Wenger because they were around for so long and they've proven that they were greats.

You're initial point was that results don't change for managers. Personally, I'm very sceptical that they will for Arteta, but I'm not sure we can be confident on that - based on other managers, or even his own record.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
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Country: Wales
Yeah, I'm definitely not comparing Arteta to Ferguson. It was supposed to be a narrow point about whether managers can improve. There is always a mob calling for sackings but I was just making the point that the mob isn't always right. Moyes was brilliant at Everton and dire afterwards. You wouldn't have found a single poster on here who would want him at Arsenal, but look what he's achieved.

I'm extremely sceptical about Arteta now as well but despite that, not sure if I'm confident that the next guy will do better. Management seems to very situational for the most part.

If we sacked Arteta and hired Zidane tomorrow for example I’m pretty confident we’d be better. Same with Potter or even Rodgers.

The main issue with Arteta is the consistency. It’s why everyone who backs him has been mugged off so many times by the false dawns that even his fans are now waiting cautiously to see if this time it’s legit.

He’s never won more than 4 games in a row across all competitions. You can look good in some games but if you turn and have a nightmare game or two you’re going to finish midtable. Even now I’m not confident going into any game because I don’t know what team will turn up.

If he was at an Everton or West Ham that’d be great but the club has to decide where they want to go? We have enough of a body of work from him to judge imo.
 

6666Louis

Active Member
Our summer signings are paying off, getting minuts

My rating looking into the crystal ball future:

1 Øde
2 Rams
3 Tomi
4 Sambi
5 Benjamin
6 Nuno

(Quite difficult)
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Country: England
At what point do the majority of us accept the process is working?

Was looking at the manager wish list and I did wonder. Guy hasn't lost in a minute, his line ups are (imo) spot on. His summer signings are doing what they are supposed to do.

What's it gonna take?
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
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At what point do the majority of us accept the process is working?

Was looking at the manager wish list and I did wonder. Guy hasn't lost in a minute, his line ups are (imo) spot on. His summer signings are doing what they are supposed to do.

What's it gonna take?

When we start putting consistent performances in against the "lesser" sides who are properly organised, where we create chances and dominate these matches.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
At what point do the majority of us accept the process is working?

Was looking at the manager wish list and I did wonder. Guy hasn't lost in a minute, his line ups are (imo) spot on. His summer signings are doing what they are supposed to do.

What's it gonna take?

Better football, not just wins but convincing wins against all sorts of opposition, at least going head to head with the top clubs when playing them, all of this consistently for a few months - would finally give us a clear indication of being on an upward trajectory. Spanish coneboy ain't tricking me with wins agains Leeds and Villa and being unbeaten for a month. Hell, Emery was unbeaten for 20 games or such and I still knew he was ****.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
Spanish coneboy ain't tricking me with wins agains Leeds and Villa and being unbeaten for a month. Hell, Emery was unbeaten for 20 games or such and I still knew he was ****.
Indeed I have the Emery run and the Chelsea match last season in the back of my mind. I've not bought in and doubt I ever will, but I feel Arteta (and the club) deserve some credit.

I thought I'd ask my fellow posters what they thought and what the benchmark actually was instead of slagging him off. For me, there aren't many teams playing scintillating football in the league, the nature of the Prem is just different nowadays. Guys happy to avoid relegation Brighton/Leeds can afford to but other than West Ham it gets a bit difficult.

If we gave top 4 a good go and ended up in Europa league come end of the season I'd cut him some slack admittedly, even if the eye test was a bit meh.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
At what point do the majority of us accept the process is working?

Was looking at the manager wish list and I did wonder. Guy hasn't lost in a minute, his line ups are (imo) spot on. His summer signings are doing what they are supposed to do.

What's it gonna take?
Getting back to Top 4. If the process is working, we should be able to get the wins more consistently which would get us to a better position in the table. We are at 10th place, but only 3 points lesser than top 4. So the league is still open.
Truth is it is hard to pass judgements right now. While Pro-Arteta brigade believes that the process is working, we are getting better and we will sustain the pressure on top 4, Anti-Arteta brigade(which I am part of) believes that our good performances are very few and there is no reason to expect the team to do it consistently given Arteta's track record with the team. We can only wait and watch.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
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Country: England
I think the bars that low that the process looks like it's working, I mean last year was that bad any slight improvement looks like the process is going well.

For me, we have to be in the top 4 race until the end & I don't really care what football we play in that time because if we're in a top-four race with a few games to go then we'd of had to be pretty consistent over the year.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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Country: England

Player:Rice
For me, if we got top 4 this season I wouldn't complain about Arteta if we played the same kind of workmanlike / bit lucky football we've seen over most of his spell. I think getting back in the CL and the revenue that brings trump's anything performance related.
He'd get a free pass for me on everything performance wise in the unlikely event he gets top 4 and I'd strongly back him going into next season.

5-6th and playing more consistently to the level we did against Villa / Sp**s against sides we should beat and similar quality sides to us and I'd be fairly content and would mildly back him going into his 3rd season. A general improvement in play against the 3-4 better teams in the league is all I ask even if the results aren't there this season.

5-6th but carrying on in a similar vein performance wise as we've seen.
This would be the problematic outcome for me and one I feel may be the most likely.
Very 50/50 if he should carry on.

7th or below would be intolerable to me irrespective of performance improvement or bad luck or whatever. I can't think of a situation where finishing in such a position wouldn't warrant Mikel being sacked. 2.5 years to still be pretty much where we were when he took over would be unacceptable.
 
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