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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
There are only 2 clubs with a much bigger budget than us and 2-3 clubs with about the same budget (depending on where we finish or change of commercial deals).

Our club decided to heavily invest in contracts, agent fees, and similar stuff, but you guys are always coming back with the net/total transfer spending.
For every contract you waste money on, you're gonna pay for it through less net transfer investment, and this exactly what the club has done for years.

We are spending much more than the likes of WH, Everton, and Villa, but they are outperforming us on the pitch, which means, not good enough from everyone involved (not just Arteta)

Of course, our wage bill has been ridiculous for a number of years now. But again that isn't something you can put on Arteta or even Emery. They can't help it if your Kola's and Mustafi's are on 120k+ a week or if Özil was given a 350k a week deal.

For some time now we've had EL level (and sometimes lower than EL level) players on CL level wages. This is why it was always going to take a little longer for us to rebuild. You have to wait for these guys to actually leave before even beginning to rebuild properly.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Even this summer look at how many players are coming back from loan spells that need futures sorting. Honestly I believe there's more work to do this summer than the last.

In the summer Ødegaard, Ceballos, Luiz, and Ryan will all be leaving unless resigned or in Luiz's case his contract is extended.

After that we have a situation where Lacazette, Chambers, Nketiah, Kola, Guendouzi and Elneny all have a year left on their deals. I'd personally not give contracts to any of them. But on top of that you then have Auba, Leno, Bellerin, Xhaka, ESR, Nelson and Willian who have just 2 years left. With Auba and Willian you obviously just let their deals run, they're fine. Bellerin will be sold and I think Nelson should be sold as well. Leno, Xhaka and ESR will be given new deals.

We have Saliba, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Mavropanos, Torreira, AMN and Willock coming back from their respective loans. I'd like Guendouzi to be given a chance and I think he will be given a chance. Saliba should be integrated into the squad and I don't see why he wouldn't be. Everyone else should be sold.

So once again we have a situation this summer where we'll be looking to get rid of 10 or 11 players, some of which are still on stupidly high wages. I'd be shocked if we sold even half of them.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
You always fail to answer one question though. Why couldn't Arsène progress to challenge for a title when he started spending money? I agree with you to some extent, its fairly obvious that consistent title winners spend big money to win the league. However it is possible to build a title challenging team over 3 or 4 years spending a consistent amount of money opposed to the City/Chelsea route of spending 150-250M in a window to fix issues/improve. Its about signing the right players and also having a good manager of course. This is why I say to you you can't use it as an accurate measurement. There's far too many variables.

We only have this summer to go on with Arteta, his first summer window. But in terms of this summers spending vs current league position, of course theres still a lot of games for things to change. -

Chelsea - spent £222M - 5th
City - spent £138M - 1st
Leeds - spent £96M - 10th
Everton - spent £87M - 8th
United - spent £87M - 2nd
Villa - spent £81M - 11th
Liverpool - spent £78M - 6th
Arsenal - spent £77M - 9th

With the above in mind if Arteta were to finish 8th or above wouldn't that, going by your logic, suggest that he is in the league position that correlates with what was spent this summer?
Those figures are irrelevant. You have to look at how much the club has invested in the whole squad that is competing in the Prem and FA Cup. Here it is. We are not 9th but 5th and Arteta should be doing a lot better.
C2-C957-E7-54-A5-4-A3-C-BF36-56487-D24-B8-AD.jpg
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Based on squad quality/finances, the top four should be...City, Liverpool, United and Chelsea...us and Sp**s should be in the Europa spots, with what we have available to us, in theory.

There are some decent teams next in line (Leicester, Everton etc) but Arteta has had a poor league season, that will be noted by the board (you would like to hope anyway, never know with the gimps running our club) I can't see them sacking him this season tbh, but you would like to think if we don't win the Europa and finish midtable with no European football, that they will at least be putting more pressure on him for next year.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Those figures are irrelevant. You have to look at how much the club has invested in the whole squad that is competing in the Prem and FA Cup. Here it is. We are not 9th but 5th and Arteta should be doing a lot better.
C2-C957-E7-54-A5-4-A3-C-BF36-56487-D24-B8-AD.jpg

That's fair enough, but here lay my problem. I assume that table doesn't take into account Özil and Mustafi not playing/being there now, due to it being published in October? So instantly, if we're talking in euros as the table is in euros, you take 90M euro's off our total, bringing it to 500, so lower than Everton. And then how about Sokratis? 16M euros, he must've been included in the total as well, bringing it down to 484M. Pretty much on par with Sp**s in 6th/7th.

Would you agree or disagree with my logic here? Doesn't make sense to include players costs that aren't here or aren't playing for us, correct? So in reality we should finish 6th or 7th if your narrative is indeed correct and if we do you shouldn't be slating the manager...?

Now you'd have to say City will probably spend another 120M+ next summer, United will spend 100M, Liverpool probably around 50-100M and Chelsea more than likely another 100M. So with us tentatively on a conservative squad cost of around 480M, are you saying it'll take a spend of £300M next summer for us to get into the top 4? Not sure about that myself.

I personally believe with Ødegaard for a whole season, Partey for a whole season, Tierney for a whole season and then say a right back signing, Saliba coming back, a new CM and a fresh attacker that we'd quite comfortably challenge for the top 4 spots.
 
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Maybe

You're wrong, no?
Of course, our wage bill has been ridiculous for a number of years now. But again that isn't something you can put on Arteta or even Emery. They can't help it if your Kola's and Mustafi's are on 120k+ a week or if Özil was given a 350k a week deal.

For some time now we've had EL level (and sometimes lower than EL level) players on CL level wages. This is why it was always going to take a little longer for us to rebuild. You have to wait for these guys to actually leave before even beginning to rebuild properly.
If anything, Arteta/Edu started to clear the squad, something Wenger was refusing to do for years.

They got most of the deals right tbf, but Willian's deal was just unlucky, even his worst critics couldn't expect what happened with him this season. That deal, plus the fact that Arteta completely messed up the first half of the season, ruins all the good work done for the past year, but can still be saved.

There's also worked to be done with youth promotion, it looks like he is only focused on top talent that is ready to play, which is a tricky thing because most kids need a run of games to feel comfortable.
In the future, I think we will see less tier 2 talent like Nketiah, AMN, Iwobi, and Willock, which is not great when you consider our finances and how much money these guys will get us, plus the fact that they cost nothing compared to squaddies like Elneny, Kola, Mustafi, but they are on the same level as players (which is ridiculous)
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
That's fair enough, but here lay my problem. I assume that table doesn't take into account Özil and Mustafi not playing/being there now, due to it being published in October? So instantly, if we're talking in euros as the table is in euros, you take 90M euro's off our total, bringing it to 500, so lower than Everton. And then how about Sokratis? 16M euros, he must've been included in the total as well, bringing it down to 484M. Pretty much on par with Sp**s in 6th/7th.

Would you agree or disagree with my logic here? Doesn't make sense to include players costs that aren't here or aren't playing for us, correct? So in reality we should finish 6th or 7th if your narrative is indeed correct and if we do you shouldn't be slating the manager...?

Now you'd have to say City will probably spend another 120M+ next summer, United will spend 100M, Liverpool probably around 50-100M and Chelsea more than likely another 100M. So with us tentatively on a conservative squad cost of around 480M, are you saying it'll take a spend of £300M next summer for us to get into the top 4? Not sure about that myself.

I personally believe with Ödegaard for a whole season, Partey for a whole season, Tierney for a whole season and then say a right back signing, Saliba coming back, a new CM and a fresh attacker that we'd quite comfortably challenge for the top 4 spots.
Not sure Özil or Sokratis were included in our squad.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
There are only 2 clubs with a much bigger budget than us and 2-3 clubs with about the same budget (depending on where we finish or change of commercial deals).

Our club decided to heavily invest in contracts, agent fees, and similar stuff, but you guys are always coming back with the net/total transfer spending.
For every contract you waste money on, you're gonna pay for it through less net transfer investment, and this exactly what the club has done for years.

We are spending much more than the likes of WH, Everton, and Villa, but they are outperforming us on the pitch, which means, not good enough from everyone involved (not just Arteta)
Investing in their squads, 4 clubs have outspent us in the last few years, City, United, Chelsea and Liverpool. But long term, you can add Sp**s to that list. Everton have pretty much caught us up now. Figures above.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Nobody really knows yet. I think he's probably one of the best coaches in the league, but in terms of man management he probably isn't close to being the best.
Arteta was a coach at city. He is hired to be a manager at Arsenal. If he is such a great coach why not make him a coach and hire a manager? It says a lot that after 18 months of managing you say you don’t know if he is good or not
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
That chart shows how bad we have been in actually assembling our squad, a lot of money wasted.

We are not that far away from Liverpool in terms of spend, but look at what both clubs have acheived since Klopp took over in 2015/2016...Arsenal, no value for money in any way really :lol:
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
That chart shows how bad we have been in actually assembling our squad, a lot of money wasted.

We are not that far away from Liverpool in terms of spend, but look at what both clubs have acheived since Klopp took over in 2015/2016...Arsenal, no value for money in any way really :lol:
We have been down this road a million times on AM. A lot of the groundwork for our current problems were laid in the 2015 to 2018 timeframe. We simply invested poorly and it will take some time and money to reshape the squad. This isn't to defend Arteta or Edu, but there is plenty of blame to go around for our current situation. It started under Wenger and continues to this day.

Only really quick solution would be for the club to be sold to a Russian oligarch sugar daddy or some Middle East oil state as with Chelsea or Man City. Not that I would like either to be honest. At least our owner is a tightfisted, Trump supporting, greedy American business man of the old school... 😪
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Before he signed his bumper contract he was firing for Arteta, afterwards its like he's taken a back seat.
I've seen you mention this a few times, it's not really the case.

First of all, it wasn't before the contract, it was last season.

Secondly, he was being extremely clinical. A level that he has never sustained in his entire career, he was operating at similar levels to Vardy and that's Vardy's superpower that sets him aside from other strikers.

Auba hasn't taken a back seat, things are just back to normal now. Auba was a less clinical player when he was banging in 30-40 goals a season, we've just let him down big time in terms of chance creation.
 

Kav

Established Member
Only really quick solution would be for the club to be sold to a Russian oligarch sugar daddy or some Middle East oil state as with Chelsea or Man City. Not that I would like either to be honest. At least our owner is a tightfisted, Trump supporting, greedy American business man of the old school... 😪

Funny thing is we did have our own Russian Oligarch who loved the club but the tight fisted trump supporting greedy American along with the other board members sidelined him and ensured that he would have had no say in the operation or future of the club. Kroenkes and Usmanov once had the same amount of share holdings (30%) but Kroenke sweet talked his way into lady hales good graces and the other board members and they all said FU to Usmanov for whatever reason. During the entire time Usmanov was the only once saying that Arsenal needs major investment and he was a big Wenger backer. The other sell out board members didn’t give a crap about the club they just wanted to sell their shares to the highest bidder.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
I've seen you mention this a few times, it's not really the case.

First of all, it wasn't before the contract, it was last season.

Secondly, he was being extremely clinical. A level that he has never sustained in his entire career, he was operating at similar levels to Vardy and that's Vardy's superpower that sets him aside from other strikers.

Auba hasn't taken a back seat, things are just back to normal now. Auba was a less clinical player when he was banging in 30-40 goals a season, we've just let him down big time in terms of chance creation.

Auba can't even pass now and he isnt making the movement as much as he was before. Touch is also incredibly off. He isnt just being less clinical.
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
Auba can't even pass now and he isnt making the movement as much as he was before. Touch is also incredibly off. He isnt just being less clinical.
You've been banging on about Auba not being clinical this season and now that's been shown not be be the case you've now come up with the fact that he can't pass. But no one complained of his passing ability last season when he was banging in the goals. Auba is not a problem. He's always scored goals when you create chances for him.

Auba hasn't declined he's still incredibly sharp for a 31 year old. He's one of the fittest players in the league. He's never Injured. He didn't just suddenly decline.

Why's no one asking why our midfield looks poor? And why does our coach play Auba as a fullback against decent opposition?
 

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