Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[AbouCuéllar]

It isn’t though, they were up 2-0 and played it conservatively hoping to catch us out on break or just ride out a 2-0 lead. That isn’t the same as dominating the possession, the term of art you looking for is that Newcastle “let us play” as a strategic choice we were gifted the ball and could do nothing with it. We could of easily been 2 or 3 down at half

They weren't 2-0 up the whole half though. Their goal for instance came on the counter against the run of play at that moment. Like I said, there was a much different dynamic in the second half, where we had more of a say in the game, even before their first goal.

I totally agree with the bolded and that was the point of the post you initially quoted. Not sure why you're even arguing with me so much, when my point was that the first half, and that we have seen so many halves like that against Palace, Brighton, Newcastle, etc., is a very worrying indication for me.

Anyways...

 

[Trilly]

Positive One and Arsenal-Mania season highlights

Grown man screaming Aaron F*cking Ramsdale into the atmosphere uno, disgusted to breathe the same air as him tbh.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

Lads, Artetasexuals are now claiming the rebuild only began this year and you should blame Wenger for us finishing 8th place last season.
@Makingtrax @Macho @SA Gunner @grange

Sauce:

Even Christopher Lee's character in "The Wicker Man" didn't have this much of a stranglehold on his cultists

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Lads, Artetasexuals are now claiming the rebuild only began this year and you should blame Wenger for us finishing 8th place last season.
@Makingtrax @Macho @SA Gunner @grange

Sauce:

He's not wrong, though I'd certainly give Em*ry major blame for the decline as well, as he seriously aggravated in a short period of time what was already occurring over a long period under Wenger.

 

[Baki]

Even Christopher Lee's character in "The Wicker Man" didn't have this much of a stranglehold on his cultists

Truly dimwitted individuals.

 

[Baki]

He's not wrong, though I'd certainly give Em*ry major blame for the decline as well, as he seriously aggravated in a short period of time what was already occurring over a long period under Wenger.

HAHAHA....You're agreeing with him. On what basis?

 

[Trilly]

Is it only woodside like this or North London in general?

West London has always been traditionally wealthy, the 2012 Olympics gave a lot of east London a boost. The two Westfield shopping centres are in east and west too.

South and North London are simply places that people live now, nothing happens there.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

HAHAHA....You're agreeing with him. On what basis?

On what basis do you disagree? The decline during late-era Wenger into Em*ry is very well documented and easy to demonstrate statistically, and a reverse in that decline since Arteta arrived is also easy to document.

Whether Arteta is doing a good enough job is a big question, but whether he has stopped the decline and left the club better than where he picked it up is certainly an easy question to answer and rather irrefutable.

re: the question of if this is our first year of the rebuild or the concept of the rebuild started this year, meh, I'd have more qualms with that statement, though it could be said that this is the first year that the rebuild has occurred in earnest, though that does not alleviate potential blame for Arteta (because he has chosen to operate in this fashion, and it has always been about striking a balance between stopping the rot and making a true rebuild of the club for an interesting project with potential, and certainly we can debate about how well he has struck that balance or not...and in short, the rebuild starting this year as the poster says doesn't really mean anything, it's a rather arbitrary statement which doesn't really bring much to the conversation for me).

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Lads, Artetasexuals are now claiming the rebuild only began this year and you should blame Wenger for us finishing 8th place last season.
@Makingtrax @Macho @SA Gunner @grange

Sauce:

Oh FFS, insanity. At least under Wenger the team didn’t bore you to death

 

[Riou]

Seeing Ramsey miss a pen has broke me.

Time is up, Mikel...time for Paddy V to sort this **** show out!

 

[Baki]

On what basis do you disagree? The decline during late-era Wenger into Em*ry is very well documented and easy to demonstrate statistically, and a reverse in that decline since Arteta arrived is also easy to document.

Whether Arteta is doing a good enough job is a big question, but whether he has stopped the decline and left the club better than where he picked it up is certainly an easy question to answer and rather irrefutable.

Actual lies.

Wenger last 2 seasons:
- 5th place: 75 pts
- 6th place: 63 pts

Emery took over and got us 5th place with 70pts and reversed the decline in points picked up in the league.
Then the ***** Arteta took over and he began the decline with 8th place (56pts), then 8th place (61pts) and now he might achieve 66 or 69pts this season. Both point totals would be below what Emery achieved.

Arteta era started a decline below EL places and now he's returning us back to EL after record investment. I doubt he can maintain that.

 

[Baki]

Oh FFS, insanity. At least under Wenger the team didn’t bore you to death

@AbouCuéllar agrees with that poster. The insanity. LOL
This @AbouCuéllar trying to explain how Arteta is the 2nd coming and all the bad results is Wenger's fault.

 

[Paperino]

AbouCuellar is a troll. Put him on ignore.

 

[Farzad Stoned]

They weren't 2-0 up the whole half though. Their goal for instance came on the counter against the run of play at that moment. Like I said, there was a much different dynamic in the second half, where we had more of a say in the game, even before their first goal.

I totally agree with the bolded and that was the point of the post you initially quoted. Not sure why you're even arguing with me so much, when my point was that the first half, and that we have seen so many halves like that against Palace, Brighton, Newcastle, etc., is a very worrying indication for me.

Anyways...

It seems you keep trying to hold the lily on this pig dung sandwich the team and the manager laid on our doorstep. You asked why I keep arguing with you and it is your general positivity of the manager the pace of improvement I think maybe me and other posters take issue. I give you credit not a good time to back the concept of progress and you are in here doing it, but for the money and 2 and half years of humiliation we haven’t improved at all in my mind, if we have it has been a marginal improvement despite of Arteta as much as because of him. I think people on the site and I hesitate to speak for others, I know I am just sick of this never ending project with no pay off but tons of money

 

[Paperino]

Lads, Artetasexuals are now claiming the rebuild only began this year and you should blame Wenger for us finishing 8th place last season.
@Makingtrax @Macho @SA Gunner @grange

Sauce:

The rebuild was initiated in the summer of 2020 according to Edu. Thats 2 years ago so that Reddit prat is talking nonsense.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Actual lies.

Wenger last 2 seasons:
- 5th place: 75 pts
- 6th place: 63 pts

Emery took over and got us 5th place with 70pts and reversed the decline in points picked up in the league.
Then the * Arteta took over and he began the decline with 8th place (56pts), then 8th place (61pts) and now he might achieve 66 or 69pts this season. Both point totals would be below what Emery achieved.

Arteta era started a decline below EL places and now he's returning us back to EL after record investment. I doubt he can maintain that.

We're not going to go in circles here.

I've posted a million times my point of view. You put more emphasis on over-playing performance level PTS totals that mean little, and always disingenuously completely eliminate Em*ry's performance in 19-20.

The facts speak for themselves, in the end. We are in the cusp of qualifying for top 4 for the first time since 2015/ 2016. We have seen easily our best performance level over the course of a season since Wenger's time (with 3 games to play we have already surpassed Em*ry's xPTS total for all of 18-19 by 2.30 pts, and are now at the same xPTS per game as Wenger left the team at, in a more difficult league).

Arteta picked up a team from Em*ry's disasterclass that was performing at 1.23 xPTS/g, and took it to 1.54 the season after, and now 1.75 through 35 games this season. The progress is steady and notable. We have not controlled games or been as tactically coherent as we are this season for a long, long time...it's hard to really remember the last time (I'd say 12-13, but again, very, very different leagues...the level of the Premier League was at its lowest in this century during that period--well, 15-16 was probably the low point, but 11-16 was easily the worst level of the Premier League in this century) we were this tactically coherent and well-drilled, not to mention with a team that is clearly well-motivated and well behind the manager.

Anyways, @Kav , your statement isn't even true in a vacuum, with all context removed: in Em*ry's 51 games he had a 1.47 xPTS/g, in Arteta's 76 he has a 1.50.

Then, you add the crucial context of the fact that Em*ry picked up a team on a 1.73 xPTS/g level and took it to 1.54 the season after and 1.23 the season after, and Arteta picked up a team on a 1.23 xPTS/g level and took it to 1.54 the season after, and 1.59 so far this season, and the picture becomes much clearer (factoring in the HUGELY relevant context of how the team was performing wrt to the league when the manager picked the team up...call me crazy but that HAS to be discussed when analysing managerial performance ).

In short, getting tired of having to debunk these specious Em*ry arguments.

What's funny is just because people completely ignore performance level--the only thing that actually matters when talking about managerial performance, unless you believe that managers should get credit for having good luck, in which case, you'd also have to posit that Brendan Rodgers was a great manager the last two seasons but **** this season, lol--when discussing Em*ry and Arteta, or at least as far as it is convenient for them. Em*ry's first season is somehow seen as a good season by Arsenal fans, and Arteta's first full season a complete disaster--yet the performance level was exactly the same (1.55 xPts- 1.54 xPTS/g, 58.98 xPTS to 58.97 xPTS to 58.72 xPTS), the only important difference being that Em*ry had picked up from a team that put up 65 xPTS the season before, and Arteta from a team that was achieving 1.23 xPTS the season he picked it up, and a total of 1.47 xPTS over Em*ry's reign. So Arteta, depending on how you look at it, in his first full season either improved MASSIVELY--1.23 xPTS/g to 1.54--or significantly--1.47 xPTS, or perhaps if you averaged out the performance level of the actual team he picked up from and the performance level of the 38 sample from the season before, which would be 1.35 xPTS, to 1.54--upon his predecessor, whereas Em*ry worsened MASSIVELY from 1.73 xPTS-1.55 in his first season, and yet somehow you all want to make it out like Em*ry's first full season was better than Arteta's.

It's simply put, very poor reasoning and logic.

Anyways, I know better than to get into an argument with you, or other agenda-driven members around here. But yes, the fact that a decline occurred during Wenger's late era here is hard to refute, as is the fact that a further decline occurred after Em*ry's arrival, as is the fact that there has been a reversal in that decline since Arteta's arrival, if not the kind of radical reversal some of us, including myself, hoped for.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

The rebuild was initiated in the summer of 2020 according to Edu. Thats 2 years ago so that Reddit prat is talking nonsense.

How do people forget this? Arteta also promised Willian the CL in 3 years and he was meant to qualify for CL last year. This season they couldn't even articulate their objectives! It's all nonsense.

 

[Batman]

How do people forget this? Arteta also promised Willian the CL in 3 years and he was meant to qualify for CL last year. This season they couldn't even articulate their objectives! It's all nonsense.

The trouble with people who are constantly moving goalposts is that they can't remember where the original line was and so they're constantly caught out by those of us who are consistent.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

We're not going to go in circles here.

I've posted a million times my point of view. You put more emphasis on over-playing performance level PTS totals that mean little, and always disingenuously completely eliminate Em*ry's performance in 19-20.





Anyways, I know better than to get into an argument with you, or other agenda-driven members around here. But yes, the fact that a decline occurred during Wenger's late era here is hard to refute, as is the fact that a further decline occurred after Em*ry's arrival, as is the fact that there has been a reversal in that decline since Arteta's arrival, if not the kind of radical reversal some of us, including myself, hoped for.

Yes the decline (in league position) started under Wenger but we still played good football and were in contention for top 4 and cups for a prolonged period. It could be argued that Emery stabilised our reduced circumstances with a reduction in playing style. The reversal in decline by Arteta is the major decline that he himself started. From 8th and hope in the EL sweetened with a flukey FA Cup, to 8th and no Europe to the previously unacceptable 5th place when it looked easier to claim 4th. Worse all over the park statistically and to watch . Every decline at other clubs has been reversed by good managers and money.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

1) It could be argued that Emery stabilised our reduced circumstances with a reduction in playing style. 2) The reversal in decline by Arteta is the major decline that he himself started.

1) Have no idea how you can make a good, or convincing argument for this, tbh.
2) How does that make any sense, given the data I present above? Really a quite confusing statement, tbh.

What's really telling for me is that all of the people pushing the anti-Arteta agenda magically airbrush Em*ry's 19-20 performance or the actual state of the club when Arteta picked it up was (which is of course, directly related to Em*ry's 19-20 performance). It's really, really quite baffling to me, and amazing that people can feel comfortable completely comfortable removing such massively relevant and signficant inputs from the argument, and feeling that their argument is still coherent.

To me, like I say, it's really quite telling, and can tell you a good deal about who is a serious poster, who is someone really considering the facts and the argument, and who is just looking to confirm their biases and pre-conceived feelings.

Anyways, typical of my arguments in these threads, I started mentioning a major concern about Arteta (how we can be dominated so roundly by lower sides like Palace, Brighton, or Newcastle in full halves), to offering counter-arguments to radical arguments that are rather hard to accept or give any reasonable support. Which is typically what happens. It is hard to have any kind of interesting discussion when it is foam at the mouth times in this thread, or really even in the best of times.