Mikel Arteta: Miktoria Concordia Crexit

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
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Okay so next question..who at the club is going to help him develop as a manager?

Vinai and EDu are both rookies, Tim Lewis is a lawyer. Maybe you could develop a manager at a club like City but how does that work here where our executives are all clueless/learning?

Yeah that’s the million dollar question. My guess is that we have football expertise at the club which helps with the technical analysis, planning, scouting, etc. With a top line consisting of young football people (Arteta, Edu, Vinai, Mertesacker, etc.) who are also smart but are ultimately learning on the job.

That’s what the club committed to in 2019, I don’t see it any other way. And now, they are running with that decision, known as the process.
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
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There's no sugarcoating it imo. You don't spend 150m and finish 66 (or 69?) points and call it a successful season. That's madness. 2017 our former manager got slaughtered for getting 75 points.

Even last season Arteta's biggest fan here, HairSpray told us he expected us to get top 4 last season and now a year later we're told we shouldn't expect to get top 4 because Arteta is removing the "rot" and "the process is still not complete"

This season has been a huge failure. The most painful aspect is that we're being told that the team have exceeded expectations already this season.

Fecking mental!
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
Well my point is that the overall result is okay, and the end of season collapse was awful. Which makes the season a poor one overall.

Do you think 5th place while being out of Europe is anything better than okay?

As for the culture stuff, all the cultural reset PR we’ve seen hasn’t lead to much improvement. He’s been resetting the culture since he got here and it’s lead to 8th, 8th and probably 5th. Pointless stuff.
He has reset the culture we went from a vibrant attacking team who would play the most watchable football in the division and still be a top club. He has replaced that culture with Joseball 2.0 without the trophies. A massive culture change in 2 and half years good work Mikel. He literally has morphed us into Bolton or Stoke 2010 or Burnley with a big payroll.
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
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Yeah that’s the million dollar question. My guess is that we have football expertise at the club which helps with the technical analysis, planning, scouting, etc. With a top line consisting of young football people (Arteta, Edu, Vinai, Mertesacker, etc.) who are also smart but are ultimately learning on the job.

That’s what the club committed to in 2019, I don’t see it any other way. And now, they are running with that decision, known as the process.
For me, you can get away with having a rookie manager if you have an experienced back room staff. But having an inexperienced coaching and technical staff especially at a big club like Arsenal is a recipe for disaster.


The problem is the board will stick with him for as long as possible. They've invested too much to just back out now. It will take a monumental collapse, probably another November-december 2020 type of run to really jolt the board into action.
 

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Arteta
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There's no sugarcoating it imo. You don't spend 150m and finish 66 (or 69?) points and call it a successful season. That's madness. 2017 our former manager got slaughtered for getting 75 points.

Even last season Arteta's biggest fan here, HairSpray told us he expected us to get top 4 last season and now a year later we're told we shouldn't expect to get top 4 because Arteta is removing the "rot" and "the process is still not complete"

This season has been a huge failure. The most painful aspect is that we're being told that the team have exceeded expectations already this season.

Fecking mental!
I wouldn’t call this season a huge failure. It’s decent but the context makes it disappointing.

I genuinely don’t get the logic of viewing being back where we started as a success. Maybe it’s a success relative to the lows he took us too, but how does that make it a success when viewed objectively?

Without context he’s had two bad seasons and one decent one (I set the bar for good as being better than Emery aka 70 point barrier). Add context though and he’s had three bad seasons. Yet he’s just been given an extension, it’s insane.
 
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SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
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Sunk cost fallacy & the absurd notion that it’s better for a club with our limited resources to continue investing into a failed project because we have limited resources? You do realise that’s the exact opposite of what a club with limited resources should do. As we don’t have the luxury of getting it wrong (because money is limited), it’s better to cut out failed projects as soon as possible as reserve the money for managers that are actually going to be successful for this club, otherwise we’re going to end up in a situation of cutting Mikel far too late and then having no money to back the right manager to turn things around.

Well in return Id put it to you that the club do not see continued investment in Arteta as sunk cost, nor have considered the sunk cost fallacy in this case. And I’ll tell you why I think that.

Firstly, I think you are right when you say we are a club with limited resources and therefore have to take further steps, give more time and invest smarter because we cannot just restart.

I think the club clearly do not see Arteta as a hopeless cause, or an investment that will no longer bring the needed returns. Because we see their actual actions, and will probably see more this summer.

The real question is, who’s right? Baki with <insert pronoun> analysis on Arteta, or the club’s analysis on Arteta. Guess time will tell.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
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For me, you can get away with having a rookie manager if you have an experienced back room staff. But having an inexperienced coaching and technical staff especially at a big club like Arsenal is a recipe for disaster.


The problem is the board will stick with him for as long as possible. They've invested too much to just back out now. It will take a monumental collapse, probably another November-december 2020 type of run to really jolt the board into action.

Yeah, this is a real possibility now and if it’s the reality, then we are indeed in trouble.

I sincerely hope it’s a case of my analysis being the right one. That the club are onto something good here, and not saving face and money and Arteta being a failed experiment/project. Not because I wanna be right and stick my tongue out at you, but rather because if this **** ****s up, we’ll probably be in a hole we won’t afford to get out of.
 

Oxeki

New Threads, Old Tweets
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I wouldn’t call this season a huge failure. It’s decent but the context makes it disappointing.
Yeah that's what I meant. Spending huge sum and then literally having to play 1 game per week for the majority of the season and then multiple rivals having a subpar season. Then finishing below your bitter rivals who sacked their manager midway through the season.

Maybe after the low of last season, finishing 5th is a decent achievement but looking at it contextually, it's been a hugely disappointing season.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
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This is complex in my view and I'm not going to go too deep into it. If you want my opinion on these topics I've detailed them in the past.

I think it mainly comes down to how best to maintain our portfolio of players. I thought the squad was badly in need of investment as we had allowed the value of our assets to decay. If one accepts my premise then restoring the real value of our squad is a necessity. If we want to future proof the squad with young players then we have to recognise that costs us money and points on the pitch in the short term as young players are inconsistent and could easily be outperformed by a more experienced option. I personally believed there was a cultural problem at Arsenal that started to develop with Özil and got worse under Emery, changing that results in fallouts, costs money and therefore points on the pitch. We have sold poorly for a long time including under Wenger which has cost us money and points on the pitch (I'm not absolving the current regime, there has been some horrendous outgoing business). All things considered, we only had so much available to invest limiting the potential size and quality of the squad. Investment proceeded with the one-game-a-week factor in mind, and even if we wanted to, we couldn't have constructed a squad that could maintain a good standard in both European and domestic competition. We had key injuries toward the end of the season contributing to our collapse which really comes back to squad quality.

For me personally, it comes down to agreeing with the basic premise that if we keep thinking long term and making good long term investments then the quality and mentality of the squad will improve and so will our potential.

You focused on a very small part of my post, what did you think of the rest of it?
Lol. Compare Arteta’s seasons with a similar time scale before under Unai and Arsène. All those so called soft players with a cultural problem under previous managers finished higher in the league, lost fewer games and scored more goals.

Thinking long term! Lol. Arteta’s recruitment has been poor. He’s spent a lot, given very good players away, thinned the squad before a crucial time of the season and bought a number of substandard players, eg Willian, Mari, Runarsson, Lokonga, Tavares, Cedric. The jury’s out on White and Ramsdale. Have they performed better than Saliba and Leno would have done costing him nothing? Partey and Ødegaard, maybe Tomi, his only class players that might get in other top 6 teams. ESR, Saka, Xhaka, Martinelli, Tierney, Laca are all from other managers. There’s no sign our recruitment is improving

And there’s no sign of the mentality improving. 5-0 City, 4-0 Liverpool, bottom of the top 6 mini league, it’s getting worse.

You‘ve either swallowed a social media narrative or your head is playing tricks on you.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
I barely engaged you. You asked me a question and I asked one back. You’re just being a baby and disingenuous to boot.

I thought we could have a rational discussion but I should have known better. Consider yourself well and truly left alone.
I'm trying to do some other stuff. I've tried to answer your questions to the best of my ability, if I haven't it's because I've misunderstood, not because I've tried to avoid them.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Lol. Compare Arteta’s seasons with a similar time scale before under Unai and Arsène. All those so called soft players with a cultural problem under previous managers finished higher in the league, lost fewer games and scored more goals.

Thinking long term! Lol. Arteta’s recruitment has been poor. He’s spent a lot, given very good players away, thinned the squad before a crucial time of the season and bought a number of substandard players, eg Willian, Mari, Runarsson, Lokonga, Tavares, Cedric. The jury’s out on White and Ramsdale. Have they performed better than Saliba and Leno would have done costing him nothing? Partey and Ødegaard, maybe Tomi, his only class players that might get in other top 6 teams. ESR, Saka, Xhaka, Martinelli, Tierney, Laca are all from other managers. There’s no sign our recruitment is improving

And there’s no sign of the mentality improving. 5-0 City, 4-0 Liverpool, bottom of the top 6 mini league, it’s getting worse.

You‘ve either swallowed a social media narrative or your head is playing tricks on you.
Look at this @Trilly I've been typing like a Mfer all day. Got to walk away now.
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
There's no sugarcoating it imo. You don't spend 150m and finish 66 (or 69?) points and call it a successful season. That's madness. 2017 our former manager got slaughtered for getting 75 points.

Even last season Arteta's biggest fan here, HairSpray told us he expected us to get top 4 last season and now a year later we're told we shouldn't expect to get top 4 because Arteta is removing the "rot" and "the process is still not complete"

This season has been a huge failure. The most painful aspect is that we're being told that the team have exceeded expectations already this season.

Fecking mental!

I've exceeded my patience, that much is certain :lol:
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐
Yeah that’s the million dollar question. My guess is that we have football expertise at the club which helps with the technical analysis, planning, scouting, etc. With a top line consisting of young football people (Arteta, Edu, Vinai, Mertesacker, etc.) who are also smart but are ultimately learning on the job.

That’s what the club committed to in 2019, I don’t see it any other way. And now, they are running with that decision, known as the process.
So none of this @samspade stuff about changing the rotten culture and developing a squad for the future. Basically what I think your standpoint is:

Arteta and Edu haven’t been good enough so far, but they’re learning on the job, might as well stick with it because KSE have committed to it now and aren’t going to change. Let’s relax and see where it goes, they might surprise us, who knows.

No frills, no bull sh!t. I can live with that.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Trusted ⭐
So none of this @samspade stuff about changing the rotten culture and developing a squad for the future. Basically what I think your standpoint is:

Arteta and Edu haven’t been good enough so far, but they’re learning on the job, might as well stick with it because KSE have committed to it now and aren’t going to change. Let’s relax and see where it goes, they might surprise us, who knows.

No frills, no bull sh!t. I can live with that.

Look Trax, I think they are trying to force the whole culture reset thing, growing olive trees for philosophical meetings, going room to room with the same speech and energy, and other things Guillem BallaGOAT waxed lyrical about. We'll probably see more of that in the All or Nothing doccie.

Power to them, whatever they need to do to take the project to a success, I'm all for that, as we are here now anyway, and unless things really go to the dogs, they'll be here to stay for the foreseeable future. And I dont think we want things to go to the dogs, because after the Arteat OUT brigade have completed their lap of honour, will we be altogether, supporting a failed club.

I look favourably at the process, not just because I could be delusional, but also I have faith in people to get it right if they work hard enough, especially with so much at stake for us as a club, and them with their reputations, especially around these times. And more importantly realising that they ****ed up with Wenger and Emery and we cant do that again if we want to remain a serious club.

So TLDR; We will persist with this until our success or failure is undeniable.
 

yorch44

Established Member
So none of this @samspade stuff about changing the rotten culture and developing a squad for the future. Basically what I think your standpoint is:

Arteta and Edu haven’t been good enough so far, but they’re learning on the job, might as well stick with it because KSE have committed to it now and aren’t going to change. Let’s relax and see where it goes, they might surprise us, who knows.

No frills, no bull sh!t. I can live with that.
If he needs more experience and learn can we send him on loan to Marseille then? That way we can get Saliba back maybe.
 

OSBK

Established Member
This season is a massive failure, its not decent.

This season
Chelsea in dissaray
Terrible Sp**s team
Horrific utd team
West ham, leicester screwed by europa
Newcastle havent had a chance to spend yet

Next season
Chelsea under new owners and back on track
Sp**s will have CL money
UTD will spend and will be better
West ham/leicester/villa will be pushing top 8
Newcastle will spend to get top 6 maybe top 4

This season was our chance to catch chelsea, leave Sp**s behind and move away from the europa chasers. Get a cushion between us and utd and newcastle. CL is vital and by some miracle we get it then it transforms us for next season. Anything less is a utter disaster.
 

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