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Mikel Arteta: Miktoria Concordia Crexit

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
:lol: It's not me running the club is it. Arsenal don't have infinite resources so yeah they have to hope it works.

The relationship was crap to begin with, but they thought having kids would fix the marriage.

Not all managers are Arteta. Not all managers are so shiiite that they demand an entirely new 11 in order to come 5th in a 4 horse race.
Get a proper manager and he will work with what we have, plus or minus, and get much better out of them than Arteta ever will or could. Giving Arteta more money to piss away on mediocrity because let's ;et it play out and inshallah is sheer folly, and a terrible way to run a football club.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator
Jesus is £55m for one player which is over half of the whole Brentford squad. If he wants that through sales he going to have to stop running our expensive players down eg Auba, Pepe, Laca.

Mind you the clubs idea of giving players to other managers to develop may pay off, bet Saliba would fetch a fair bit and Guendouzi too, if they hadn't put in that option to buy (stupid).

100%

I was thinking the same thing about Saliba actually and mentioned it in his thread.

If Arteta refuses to play him, then he would be wise to keep him out on loan so that his profile continues to grow. He could either become a star here, or as much as I wouldnt like it... be a star somewhere else. At the very least, the club must not let a big money transfer opportunity pass, if going for the latter option.
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
100%

I was thinking the same thing about Saliba actually and mentioned it in his thread.

If Arteta refuses to play him, then he would be wise to keep him out on loan so that his profile continues to grow. He could either become a star here, or as much as I wouldnt like it... be a star somewhere else. At the very least, the club must not let a big money transfer opportunity pass, if going for the latter option.
Saliba has 2 years left on his deal. His situation has to be resolved this summer. Loaning him out is not an option. Either sell or extend and I doubt he extends
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Dusted 🔻
Not all managers are Arteta. Not all managers are so shiiite that they demand an entirely new 11 in order to come 5th in a 4 horse race.
Get a proper manager and he will work with what we have, plus or minus, and get much better out of them than Arteta ever will or could. Giving Arteta more money to piss away on mediocrity because let's ;et it play out and inshallah is sheer folly, and a terrible way to run a football club.
I agree, but this is what the club wants to do and for all my b*tching on an internet forum it's not changing. It is what it is.
 

Haphazard

Active Member
I was all for sacking Tets until the last summer window happened, but too much has gone into it now where you can't sack him lightly anymore. You'd have to find a coach that sees Ben White, Ødegaard and Ramsdale as starters otherwise that's a lot of time and millions wasted.

This just has to play out, you have to be Arteta in now.
It's a sunk cost fallacy when the truth is a better manager gets way more out of this current team.

By now we should see that he has terrible talent ID as evidenced by signing the multiple flops he did, makes no sense to continue giving him money.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Why not comment on the fax.
Because the 'fax' are an extremely limited view of the totality of the financial situation of Arsenal. If a proper analysis were carried out it would include contract lengths, wage bills, estimated sell on values, value added (or subtracted) to players over the course of his tenure. You can't quote a couple of figures and come up with a definitive answer on any question when you're dealing with an operation as big and complex as Arsenal.

So do you want him gone rn? Answer the question.
 

Camus

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐
-Arsène averaged 75 points a season over 22 years.
-Unai got 70 points in his first season.
-Conte got 71 points in his first part season

Arteta is about to try to reach 70 points at the 4th time of asking with a bigger investment than any of the above - fact.
Another bizarre thing is that people talk about this "project" and "process" but I don't think a single manager of any supposedly "big" club in this league has ever been given a multi-year project/process to achieve top 4/CL.

Manchester United:

  • Moyes- sacked after 9months for having the club 7th.
  • van Gaal- Achieved 4th in his 1st season. Wins FA Cup in 2nd seasons but has the club 5th so gets sacked.
  • Mourinho- 6th in his 1st season but wins the LC and EL thus achieving CL football. In his 2nd season he finished 2nd in the PL and runners in the FA Cup. Sacked 4 months into his 3rd season for having the club 6th.
  • Ole finished 6th in his 1st half a season. Finishes 3rd the following season and 2nd the season after that. Sacked after 3 years for having the club 7th
Sp**s:
  • Redknapp achieves 4th in his 1st full season (highest they've got in 20 years). 5th the season after that. 4th in his final season but doesn't get CL on a technicality. Gets sacked.
  • AvB 5th in his 1st season, only a point off 4th. Sacked 4 months into his 2nd season with the club 7th.
  • Poch 5th in his 1st season. 3rd in his second season. 2nd in his third season. 3rd in his fourth season. 4th in his fifth season (and a CL runner up). Sacked 3 months into 6th season for having the club 14th.
  • Mourinho finishes 6th in first ~ half a season (although 4th under games he managed). Sacked 6 months into following season for having the club 6th (also got them to a cup final)
  • Nuno sacked after 3 months for having club 9th.
  • Conte gets 4th in 1st five months in charge.
Liverpool:
  • Benítez sacked after 6 years for finishing 7th and missing out on CL for the 1st time in his tenure.
  • Hogson sacked after 5 months for having club 12th.
  • Dalglish finished 6th in first ~ half a season in charge. 8th in 1st full season as well as LC winners and FA cup runners up but sacked at end of season.
  • Rodgers 7th in 1st season. 2nd, two points of the title, in his second season. 6th in his 3rd season. Sacked 8 games into the following season for having the club 8th.
  • Klopp 8th, LC runners up, EL runners up in his 1st ~ 6months in charge. 4th in his 1st full season. 4th the following season and CL runners up. 2nd the following season on 97 points and CL winner. PL winner the season after that. 3rd last season. 2nd this season on 92 points, FA Cup and LC winners, CL finalists.
Chelsea:
  • Of the 14 mangers under Abramovich every single on that has failed to achieve CL football or threatened to fail achieving CL football has been near instantly sacked. That's not even accounting for the vast majority that have been sacked for have achieved CL football but just haven't won the PL.
Man City:

  • Mansoor sacks Hughes after 4-5 months of owning the club for having them 6th.
  • Mancini finishes ~5th in first 5 months in charge (3rd on form managed under him)'
  • Literally never finish outside the top 4 again for the next 12 years.
Arsenal:
  • Wenger 20 years of consecutive top4/CL football. Finishes 5th in his 21 season, 1 point off 4th on 75 points (highest tally to not get 4th). 6th the following season gets sacked.
  • Emery 5th, 1 point off 4th, EL runner up. Sacked 13 games into his 2nd season for being 8th.
  • Arteta 8th in his 1st ~6 months (6th on form he managed) and FA cup winner. 8th following season. 5th last season. Gets new 3 year contract, countless fluff pieces, endless talk about "process" etc..

5 different PL clubs (excluding us), all our direct rivals, sample size spanning over a decade of football and in not one single example have any of these clubs allowed a "top 4/CL football project/process" to take over 1.5-2 years at MOST without sacking the manager that failed to achieve that goal. In the vast majority of cases they literally sack managers after 1 season of failing to get CL football. We're entering season 3.5 with Arteta which is already unprecedented (clubs are completing title/CL winning "projects/process" in that timeframe) but I can guarantee that a lot of people will still defend the "project/process" even if it's not achieved next season.
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
I agree, but this is what the club wants to do and for all my b*tching on an internet forum it's not changing. It is what it is.

We're not arguing about what the utter feckwits at club want to do. We're arguing about you saying that you believe he might as well stay and play it out. I'm arguing your logic not the club's. I don't expect logic from the club at all, only darts flying at a wall.
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Dusted 🔻
We're not arguing about what the utter feckwits at club want to do. We're arguing about you saying that you believe he might as well stay and play it out. I'm arguing your logic not the club's. I don't expect logic from the club at all, only darts flying at a wall.
If the club was committed to getting out some of these choir boys and pumping the same funds into the next manager then I would want Mik sacked yesterday.

Doesn't seem realistic though does it?
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
If the club was committed to getting out some of these choir boys and pumping the same funds into the next manager then I would want Mik sacked yesterday.

Doesn't seem realistic though does it?

Why not? Did you ever imagine the club giving sidekick Mick over 300M in 3 windows? No.
Stop being such a pessimist. Don't let saggytits tear off your wings. Let your imagination flutter and fly, @Macho Fly, bb, fly!
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Another bizarre thing is that people talk about this "project" and "process" but I don't think a single manager of any supposedly "big" club in this league has ever been given a multi-year project/process to achieve top 4/CL.

Manchester United:

  • Moyes- sacked after 9months for having the club 7th.
  • van Gaal- Achieved 4th in his 1st season. Wins FA Cup in 2nd seasons but has the club 5th so gets sacked.
  • Mourinho- 6th in his 1st season but wins the LC and EL thus achieving CL football. In his 2nd season he finished 2nd in the PL and runners in the FA Cup. Sacked 4 months into his 3rd season for having the club 6th.
  • Ole finished 6th in his 1st half a season. Finishes 3rd the following season and 2nd the season after that. Sacked after 3 years for having the club 7th
Sp**s:
  • Redknapp achieves 4th in his 1st full season (highest they've got in 20 years). 5th the season after that. 4th in his final season but doesn't get CL on a technicality. Gets sacked.
  • AvB 5th in his 1st season, only a point off 4th. Sacked 4 months into his 2nd season with the club 7th.
  • Poch 5th in his 1st season. 3rd in his second season. 2nd in his third season. 3rd in his fourth season. 4th in his fifth season (and a CL runner up). Sacked 3 months into 6th season for having the club 14th.
  • Mourinho finishes 6th in first ~ half a season (although 4th under games he managed). Sacked 6 months into following season for having the club 6th (also got them to a cup final)
  • Nuno sacked after 3 months for having club 9th.
  • Conte gets 4th in 1st five months in charge.
Liverpool:
  • Benítez sacked after 6 years for finishing 7th and missing out on CL for the 1st time in his tenure.
  • Hogson sacked after 5 months for having club 12th.
  • Dalglish finished 6th in first ~ half a season in charge. 8th in 1st full season as well as LC winners and FA cup runners up but sacked at end of season.
  • Rodgers 7th in 1st season. 2nd, two points of the title, in his second season. 6th in his 3rd season. Sacked 8 games into the following season for having the club 8th.
  • Klopp 8th, LC runners up, EL runners up in his 1st ~ 6months in charge. 4th in his 1st full season. 4th the following season and CL runners up. 2nd the following season on 97 points and CL winner. PL winner the season after that. 3rd last season. 2nd this season on 92 points, FA Cup and LC winners, CL finalists.
Chelsea:
  • Of the 14 mangers under Abramovich every single on that has failed to achieve CL football or threatened to fail achieving CL football has been near instantly sacked. That's not even accounting for the vast majority that have been sacked for have achieved CL football but just haven't won the PL.
Man City:

  • Mansoor sacks Hughes after 4-5 months of owning the club for having them 6th.
  • Mancini finishes ~5th in first 5 months in charge (3rd on form managed under him)'
  • Literally never finish outside the top 4 again for the next 12 years.
Arsenal:
  • Wenger 20 years of consecutive top4/CL football. Finishes 5th in his 21 season, 1 point off 4th on 75 points (highest tally to not get 4th). 6th the following season gets sacked.
  • Emery 5th, 1 point off 4th, EL runner up. Sacked 13 games into his 2nd season for being 8th.
  • Arteta 8th in his 1st ~6 months (6th on form he managed) and FA cup winner. 8th following season. 5th last season. Gets new 3 year contract, countless fluff pieces, endless talk about "process" etc..

5 different PL clubs (excluding us), all our direct rivals, sample size spanning over a decade of football and in not one single example have any of these clubs allowed a "top 4/CL football project/process" to take over 1.5-2 years at MOST without sacking the manager that failed to achieve that goal. In the vast majority of cases they literally sack managers after 1 season of failing to get CL football. We're entering season 3.5 with Arteta which is already unprecedented (clubs are completing title/CL winning "projects/process" in that timeframe) but I can guarantee that a lot of people will still defend the "project/process" even if it's not achieved next season.
Champions League football is clearly a defining target of success. This is this what p!sses me off more than anything else. Not only has no manager been given this latitude of failure in any other top six club, as you've shown, but this guy is still heavily supported by the club, and for some reason the majority of the fans. Wenger who you'd think would have something in the bank after 20 years of continuous CL, plus 9 trophies was given much less leaway by the fans . . . no, was removed by the fans in an abusive campaign . . . that started after coming 2nd. I'll never forgive that.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Because the 'fax' are an extremely limited view of the totality of the financial situation of Arsenal. If a proper analysis were carried out it would include contract lengths, wage bills, estimated sell on values, value added (or subtracted) to players over the course of his tenure. You can't quote a couple of figures and come up with a definitive answer on any question when you're dealing with an operation as big and complex as Arsenal.

So do you want him gone rn? Answer the question.
What about the points, the position in the league and @Camus 's further analysis stemming from that, even if you're fudging on the spending on players?
 

Riou

English Super Cup Enjoyer 🤗
Stan only sacked Arsène, because Ivan was pushing for it so much...if Ivan wasn't here/pushing for more power, Stan would have let Wenger see out his deal...Arsène might have even got a new contract, as with Auba and Laca in 18/19, he might have got 4th...I don't think Kroenke ever cared that much about Champions League football, tbh.

Emery was sacked, because no one really wanted him at the club anyway...he only got the job, because on one was brave enough to give it to Mikel, like Josh wanted.

The reason Arteta has been given chances, is because he's Josh's boy and Stan doesn't really care...we just aren't a top club anymore, I feel...you just have to face that.

Also...I think Redknapp was sacked, because he pissed off Levy by flirting with the England job...but for all the **** he gets, Levy is actually very good at what he does, he's always trying to improve Sp**s (even with the limitations the club has, something their fans don't seem to understand) he's like their David Dein.
 

yorch44

Established Member
Stan only sacked Arsène, because Ivan was pushing for it so much...if Ivan wasn't here/pushing for more power, Stan would have let Wenger see out his deal...Arsène might have even got a new contract, as with Auba and Laca in 18/19, he might have got 4th...I don't think Kroenke ever cared that much about Champions League football, tbh.

Emery was sacked, because no one really wanted him at the club anyway...he only got the job, because on one was brave enough to give it to Mikel, like Josh wanted.

The reason Arteta has been given chances, is because he's Josh's boy and Stan doesn't really care...we just aren't a top club anymore, I feel...you just have to face that.

Also...I think Redknapp was sacked, because he pissed off Levy by flirting with the England job...but for all the **** he gets, Levy is actually very good at what he does, he's always trying to improve Sp**s (even with the limitations the club has, something their fans don't seem to understand) he's like their David Dein.
Basically daddy Stan gifted Arsenal to his boy and the ineptitude of his kid is ruining the club. Josh is under the shadow of the dad so he wants to make his big drama/achieve history when a young manager with arsenal DNA in a very every poetic like way. Just to receive a hug from Stan. He literally get a Netflix series about it lol.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
What about the points, the position in the league and @Camus 's further analysis stemming from that, even if you're fudging on the spending on players?
I don’t think the comparison with managers you listed are fair for various reasons, although there is a lot of knowledge I’m lacking on the subject so allow that I could easily be wrong. Don’t start getting me to read other posts, make me right essays. Just answer the question, do you want him gone rn? Why is this so hard?
 

Camus

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐
Champions League football is clearly a defining target of success. This is this what p!sses me off more than anything else. Not only has no manager been given this latitude of failure in any other top six club, as you've shown, but this guy is still heavily supported by the club, and for some reason the majority of the fans. Wenger who you'd think would have something in the bank after 20 years of continuous CL, plus 9 trophies was given much less leaway by the fans . . . no, was removed by the fans in an abusive campaign . . . that started after coming 2nd. I'll never forgive that.
Something else that makes it even stranger is that of all the managers listed who like you said were given significantly less latitude for failure he's literally the only one with zero managerial experience. Like if Jose, Rafa, van Gaal, Poch etc.. have **** seasons and end up missing targets at least you could point to some kind of track record that can be used as evidence, "goodwill" etc.. The man has nothing so why this unprecedented backing?

It really amazing how he's managed to lower standards/expectations of the fans that vehemently back him. I clearly remember having a lot of discussions with fans when we were trying to hire an Emery replacement and I really wanted Ancelotti and the number 1 reason almost unanimously that people replied back to me and others that wanted him was that he wouldn't be a good appointment because he doesn't win a lot of league titles....
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
I don’t think the comparison with managers you listed are fair for various reasons, although there is a lot of knowledge I’m lacking on the subject so allow that I could easily be wrong. Don’t start getting me to read other posts, make me right essays. Just answer the question, do you want him gone rn? Why is this so hard?
Have I got this right, you’re saying the ‘comparisons with other managers are unfair for various reasons which you’re keeping to yourself because you don’t know much and could be wrong’.

I’m not used to that level of candor debating with the ‘inners’, normally it’s a long essay, a bit of passive aggression and stuff about putting me on ignore. :lol:
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Dusted 🔻
I clearly remember having a lot of discussions with fans when we were trying to hire an Emery replacement and I really wanted Ancelotti and the number 1 reason almost unanimously that people replied back to me and others that wanted him was that he wouldn't be a good appointment because he doesn't win a lot of league titles....
I wanted Ancelotti too, but ageism went against him. A lot of people wanted the new young, stylish manager with a full head of hair and McQueens trainers as they assumed the football would match.

Ancelotti might have ditched us mid project to join a giant though so it's kinda moot.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
Something else that makes it even stranger is that of all the managers listed who like you said were given significantly less latitude for failure he's literally the only one with zero managerial experience. Like if Jose, Rafa, van Gaal, Poch etc.. have **** seasons and end up missing targets at least you could point to some kind of track record that can be used as evidence, "goodwill" etc.. The man has nothing so why this unprecedented backing?

It really amazing how he's managed to lower standards/expectations of the fans that vehemently back him. I clearly remember having a lot of discussions with fans when we were trying to hire an Emery replacement and I really wanted Ancelotti and the number 1 reason almost unanimously that people replied back to me and others that wanted him was that he wouldn't be a good appointment because he doesn't win a lot of league titles....
Spot on. The ‘experience’ factor doubles down on your ‘massive latitude’ post.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
I wanted Ancelotti too, but ageism went against him. A lot of people wanted the new young, stylish manager with a full head of hair and McQueens trainers as they assumed the football would match.

Ancelotti might have ditched us mid project to join a giant though so it's kinda moot.
Wonder if he’ll win the Champions League as well as La Liga.
 

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