Mikel Arteta: Miktoria Concordia Crexit

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸
Basically daddy Stan gifted Arsenal to his boy and the ineptitude of his kid is ruining the club. Josh is under the shadow of the dad so he wants to make his big drama/achieve history when a young manager with arsenal DNA in a very every poetic like way. Just to receive a hug from Stan. He literally get a Netflix series about it lol.
You have no idea what you're even rambling about. Josh is the president of the Denver Nuggets in the NBA and Colorado Avalanche in the NHL. They are both very good teams. Colorado has been top 3 in points in their league 3 seasons in a row. Denver Nuggets have an MVP candidate year in and year out and regularly make the playoffs.

Both of these teams have been better and more consistent than Arsenal have been the past 5 years.
 

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Arteta
Trusted ⭐
Another bizarre thing is that people talk about this "project" and "process" but I don't think a single manager of any supposedly "big" club in this league has ever been given a multi-year project/process to achieve top 4/CL.

Manchester United:

  • Moyes- sacked after 9months for having the club 7th.
  • van Gaal- Achieved 4th in his 1st season. Wins FA Cup in 2nd seasons but has the club 5th so gets sacked.
  • Mourinho- 6th in his 1st season but wins the LC and EL thus achieving CL football. In his 2nd season he finished 2nd in the PL and runners in the FA Cup. Sacked 4 months into his 3rd season for having the club 6th.
  • Ole finished 6th in his 1st half a season. Finishes 3rd the following season and 2nd the season after that. Sacked after 3 years for having the club 7th
Sp**s:
  • Redknapp achieves 4th in his 1st full season (highest they've got in 20 years). 5th the season after that. 4th in his final season but doesn't get CL on a technicality. Gets sacked.
  • AvB 5th in his 1st season, only a point off 4th. Sacked 4 months into his 2nd season with the club 7th.
  • Poch 5th in his 1st season. 3rd in his second season. 2nd in his third season. 3rd in his fourth season. 4th in his fifth season (and a CL runner up). Sacked 3 months into 6th season for having the club 14th.
  • Mourinho finishes 6th in first ~ half a season (although 4th under games he managed). Sacked 6 months into following season for having the club 6th (also got them to a cup final)
  • Nuno sacked after 3 months for having club 9th.
  • Conte gets 4th in 1st five months in charge.
Liverpool:
  • Benítez sacked after 6 years for finishing 7th and missing out on CL for the 1st time in his tenure.
  • Hogson sacked after 5 months for having club 12th.
  • Dalglish finished 6th in first ~ half a season in charge. 8th in 1st full season as well as LC winners and FA cup runners up but sacked at end of season.
  • Rodgers 7th in 1st season. 2nd, two points of the title, in his second season. 6th in his 3rd season. Sacked 8 games into the following season for having the club 8th.
  • Klopp 8th, LC runners up, EL runners up in his 1st ~ 6months in charge. 4th in his 1st full season. 4th the following season and CL runners up. 2nd the following season on 97 points and CL winner. PL winner the season after that. 3rd last season. 2nd this season on 92 points, FA Cup and LC winners, CL finalists.
Chelsea:
  • Of the 14 mangers under Abramovich every single on that has failed to achieve CL football or threatened to fail achieving CL football has been near instantly sacked. That's not even accounting for the vast majority that have been sacked for have achieved CL football but just haven't won the PL.
Man City:

  • Mansoor sacks Hughes after 4-5 months of owning the club for having them 6th.
  • Mancini finishes ~5th in first 5 months in charge (3rd on form managed under him)'
  • Literally never finish outside the top 4 again for the next 12 years.
Arsenal:
  • Wenger 20 years of consecutive top4/CL football. Finishes 5th in his 21 season, 1 point off 4th on 75 points (highest tally to not get 4th). 6th the following season gets sacked.
  • Emery 5th, 1 point off 4th, EL runner up. Sacked 13 games into his 2nd season for being 8th.
  • Arteta 8th in his 1st ~6 months (6th on form he managed) and FA cup winner. 8th following season. 5th last season. Gets new 3 year contract, countless fluff pieces, endless talk about "process" etc..

5 different PL clubs (excluding us), all our direct rivals, sample size spanning over a decade of football and in not one single example have any of these clubs allowed a "top 4/CL football project/process" to take over 1.5-2 years at MOST without sacking the manager that failed to achieve that goal. In the vast majority of cases they literally sack managers after 1 season of failing to get CL football. We're entering season 3.5 with Arteta which is already unprecedented (clubs are completing title/CL winning "projects/process" in that timeframe) but I can guarantee that a lot of people will still defend the "project/process" even if it's not achieved next season.
What's that saying? The first step is giving up/accepting defeat or whatever. This post clearly demonstrates we've given up on trying to be a top english club. Seems like we're happy to be in the tier below.

It's top four (I don't care about qualifiying for CL via EL) or f*ck off next season.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Have I got this right, you’re saying the ‘comparisons with other managers are unfair for various reasons which you’re keeping to yourself because you don’t know much and could be wrong’.

I’m not used to that level of candor debating with the ‘inners’, normally it’s a long essay, a bit of passive aggression and stuff about putting me on ignore. :lol:
I'm just not prepared to write an essay when I don't even know whether you'll answer my question, which is what I was actually interested in the first place, not debating the minutiae of everything yourself and Camus have said.

Do you want him gone?
 
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Reactions: Kav

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
Facts don’t seem to matter anymore mate. Most the fan base have bought into the PR campaign.

Their response to this would be ‘but he’s changing the culture’ or ‘its a project with a young squad’

**** off.
I would not wipe my dootymaker with the loserball culture Arteta is instilling. We went from the most watchable side in the country that played CL football to being happy with “Process” and “culture”. Spanish Pulis has already tarnished the brand and polluted the DNA. I hate his process it feels like years of putting up with dull football, abject humiliation, and no big trophies so we can get more of the same. Arteta out, out now, he is fraud he isn’t even a competent manager let alone one that should manage a giant club like Arsenal.
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
I was all for sacking Tets until the last summer window happened, but too much has gone into it now where you can't sack him lightly anymore. You'd have to find a coach that sees Ben White, Ødegaard and Ramsdale as starters otherwise that's a lot of time and millions wasted.

This just has to play out, you have to be Arteta in now.

It saddens me that you, of all people, have to be on the receiving end of this...but

 

Gunner boy dd

Coronavirus Truther
:lol: I wanted Ancelotti too, but ageism went against him. A lot of people wanted the new young, stylish manager with a full head of hair and McQueens trainers as they assumed the football would match.

Ancelotti might have ditched us mid project to join a giant though so it's kinda moot.
Loool I’m in tears u kno.. I remember when the fans were w*nking over Arteta when he 1st joined because he was wearing an Armani jacket vs Bournemouth :lol: the jacket was sold out the next day ffs.

You’re spot on with your analogy though. I couldn’t care less if our next manager looks like Ian Dowie and has no swag. Too much emphasis with looks and style.
 

Idiotologue

Well-Known Member
You have no idea what you're even rambling about. Josh is the president of the Denver Nuggets in the NBA and Colorado Avalanche in the NHL. They are both very good teams. Colorado has been top 3 in points in their league 3 seasons in a row. Denver Nuggets have an MVP candidate year in and year out and regularly make the playoffs.

Both of these teams have been better and more consistent than Arsenal have been the past 5 years.
The Kroenkes are notoriously cheap as owners of the Nuggets as well though. They just allowed their GM, Tim Connelly, who is the architect of that succesful team, to leave for the Timberwolves because they refused to pay him more.
 

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸
The Kroenkes are notoriously cheap as owners of the Nuggets as well though. They just allowed their GM, Tim Connelly, who is the architect of that succesful team, to leave for the Timberwolves because they refused to pay him more.
Is it really a huge loss if you lose an employee to the Minnesota Timberwolves?
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
Is it really a huge loss if you lose an employee to the Minnesota Timberwolves?
Twolves are pretty damn good now so he must be doing something right they improved. Didn’t that guy draft Jokic? I would say yes it is a dumb move. Maybe Edu can go over to the Nuggets and trade Jokic for nothing because Jokic was late to a couple of meetings. We got the worst manager but best hall monitor in premier league, no on loiters and giggles outside the classroom under the reign of pub League Mik.
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
It is sad but Arteta really has me regretting my emotional attachment to the club. Too late for me to switch but there will be no golden days under pub league Mik and his never ending cultural reset to mediocrity

The only thing I regret is Wenger signing one of the most average journemen of football in the history of the game.

Nothing ever stood out about him except his unnaturally static hair!

As a result of that, he slowly, but surely, ingratiated himself with the manager & started working closely with him. Why the words of his peers about him being an upstart that loved himself a bit too much were dismissed out of hand, I'll never know.

He wasn't fit to represent our club back then & he still isn't now.
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
The only thing I regret is Wenger signing one of the most average journemen of football in the history of the game.

Nothing ever stood out about him except his unnaturally static hair!

As a result of that, he slowly, but surely, ingratiated himself with the manager & started working closely with him. Why the words of his peers about him being an upstart that loved himself a bit too much were dismissed out of hand, I'll never know.

He wasn't fit to represent our club back then & he still isn't now.
Even as a midfielder he was a big drop off from the Gilberto and Petit let alone Viera. He strikes me as one of these people who are good looking and talk a good game, they know how to talk eloquently about the job, but they actually have no idea on how to actually fix anything or get anything done, they talk like they should be competent but they are just a good presentation and corporate face guy, they don’t actually know how to do the job. They are a meeting star, but total garbage in actual operations
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
Another bizarre thing is that people talk about this "project" and "process" but I don't think a single manager of any supposedly "big" club in this league has ever been given a multi-year project/process to achieve top 4/CL.

Manchester United:

  • Moyes- sacked after 9months for having the club 7th.
  • van Gaal- Achieved 4th in his 1st season. Wins FA Cup in 2nd seasons but has the club 5th so gets sacked.
  • Mourinho- 6th in his 1st season but wins the LC and EL thus achieving CL football. In his 2nd season he finished 2nd in the PL and runners in the FA Cup. Sacked 4 months into his 3rd season for having the club 6th.
  • Ole finished 6th in his 1st half a season. Finishes 3rd the following season and 2nd the season after that. Sacked after 3 years for having the club 7th
Sp**s:
  • Redknapp achieves 4th in his 1st full season (highest they've got in 20 years). 5th the season after that. 4th in his final season but doesn't get CL on a technicality. Gets sacked.
  • AvB 5th in his 1st season, only a point off 4th. Sacked 4 months into his 2nd season with the club 7th.
  • Poch 5th in his 1st season. 3rd in his second season. 2nd in his third season. 3rd in his fourth season. 4th in his fifth season (and a CL runner up). Sacked 3 months into 6th season for having the club 14th.
  • Mourinho finishes 6th in first ~ half a season (although 4th under games he managed). Sacked 6 months into following season for having the club 6th (also got them to a cup final)
  • Nuno sacked after 3 months for having club 9th.
  • Conte gets 4th in 1st five months in charge.
Liverpool:
  • Benítez sacked after 6 years for finishing 7th and missing out on CL for the 1st time in his tenure.
  • Hogson sacked after 5 months for having club 12th.
  • Dalglish finished 6th in first ~ half a season in charge. 8th in 1st full season as well as LC winners and FA cup runners up but sacked at end of season.
  • Rodgers 7th in 1st season. 2nd, two points of the title, in his second season. 6th in his 3rd season. Sacked 8 games into the following season for having the club 8th.
  • Klopp 8th, LC runners up, EL runners up in his 1st ~ 6months in charge. 4th in his 1st full season. 4th the following season and CL runners up. 2nd the following season on 97 points and CL winner. PL winner the season after that. 3rd last season. 2nd this season on 92 points, FA Cup and LC winners, CL finalists.
Chelsea:
  • Of the 14 mangers under Abramovich every single on that has failed to achieve CL football or threatened to fail achieving CL football has been near instantly sacked. That's not even accounting for the vast majority that have been sacked for have achieved CL football but just haven't won the PL.
Man City:

  • Mansoor sacks Hughes after 4-5 months of owning the club for having them 6th.
  • Mancini finishes ~5th in first 5 months in charge (3rd on form managed under him)'
  • Literally never finish outside the top 4 again for the next 12 years.
Arsenal:
  • Wenger 20 years of consecutive top4/CL football. Finishes 5th in his 21 season, 1 point off 4th on 75 points (highest tally to not get 4th). 6th the following season gets sacked.
  • Emery 5th, 1 point off 4th, EL runner up. Sacked 13 games into his 2nd season for being 8th.
  • Arteta 8th in his 1st ~6 months (6th on form he managed) and FA cup winner. 8th following season. 5th last season. Gets new 3 year contract, countless fluff pieces, endless talk about "process" etc..

5 different PL clubs (excluding us), all our direct rivals, sample size spanning over a decade of football and in not one single example have any of these clubs allowed a "top 4/CL football project/process" to take over 1.5-2 years at MOST without sacking the manager that failed to achieve that goal. In the vast majority of cases they literally sack managers after 1 season of failing to get CL football. We're entering season 3.5 with Arteta which is already unprecedented (clubs are completing title/CL winning "projects/process" in that timeframe) but I can guarantee that a lot of people will still defend the "project/process" even if it's not achieved next season.

Great post. Should be pinned at the top of every page of this thread.
 

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸
Twolves are pretty damn good now so he must be doing something right they improved.
They just hired this guy on May 23rd, 2022. What are you even on about? Nuggets were still better while missing their 2nd best player.

Nuggets missed the playoffs every season this guy was their GM. When he finally stepped aside as GM to be president of operations, they started making the playoffs.
 

Jayramfootball

Active Member
Another bizarre thing is that people talk about this "project" and "process" but I don't think a single manager of any supposedly "big" club in this league has ever been given a multi-year project/process to achieve top 4/CL.

Manchester United:

  • Moyes- sacked after 9months for having the club 7th.
  • van Gaal- Achieved 4th in his 1st season. Wins FA Cup in 2nd seasons but has the club 5th so gets sacked.
  • Mourinho- 6th in his 1st season but wins the LC and EL thus achieving CL football. In his 2nd season he finished 2nd in the PL and runners in the FA Cup. Sacked 4 months into his 3rd season for having the club 6th.
  • Ole finished 6th in his 1st half a season. Finishes 3rd the following season and 2nd the season after that. Sacked after 3 years for having the club 7th
Sp**s:
  • Redknapp achieves 4th in his 1st full season (highest they've got in 20 years). 5th the season after that. 4th in his final season but doesn't get CL on a technicality. Gets sacked.
  • AvB 5th in his 1st season, only a point off 4th. Sacked 4 months into his 2nd season with the club 7th.
  • Poch 5th in his 1st season. 3rd in his second season. 2nd in his third season. 3rd in his fourth season. 4th in his fifth season (and a CL runner up). Sacked 3 months into 6th season for having the club 14th.
  • Mourinho finishes 6th in first ~ half a season (although 4th under games he managed). Sacked 6 months into following season for having the club 6th (also got them to a cup final)
  • Nuno sacked after 3 months for having club 9th.
  • Conte gets 4th in 1st five months in charge.
Liverpool:
  • Benítez sacked after 6 years for finishing 7th and missing out on CL for the 1st time in his tenure.
  • Hogson sacked after 5 months for having club 12th.
  • Dalglish finished 6th in first ~ half a season in charge. 8th in 1st full season as well as LC winners and FA cup runners up but sacked at end of season.
  • Rodgers 7th in 1st season. 2nd, two points of the title, in his second season. 6th in his 3rd season. Sacked 8 games into the following season for having the club 8th.
  • Klopp 8th, LC runners up, EL runners up in his 1st ~ 6months in charge. 4th in his 1st full season. 4th the following season and CL runners up. 2nd the following season on 97 points and CL winner. PL winner the season after that. 3rd last season. 2nd this season on 92 points, FA Cup and LC winners, CL finalists.
Chelsea:
  • Of the 14 mangers under Abramovich every single on that has failed to achieve CL football or threatened to fail achieving CL football has been near instantly sacked. That's not even accounting for the vast majority that have been sacked for have achieved CL football but just haven't won the PL.
Man City:

  • Mansoor sacks Hughes after 4-5 months of owning the club for having them 6th.
  • Mancini finishes ~5th in first 5 months in charge (3rd on form managed under him)'
  • Literally never finish outside the top 4 again for the next 12 years.
Arsenal:
  • Wenger 20 years of consecutive top4/CL football. Finishes 5th in his 21 season, 1 point off 4th on 75 points (highest tally to not get 4th). 6th the following season gets sacked.
  • Emery 5th, 1 point off 4th, EL runner up. Sacked 13 games into his 2nd season for being 8th.
  • Arteta 8th in his 1st ~6 months (6th on form he managed) and FA cup winner. 8th following season. 5th last season. Gets new 3 year contract, countless fluff pieces, endless talk about "process" etc..

5 different PL clubs (excluding us), all our direct rivals, sample size spanning over a decade of football and in not one single example have any of these clubs allowed a "top 4/CL football project/process" to take over 1.5-2 years at MOST without sacking the manager that failed to achieve that goal. In the vast majority of cases they literally sack managers after 1 season of failing to get CL football. We're entering season 3.5 with Arteta which is already unprecedented (clubs are completing title/CL winning "projects/process" in that timeframe) but I can guarantee that a lot of people will still defend the "project/process" even if it's not achieved next season.
Fair post TBH.

The reason reason that I think the club (and some fans like me) are not turning on Arteta is that there is an acceptance that things needed significant change if we were to get back to being a club that could seriously challenge the top spot in the PL - and it would take time.
I am pretty sure a lot of managers could have kept us hovering around 4th-6th as Wenger did in his last 2 years and Emery did in his first season. But, I don't think there was ever a chance we were going to get close to the top spot with the direction we were headed. That's an opinion, of course, though I've never seen a case bing made that the squad we had at the end of the 2018 season was on the up.

So the club, rightly or wrongly , decided to hit the reset button.
You either accept that or you don't - both POVs are ok, but it is what it is.
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
They just hired this guy on May 23rd, 2022. What are you even on about? Nuggets were still better while missing their 2nd best player.

Nuggets missed the playoffs every season this guy was their GM. When he finally stepped aside as GM to be president of operations, they started making the playoffs.
Honestly do t care much about Nuggets, Arsenal are my team after re upping Arteta now all of his f…ups are on the board and ownership. It is why I try not to bang on Xhaka, the man isn’t the one who picks the team sheet s as nf he fights as hard as his limited skills allow. After the extension it is right for the critics to lay this on Kroenke leadership
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐
I'm just not prepared to write an essay when I don't even know whether you'll answer my question, which is what I was actually interested in the first place, not debating the minutiae of everything yourself and Camus have said.

Do you want him gone?
I’d swap him for Potter in a heartbeat, but he’s just got an extension, so we’re all Arteta in now. There’s no choice.
 

Camus

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐
Fair post TBH.

The reason reason that I think the club (and some fans like me) are not turning on Arteta is that there is an acceptance that things needed significant change if we were to get back to being a club that could seriously challenge the top spot in the PL - and it would take time.
I am pretty sure a lot of managers could have kept us hovering around 4th-6th as Wenger did in his last 2 years and Emery did in his first season. But, I don't think there was ever a chance we were going to get close to the top spot with the direction we were headed. That's an opinion, of course, though I've never seen a case bing made that the squad we had at the end of the 2018 season was on the up.

So the club, rightly or wrongly , decided to hit the reset button.
You either accept that or you don't - both POVs are ok, but it is what it is.
Yeah I understand the reason people give for their continued patience, that they've bought into the "process/project". In general I'm not against it, I'm not against a complete reset. It's makes total sense.

What I'm pointing out is that no "process/project" by a comparable rival has ever taken this long or been afforded this much leeway. Liverpool, Sp**s, United and Chelsea have all undergone similar resets in the past and they've all attained success much quicker than us and none of them have had to put up with prolonged underachievement for the sake of it for as long as we currently are.

Do you think our situation in 2019 when Emery got sacked was worse than Liverpool under Hodgson in 2011? No chance imo. We were a million miles better. Yet they continually sacked managers during their "reset/process/project" until the found on one that managed to attain top 4/CL quickly and consistently. They didn't turn around and tell Dalglish, their biggest club legend, you can have a free hit at 3-4 years to get us 4th. Lol, no chance. Out the door after 1 full season and that's despite winning a trophy.

Same with Rodgers who got them to within a whisker of the title. A poor proceeding season and he was out the door within 8 games of the next one. No messing about, no "lets give him the rest of the season he almost won us the PL" etc.. Can you imagine if Arteta got us to within 2 points of the PL title? He's gotten us to within 2 points of 4th and we've given him a new 3 year deal and some of his supporters are ready to lynch anyone that suggest he should be sacked. If he got us that close to the title we'd probably give him a life time contract and my house would get petrol bombed if I even so much as failed to capitalise his name.

Sp**s aren't even historically a top 4 team and yet they show far higher standards than us in their pursuit of it. Never mind Poch who they're indebted to, Mourinho had an slightly superior PL record to Arteta during his time at the club yet he was deemed not good enough. Why should it be good enough for us? United are a bigger shambles than us, have undergone about 100 resets but once again they don't allow managers to go 1 full season without CL football. Everyone is saying ten Hag will be given time, that it's a complete culture change etc.. etc...etc.. all that usual BS, but I'm supremely confident that if he finished 8th next season there's an extremely high chance he'd be sacked. If he finished 8th then followed it up with 5th/no CL football then 1000% he'd be sacked.

Top clubs simply do not afford this level of unstrained failure to achieve top 4. The level of clubs that would afford a manager 3-4 years just to attain top 4/CL are the likes of Leicester, West Ham, Everton. And even then all they sacked managers that bought them relative success (or outright success in the case of Leicester) as soon as they had them floating around the bottom of the table. We persisted with Arteta when he did that.

It's not really aimed at you mate since you've said that you think the opposing POV is ok. It's more aimed at the fans that think everyone critical of Arteta is unreasonably impatient, toxic, a clown etc..
 

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