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Mikel Arteta: Miktoria Concordia Crexit

BergMan

Active Member
Fanbase was truly too toxic towards Wenger. Disgraceful behaviour towards the man that stands for pure and beautiful football. Embarrassing fanbase honestly.

Every great human makes errors and Wenger is human, his last 2 seasons and recruitment were abysmal but he had carried the whole Arsenal on his back for how many years? Some fans are just braindead and forget that, too spoiled I guess.

Toxic towards Wenger, towards Ramsey and towards Xhaka. A fanbase that loved a scapegoat. AFTV and those associated with them helped build that toxicity.
 

Xln

Xhaka 🔛, Telly 🔨 (formerly Xillin)
Toxic towards Wenger, towards Ramsey and towards Xhaka. A fanbase that loved a scapegoat. AFTV and those associated with them helped build that toxicity.
What did Xhaka do here for us anyway? He should thank all the Gods that exist on this planet that he is able to play for a club like Arsenal. It's way beyond his level, our club is gargantuan compared to this little turd on the floor.
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
Minimum objective is top4. Simple.
A more ambitious club would be gunning for 3rd place. But we're being told 5th is a "major achievement".
Minimum for what? Keep seeing that term used but genuinely unsure what for, Arteta has underperformed for two years now, for anyone to change their mind on him he'd have to massively exceed realistic expectations to make up for the time lost.

If he wins the league and EL I'll change my mind on him staying.
 

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸
If he wins the league
How are you still a fan with these expectations? We haven't won the league since I've been a fan and then you'd have to go back 6 more years until we won. Our Premier League trophy drought is old enough to drink at this point. This agenda isn't based in reality.
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
How are you still a fan with these expectations? We haven't won the league since I've been a fan and then you'd have to go back 6 more years until we won. Our Premier League trophy drought is old enough to drink at this point. This agenda isn't based in reality.
Did you read anything except for the part you quoted?
 

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸
Did you read anything except for the part you quoted?
I did and you didn't make any sense. You would be on board with a manager finishing no better than top 4 until he underperforms in your eyes and then he must win the league and a European trophy. Why haven't you had these expectations for the past 18 years?
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
I did and you didn't make any sense. You would be on board with a manager finishing no better than top 4 until he underperforms in your eyes and then he must win the league and a European trophy. Why haven't you had these expectations for the past 18 years?
Some cheek to talk about not making sense then follow it up with this car crash of a post.

Either you're being disingenuous or your reading ability is in the gutter. Maybe finish high school first before you try to have a conversation with me.
 

Fallout

Active Member
See a lot of posts re: worshipping Arteta, cult behavior, comparisons with Wenger, etc.

In my opinion these are totally sensationalized / over the top.

I don't think there's a logical inconsistency between being Wenger-out during his final years and Arteta-in today. The commonality is trend.

Wenger's trend was a very gradual downward dip (from a high peak).

Arteta's trend since taking over from Emery is a gradual up (albeit from a very low base and with the benefit of money -- nobody is disputing these facts).

Therefore the onus is on Arteta to continue to trend up, especially given the money it seems we will be spending this summer.

If he doesn't manage that, I'd wager a lot of Arteta-ins quickly convert to out, and then it becomes a case of fanbase vs. the board ala Wenger's final seasons.

This concept of worshipping Arteta like some kind of God is just stupid. People are fans of the club and they judge its managers according to whatever rubric they find most relevant.
 

Sanchez11

Fs, I'm a superior journalist to Charles Watts
So are we going to see boom and bust again or is he going to turn of those losses into draws?
 

Trilly

Survived Aubamazette And Lived To Talk About It
Trusted ⭐
See a lot of posts re: worshipping Arteta, cult behavior, comparisons with Wenger, etc.

In my opinion these are totally sensationalized / over the top.

I don't think there's a logical inconsistency between being Wenger-out during his final years and Arteta-in today. The commonality is trend.

Wenger's trend was a very gradual downward dip (from a high peak).

Arteta's trend since taking over from Emery is a gradual up (albeit from a very low base and with the benefit of money -- nobody is disputing these facts).

Therefore the onus is on Arteta to continue to trend up, especially given the money it seems we will be spending this summer.

If he doesn't manage that, I'd wager a lot of Arteta-ins quickly convert to out, and then it becomes a case of fanbase vs. the board ala Wenger's final seasons.

This concept of worshipping Arteta like some kind of God is just stupid. People are fans of the club and they judge its managers according to whatever rubric they find most relevant.
Your take is logical but you only need to look online to see that there are definitely fans who worship Arteta, blame the players for any bad results and genuinely believe he’s the next coming of Pep.
 

BergMan

Active Member
What did Xhaka do here for us anyway? He should thank all the Gods that exist on this planet that he is able to play for a club like Arsenal. It's way beyond his level, our club is gargantuan compared to this little turd on the floor.

Aside from being a quality midfielder giving his best for the club and its fans?
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
Minimum for what? Keep seeing that term used but genuinely unsure what for, Arteta has underperformed for two years now, for anyone to change their mind on him he'd have to massively exceed realistic expectations to make up for the time lost.

How did he underperform this season? Genuinely asking for specific reasons here. Most people would've taken 5th at the start of the season if asked, and he got it with the youngest squad in the league.

I know the end of season run was poor, but if you take a step back it makes sense that such a young team would struggle under the pressure, not to mention the team you lost out on CL footy to fields two world class forwards which just gives you points even if you play like ****.

There's 4 team in the league right now significantly outspending you, so I don't see how getting 4th next season wouldn't be a great achievement. It's a shame you didn't get it this season but again, you barely lost out to a team pretty close to the level you're at but with actual world class players up top.

I do think there needs to be big improvement in the overall quality of play next season though FWIW when you have the ball, it's too uninspired at times so we'll see how investment in the gaping hole that is CF for you shakes out.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator
Personally I’m confident we will be back in the mix for a top four spot. If this rookie could run world class Tuchel and Conte so close with a bunch of kids.. then I think we are onto something. So let see how it goes.

As for excuses and ultimatums, if this doesn’t happen then that, I don’t think that’s necessary. A season is a long time and many things happen over it which influences things. Injuries, one off game performances, and others which have an impact on outcomes can mask the overall performance over that season.

Look at Klopp and Pep for example, both have hopeless records in finals or latter stages in competitions they are competing for and expected to win. No talk about ultimatums and excuses there.

We have had some disappointments yes, but overall we are rebuilding well, and it’s a matter of time before we start to hit that consistency we all want. And similarly it is the lack of progress and decline in performance trends that would get Mikel sacked.
 
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boonthegoon

Arteta In by November
Happy with how the transfer window is shaping up. If all the expected transfers are completed, he definitely has to get top 4 and a deep europa run. No two ways about it.
 

jones

Not German FFS
Trusted ⭐
How did he underperform this season? Genuinely asking for specific reasons here. Most people would've taken 5th at the start of the season if asked, and he got it with the youngest squad in the league.

I know the end of season run was poor, but if you take a step back it makes sense that such a young team would struggle under the pressure, not to mention the team you lost out on CL footy to fields two world class forwards which just gives you points even if you play like ****.

There's 4 team in the league right now significantly outspending you, so I don't see how getting 4th next season wouldn't be a great achievement. It's a shame you didn't get it this season but again, you barely lost out to a team pretty close to the level you're at but with actual world class players up top.

I do think there needs to be big improvement in the overall quality of play next season though FWIW when you have the ball, it's too uninspired at times so we'll see how investment in the gaping hole that is CF for you shakes out.
I wouldn't have taken 5th at the start of the season. There's a difference between predictions and expectations, I didn't predict 4th at the start of the season because Arteta is a very poor manager unable to put together a consistently good attack. Looking just at the talent level of our squad and that of our rivals it was absolutely within reach, taking into account how we lost a nine point lead at some point it's unforgivable.

If you take a step back you'll find that this "young" team is one of the most expensive sides put together in all of Europe. Youth would be an excuse if Arteta had to scramble together a team with academy players and reserves, it would also be an excuse if we were hit with a transfer ban. How is it an excuse when he's been given free reign to buy whoever he wants and he chooses to buy mostly inexperienced players, when the experienced (and actually talented) ones he has are either shunned or gifted away?

There's not a single team in the league "right now" that's outspending us, I don't know how this is repeated when it should be well known by now that we spent more than anyone on the planet last summer. We've been deep in the red for a couple of years now every summer spending money we haven't generated via table or European results so that's no excuse.

Not having the Kane and Son argument either, the rest of their team is not even remotely on our level. They're playing workhorses everywhere, have no midfield to speak of, their defence is held together by a new signing who's still erratic, Lloris is still dodgy, and both Kane and Son were dogshit for four months until Conte came in. They played 55 games to our 45, they went through a managerial change midseason, we lost more than a third of all league games and you still want to make excuses for how we weren't expected to get 4th ahead of them. Despite all of the calamitous showings last season we only had to win away at Newcastle, a team with nothing to play for, and put in a top 3 worst showing under Arteta so far.

CF isn't our problem, the manager is. How do people watch this shower of ****e and think a signing is going to fix the stasis in our attack? Other teams get fluid attacking football going with players a lot worse, only with Arteta the fact we've score 55, 56 and 61 in three domestic seasons it's Laca being fat, Auba being late or some other nonsense at fault.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
I wouldn't have taken 5th at the start of the season. There's a difference between predictions and expectations, I didn't predict 4th at the start of the season because Arteta is a very poor manager unable to put together a consistently good attack. Looking just at the talent level of our squad and that of our rivals it was absolutely within reach, taking into account how we lost a nine point lead at some point it's unforgivable.

If you take a step back you'll find that this "young" team is one of the most expensive sides put together in all of Europe. Youth would be an excuse if Arteta had to scramble together a team with academy players and reserves, it would also be an excuse if we were hit with a transfer ban. How is it an excuse when he's been given free reign to buy whoever he wants and he chooses to buy mostly inexperienced players, when the experienced (and actually talented) ones he has are either shunned or gifted away?

There's not a single team in the league "right now" that's outspending us, I don't know how this is repeated when it should be well known by now that we spent more than anyone on the planet last summer. We've been deep in the red for a couple of years now every summer spending money we haven't generated via table or European results so that's no excuse.

Not having the Kane and Son argument either, the rest of their team is not even remotely on our level. They're playing workhorses everywhere, have no midfield to speak of, their defence is held together by a new signing who's still erratic, Lloris is still dodgy, and both Kane and Son were dogshit for four months until Conte came in. They played 55 games to our 45, they went through a managerial change midseason, we lost more than a third of all league games and you still want to make excuses for how we weren't expected to get 4th ahead of them. Despite all of the calamitous showings last season we only had to win away at Newcastle, a team with nothing to play for, and put in a top 3 worst showing under Arteta so far.

CF isn't our problem, the manager is. How do people watch this shower of ****e and think a signing is going to fix the stasis in our attack? Other teams get fluid attacking football going with players a lot worse, only with Arteta the fact we've score 55, 56 and 61 in three domestic seasons it's Laca being fat, Auba being late or some other nonsense at fault.

I think we're just miles apart on how we rate both your squad and the teams around/below you tbh. I think Tottenham have a better central midfield than you (exacerbated by fitness issues) as I really rate Højbjerg, Skipp and Bentancur, and they're on a different planet with their attacking options. I think you're better at the back though.

I'm honestly a bit tired of the finances debate. When people simply won't acknowledge the full picture and just keep shouting about transfer fees, I don't know what to say. Yes, you've invested heavily, but your wage bill is still MILES behind the top teams and the money you have invested have been invested in the prospect of future development, not the here and now. With some of the arguments on here you'd think you brought in world class players, but we all know the investment have been made with the idea that they develop into players that will end up being more valuable than the fee in the long run. I just can't argue anything on good faith when people won't recognize the actual finances involved here. You're still literally 30% or so behind in wage budget to the top 4 clubs (Man Utd included here), and people should know just how much that is.

You're basically overpaying in fees for the potential of developing world class talent on acceptable wages, while the 4 clubs above you in spending are just outright signing world class players. You sign Ben White, Man Utd sign Varane etc.

As I've said before in this thread, what's important with Arteta is seeing gradual improvement as that is the tools he's been given by the investment in youth. To me, getting 5th this year was gradual improvement. Next season, the football needs to improve. If it doesn't, that's when I'll start worrying.

But expecting top 4 when that is nowhere near the expected outcome given the tools at his/Arsenal's disposal just seem ****ing weird to me. Last season was definitely a missed chance, I'll give you that, but it also just highlights how you're basically "Man Utd getting their **** in order" away from probably not sniffing top 4 until one of the other 3 clubs **** the bed.
 

Arsenal Quotes

Arteta is the leader, the boss, even the boss of the club. Since he arrived, a lot of things have changed, including everyone’s mentality. It’s all because of him

Alexandre Lacazette, 2022

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