Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[SA Gunner]

Please don’t give them any talking points. I can see it now West ham is in top 4 right now, we can’t beat them!

It would piss me off if anyone made this argument. Just have a go. Try. Stop this boring, mechanical way of playing and attack.

We have decent players but it seems they are afraid to show how good they are and I don’t understand why. West ham is playing much better than us when they attack but I don’t think they have a better team or squad. Antonio, Rice Soucek and Zouma would get into our first team but aside from those players we are better man for man. Bowen is playing well though.

Go and find a poster on this forum who would blindly support anything and everything that Arteta does, and continuously make excuses for him? And that goes for you too @Oxeki.

I only count @hairspray and @al-Ustaadh and they aren’t here anymore.

It’s time you both and others like you put your bullshit aside and respect the views of those who are open to giving a more balanced approached to our dealings on the field.

Because if anyone is starting to look like a shill or shills… it’s you who want to make everything hopeless, are nowhere to be found when the boys actually do good and have the loudest mouths when we suffer a loss or humiliating draw. I’d even bet some of you secretly want us to continuously lose as well FFS.

It’s time to grow up.

 

[Makingtrax]

Look at the players we bought though? They are all modern type players and most managers would be happy with them.

So much wrong with this post, what is a 'modern player', you've just made that up. Mo Salah 29, Gundogan 31 are they not modern players. They ran rings around Arteta's defence.

They aren’t specifically for Mikel, their young players who hold value and have high potential, Mikel facilitated that.

Some of those players that Mikel brought are already losing value. White is £36m according to Transfermarkt. The ones that are really made/making money are ones from the academy ESR, Willock, Saka, Nketiah, here before Arteta came.

Had we gone for experience I doubt we’d be playing more exciting football or be better off on points.

You forget he did go for experience Willian, Luiz, Cedric, Mari . . was our football any worse?

These players aren’t bought just so Mikel has more time, that’s my opinion.

Why did he switch from plan A then, buying older players?

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Is Ødegaard a "modern player" swear there's been guys like him about for decades. He's literally a throwback number 10.

White and Ramsdale I sort of get, but ball-playing defenders have been a thing for a while. Other than that "modern players" I don't really understand that at all. Most footballers around these days are modern players.

 

[OnlyOne]

So much wrong with this post, what is a 'modern player', you've just made that up. Mo Salah 29, Gundogan 31 are they not modern players. They ran rings around Arteta's defence.

Some of those players that Mikel brought are already losing value. White is £36m according to Transfermarkt. The ones that are really made/making money are ones from the academy ESR, Willock, Saka, Nketiah, here before Arteta came.

You forget he did go for experience Willian, Luiz, Cedric, Mari . . was our football any worse?

Why did he switch from plan A then, buying older players?

1. I am talking about defenders all the players we have bought are ball-playing defenders & all the top teams have these, see City/Liverpool and the rest. We are yet to buy attackers under Mikel... 'modern' players isn't a made-up term, everyone talks about how much football has changed and with that so has how players are used, i.e playing out from the back.

2. I won't take anyone seriously who uses Transfermarkt. That being said White's value will be hard to move but that doesn't mean it won't, he's 23 and we all know CB's don't peak till late. Also, why have you forgotten Taveres, Lokonga & Ramsdale? I never said the others don't have value, I said we needed to add value this window, which we have. I am not defending Mikel here so players losing value because of him doesn't change the fact with their age/potential they could still easily be worth much more than we paid if another manager gets more out of them.

3. Yes, I said what we have done this year is exactly what we should have done last year, that being said, the money wasn't there across football to rebuild as we have we slowly been getting these players out since he joined. The reason for the switch between old/young is that there has been much more scope to make these changes than there has been since COVID.

If you think a football club owner would spend 150M so he can give his manager an excuse to give to fans so he can stay on longer bewilders me, I can't think of what benefit this would give them?

 

[OnlyOne]

I'll never post something that long again.

 

[The_Playmaker]

The way we play isnt Artetas responsibility according to this Liverpool fan.

He doesn't want the team to drop off. However, it is obvious it keeps happening, even when we have won games.

To me it is a personnel issue. We have one attacker who can consistently take the ball under pressure, turn, hold off the man and drive. Saka is literally the only one. It is why he is our best player. On top of that, we have NO players who can consistently receive the ball back to goal in the air and on the ground. We don't have that player.

So when we struggle to get out, I don't put it down to the players who are trying to pass the ball out the back. I put it down to players not being able to receive it. It leads to us just kicking it long and losing the ball wave after wave.

We cannot exit through a central area. The ball doesn't stick there. We have no phase two build up. Yet he persists with Ødegaard and Auba as a duo. I would play Ødegaard from the right and move Saka to the 10. Ødegaard plays on the right for the national team. He would have the touchline behind him when receiving the ball. Saka is better at receiving it and driving and can also run beyond.

It also puts him closer to ESR and if we really went for it we could stick Martinelli up top.

--------------Martinelli----Saka
ESR----------------------------------------Ødegaard

We can talk about the older players till we are blue in the face, but when you look at end product, those four players are the most likely players who will be able to score and assist. Why not play them all?

 

[OnlyOne]

Is Ødegaard a "modern player" swear there's been guys like him about for decades. He's literally a throwback number 10.

White and Ramsdale I sort of get, but ball-playing defenders have been a thing for a while. Other than that "modern players" I don't really understand that at all. Most footballers around these days are modern players.

Call it what you want, but they are players that can fit a style that top teams want to play. Ødegaard was brought in because of the price and likely depth of that kind of player.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Call it what you want, but they are players that can fit a style that top teams want to play. Ødegaard was brought in because of the price and likely depth of that kind of player.

But most players around these days fall into that category.

And what about someone like Saliba? He has all the attributes to fit into that style yet Holding a more traditional CB was favoured ahead of him last year. Also Mari, Willian, Cedric, these are neither young or very modern maybe you could argue Willian is. This is the issue, this strategy wasn't in place a year ago it seems like something they just decided upon last summer.

 

[Makingtrax]

Go and find a poster on this forum who would blindly support anything and everything that Arteta does, and continuously make excuses for him? And that goes for you too @Oxeki.

I only count @hairspray and @al-Ustaadh and they aren’t here anymore.

It’s time you both and others like you put your bullshit aside and respect the views of those who are open to giving a more balanced approached to our dealings on the field.

Because if anyone is starting to look like a shill or shills… it’s you who want to make everything hopeless, are nowhere to be found when the boys actually do good and have the loudest mouths when we suffer a loss or humiliating draw. I’d even bet some of you secretly want us to continuously lose as well FFS.

It’s time to grow up.

There are two types of posters on here agenda posters and stats based posters. Wengers stats were fantastic when I joined in 2015 and yet the moaning on here was suffocating. I posted thread after thread about his attacking and defensive stats, bext xG for, best xG against, most clean sheets, second fewest goals, his low spend for league position etc but got mocked mercilessly because of the social media PR against him.

Today, it's just the same, Arteta's stats are all mid table, the football on the pitch is dull but the social media PR is all about this new wonder manager clearing up Wenger's mess. And there's plenty of posters on here supporting this, not just Hairspray and @al-Ustaadh, making up excuses about how much harder the league is now, showing stats for just specific dates.

The bottom line here is that everyone wants Arsenal to be top 4 again, no one wants to blame the players, but the Wenger divide is still clearly with us and affecting agendas. The most vehement '**** off Arsène' posters will back any new manager to the hilt however badly they do. Arteta more so than Unai for some strange reason.

 

[OnlyOne]

But most players around these days fall into that category.

And what about someone like Saliba? He has all the attributes to fit into that style yet Holding a more traditional CB was favoured ahead of him last year. Also Mari, Willian, Cedric, these are neither young or very modern maybe you could argue Willian is. This is the issue, this strategy wasn't in place a year ago it seems like something they just decided upon last summer.

We've been over why these players were signed and at the time as well we had a completely different board structure with Raul calling the shots.

Just because the strategy has changed, doesn't mean it's changed 'just to give Mikel an excuse' that is what I am saying. These players weren't signed to protect Mikel, these players were signed to try and help future proof the club and it's something we should have looked at doing years ago. On Saliba, the last we heard was he's absolutely in the plans for next year, and if he is sold then Mikel just doesn't rate him so there's nothing we can do about that.

 

[SA Gunner]

Look at the players we bought though? They are all modern type players and most managers would be happy with them.

They aren’t specifically for Mikel, their young players who hold value and have high potential, Mikel facilitated that.

Had we gone for experience I doubt we’d be playing more exciting football or be better off on points.

These players aren’t bought just so Mikel has more time, that’s my opinion.

Its definitely not the only reason they were brought in. Yes, Mikel benefits by being given time, but these acquisitions we have made really puts us in a good position in the medium to hopefully long term.

What is important is that the club continues to build in this vein, whether Mikel is there or not.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Should have just signed that fraud James Rodriguez + Carlo Ancelotti. His 3 month period before that injury was much better than anything we’ve seen of Ødegaard.

Casper epitomises our stiff and robotic Arteta-ball.

 

[OnlyOne]

Its definitely not the only reason they were brought in. Yes, Mikel benefits by being given time, but these acquisitions we have made really puts us in a good position in the medium to hopefully long term.

What is important is that the club continues to build in this vein, whether Mikel is there or not.

That's exactly it. Regardless if Mikel stays or go, the players signed have given us a great foundation to build upon, not to protect Mikel.

And reading around I don't think it gives Mikel as much time as people have made out.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Nacho was a class act.

One of my favourite players of the Emirates era.

 

[SA Gunner]

There are two types of posters on here agenda posters and stats based posters. Wengers stats were fantastic when I joined in 2015 and yet the moaning on here was suffocating. I posted thread after thread about his attacking and defensive stats, bext xG for, best xG against, most clean sheets, second fewest goals, his low soend etc but got mocked mercilessly because of the social media PR against him.

Today, it's just the same, Arteta's stats are all mid table, the football on the pitch is dull but the social media PR is all about this new wonder manager clearing up Wenger's mess. And there's plenty of posters on here supporting this, not just Hairspray and @al-Ustaadh, making up excuses about how much harder the league is now, showing stats for just specific dates.

The bottom line here is that everyone wants Arsenal to be top 4 again, no one wants to blame the players, but the Wenger divide is still clearly with us and affecting agendas. The most vehement '**** off Arsène' posters will back any new manager to the hilt however badly they do. Arteta more so than Unai for some strange reason.

I think, in addition to the two categories you have stated is there a third category. I would call those folks realists.

Lets start with your bottom line, a point where we are all on the same page. We want Arsenal to get back into the top four and work our way back to being an elite side again. The differences of course come in with how we see Arsenal getting there, and its where our groupings come in.

We understand the two categories you've stated, so I would focus on the third one. Realists, understand the cards that we have been dealt. The club is going to back Mikel until there is no other option but to dump him. The club have either seen something behind the scenes themselves that give them the belief, or are too proud to admit we have failed again and will force the issue. Now it would be up to that realist to give you their view as to what they think, and that would determine their posting.

As for the other groups, stat merchants (another agenda gang to be honest) and the agenda merchants. Its either they think that their posting on here is going to somehow force the change that we saw with Arsène (highly highly doubt that would happen), or they do not want to be wrong, and will hold their position until the end.

I've said this before, and its really simple. Its completely possible, and very credible, to hold multiple positions on the manager and club at the same time. Having a fluid approach to our situation is credible because the situation of sport is fluid. One day we are celebrating a edgy win against Leicester, the next we are throwing it away at Old Trafford. More of those days are on the horizon, that I can promise you.

You lose credibility when you decide to die for one position.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

One of my favourite players of the Emirates era.

The man had more grit in him than the current team 7 times over. Wouldn't have looked out of place under Wenger during 1996-2006.

He was a proper warrior.

 

[Rasmi]

1. I am talking about defenders all the players we have bought are ball-playing defenders & all the top teams have these, see City/Liverpool and the rest. We are yet to buy attackers under Mikel... 'modern' players isn't a made-up term, everyone talks about how much football has changed and with that so has how players are used, i.e playing out from the back.

2. I won't take anyone seriously who uses Transfermarkt. That being said White's value will be hard to move but that doesn't mean it won't, he's 23 and we all know CB's don't peak till late. Also, why have you forgotten Taveres, Lokonga & Ramsdale? I never said the others don't have value, I said we needed to add value this window, which we have. I am not defending Mikel here so players losing value because of him doesn't change the fact with their age/potential they could still easily be worth much more than we paid if another manager gets more out of them.

3. Yes, I said what we have done this year is exactly what we should have done last year, that being said, the money wasn't there across football to rebuild as we have we slowly been getting these players out since he joined. The reason for the switch between old/young is that there has been much more scope to make these changes than there has been since COVID.

If you think a football club owner would spend 150M so he can give his manager an excuse to give to fans so he can stay on longer bewilders me, I can't think of what benefit this would give them?

All the top teams have good defenders who happens to be good on the ball. Key word being good defenders

 

[CaseUteinberger]

There are two types of posters on here agenda posters and stats based posters. Wengers stats were fantastic when I joined in 2015 and yet the moaning on here was suffocating. I posted thread after thread about his attacking and defensive stats, bext xG for, best xG against, most clean sheets, second fewest goals, his low spend for league position etc but got mocked mercilessly because of the social media PR against him.

Today, it's just the same, Arteta's stats are all mid table, the football on the pitch is dull but the social media PR is all about this new wonder manager clearing up Wenger's mess. And there's plenty of posters on here supporting this, not just Hairspray and @al-Ustaadh, making up excuses about how much harder the league is now, showing stats for just specific dates.

The bottom line here is that everyone wants Arsenal to be top 4 again, no one wants to blame the players, but the Wenger divide is still clearly with us and affecting agendas. The most vehement '**** off Arsène' posters will back any new manager to the hilt however badly they do. Arteta more so than Unai for some strange reason.

Not sure what right you have to criticize anyone on this topic. Feel that you yourself are one of the most agenda driven posters around. Your posts always come with one basic premise, namely that the argument must glorify Wenger. You also use selective stats, like always mentioning our 2nd place finish with Wenger while always leaving out the fact that we regressed over the last two seasons under him to 5th and 6th.

 

[Makingtrax]

I think, in addition to the two categories you have stated is there a third category. I would call those folks realists.

Lets start with your bottom line, a point where we are all on the same page. We want Arsenal to get back into the top four and work our way back to being an elite side again. The differences of course come in with how we see Arsenal getting there, and its where our groupings come in.

We understand the two categories you've stated, so I would focus on the third one. Realists, understand the cards that we have been dealt. The club is going to back Mikel until there is no other option but to dump him. The club have either seen something behind the scenes themselves that give them the belief, or are too proud to admit we have failed again and will force the issue. Now it would be up to that realist to give you their view as to what they think, and that would determine their posting.

As for the other groups, stat merchants (another agenda gang to be honest) and the agenda merchants. Its either they think that their posting on here is going to somehow force the change that we saw with Arsène (highly highly doubt that would happen), or they do not want to be wrong, and will hold their position until the end.

I've said this before, and its really simple. Its completely possible, and very credible, to hold multiple positions on the manager and club at the same time. Having a fluid approach to our situation is credible because the situation of sport is fluid. One day we are celebrating a edgy win against Leicester, the next we are throwing it away at Old Trafford. More of those days are on the horizon, that I can promise you.

You lose credibility when you decide to die for one position.

Fair enough, I understand your point about fluidity over intransigence, but not about statistics.

Klopp's league table progression was from 8th to 1st in 4 seasons But his xG 'for' was up in the top 3 from his 2nd season onwards showing how good his attacking play was, even if he hadn't got some players he wanted. And his xG 'against' had a similar pattern showing his defence was also solid at the same time. His burst of spending gave him some quality in key positions he needed to win silverware.

Arteta xG 'for' has stayed mid table. His xG 'against' is currently16th. This pattern shows neither real progression or that he can defend or attack. And worst he's had his burst of spending.

Stats only confirm what you see with your eye. Over time they show a pattern. I'll be happy to be 'Arteta in'if there's a sign of improvement because I was foolish enough to think he could do the job, but at the moment it seems the club is just wasting time and money.

 

[Makingtrax]

Not sure what right you have to criticize anyone on this topic. Feel that you yourself are one of the most agenda driven posters around. Your posts always come with one basic premise, namely that the argument must glorify Wenger. You also use selective stats, like always mentioning our 2nd place finish with Wenger while always leaving out the fact that we regressed over the last two seasons under him to 5th and 6th.

Same old nonsense. The 2nd place finish kick started a serious removal campaign . . fact. Of course we regressed in his last two seasons, I've never denied that, just the reasons for the decline.

My stats are never selective. Arsène's 2015/16 whole season stats were superb even though you were frothing to remove him. Who's the agenda merchant?

And Arteta's stats are continuously mid table but you've been talking about part seasons. Who's selective with their stats?

Your posts are both personal and untruthful. But you're not going to provoke me, you'll never change.