• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
As for the muddying of waters I was referring to the net spend aspect of the whole debate. Every time we do another horrible sale or loan your lot spring up the topic of wages like clockwork.

Bayern - who have an inept DoF of their own - sold soon to be 34yo Lewandowski (who was on 380kpw at Bayern) for 45m, 12m each for yank Richards and Marc Roca, both **** and overpaid, and another 9m for Omar Richards who they got on a free from Reading a year ago and who got like 20 minutes of Bundesliga time since. They're about to sell Nianzou another free agent from last summer who looked useless in the 5-10 starts he got for 20m + buyback to Sevilla. All just this summer, all players who were blatantly unwanted or caused a massive uproar about leaving for one specific club (the same club who got paid to take Aubameyang). And they don't pay their squad players in food stamps in Munich either.

Madrid have gotten 10m in loan fees over the years and another 10m outright for Mayoral, absolute nonsense player. 40m for Varane who was done and on massive wages. Before them Danilo Morata etc.

Players at big clubs normally appreciate in value they don't go down. You sell the idea that their worth goes up from playing with world class team mates, top facilities etc, Arsenal fans were so desperate to believe the story that our former management pays 5000x the going rate just to feel good about us gifting players away.
We're dreadful at sales, Arteta carries a lot of blame for that for his horrible squad and people management but Edu is even worse, no point in having him around being brutally honest.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
I'm not sure how long you've been watching football but all of this isn't exactly news. No I did not think Ronaldo or Varane cost the club overall less than White costs us.

The question is what's the point of laying all of this out? Does the fact Ben White's wages are lower than Cristiano's make it any less true that we've spent record transfer fees for years now? You keep talking about people ignoring wages when you barely acknowledge the fact we've been spending absurd fees for players in recent years.

Have we though? We've signed many players under Arteta but the highest fees are Jesus, Partey and White around £50m each. They're all on relatively low wages

Compare that to Grealish 105m, Lukaku 100m, Havertz 70m, Maguire 80m, Sancho 80m, Cucurella and Martinez 65m each. And Chelsea look likely to splash another 80m on Fofana. That's before you add in their astranomical wages, Sancho and Lukaku on about £18m a season each

The Halaand transfer that will be £250m over the course of the deal.

We aren't splashing that type of cash. We are replacing dead wood with decent young players on lower wages and investing in fees to require them.

The question is what expectation should that have of the manager. Which is up for debate. I'm quite comfortable with the squad building and playing philosophy at the moment. I expect us to get 75+ points. But if we don't I don't necessarily want the manager sacked given the progress we seem to be making looking at the better quality football we're playing thus far.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
As for the muddying of waters I was referring to the net spend aspect of the whole debate. Every time we do another horrible sale or loan your lot spring up the topic of wages like clockwork.

The net spend is partly on Edu and partly on crap signings made by previous regimes. Chelsea, Sp**s and United have shedloads of deadwood they can not sell

I don't think net spend is in Arteta's remit whatsoever. It isn't his job and he didn't sign the players, bar Willian/Mari. Arteta is actually doing a pretty good record of signing players that aren't deadwood. When we are in a position where we have 22 players who aren't deadwood we'll start getting money for players we want to sell. Because we don't need to shift them anymore
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Of course money plays a large factor. You're not going to be a long term top, top side unless you spend big money. That's true.

But just throwing cash around wildly isn't a guarantee of success, just look at Man Utd currently. By most metrics they should be challenging Man City for the title year in year out but they're miles off.

There's a narrative being formed that if Arsenal do well this season it'll be purely down to KSE and the money spent and Arteta is just being carried along by a rising tide and is at best a net neutral if not a negative.

It's how some of you guys can find a way to justify not giving him any credit even if we do well. You're locked in that he's crap and results or positions aren't going to change that. Just goes to show you're as prone to confirmation bias and emotional thinking as the rest of us are. You are a fan so that's natural behaviour 😉
I don’t think Arteta’s crap, where are you getting this stuff from. I just don’t like the ridiculous hyperbole and PR surrounding him, this process nonsense, or his non negotiable hypocrisy. And certainly not this clearing up sh!t from Unai and Arsène.

He’s a rookie manager whose learning on the job and he appears to be improving. His buys have gone from terrible in the first season to brilliant and his U shaped pass maps have all but disappeared. There are players getting in the box and the transitions are looking slicker. Of course it helps that KSE have backed him to the hilt and are going toe to toe with the top spenders. Let’s see where it takes us.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
You guys are right in that we shouldn’t look at individual wages coz fook knows what they are. But you can look at total player wages from audited accounts…
Yeah, and the correlation is similar to transfer fees. They don’t match exactly but it’s good enough to show the same trend . . . the more you spend, the more likely you are to win matches.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
Because wages are a huge cost and part of acquiring football players.

Ronaldo costs United £33m per season including fee and wages over course of contract (£66m total for 2 years)
Varane costs United £26m per season including fee and wages over course of contract (£104m total for 4 years)
Ben White costs Arsenal £16m per season including fee and wages over course of contract (£80m total for 5 years)

But according to your logic United paid less for Ronaldo and Varane than we paid for Ben White. It's a nonsensical argument. And that's without going into agent fees in transfers

Someone like yourself only looking at fees would say 'Halaand is a bargain for £54m - that's what Arsenal paid for Ben White)

Except Halaand will cost Man City £250m including agent fees, fee to his parents and wages
Per season cost would be my favourite way of looking at it as playing staff have to be replenished.
 

grange

Losing my brain cells 🥸

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Inappropriate Language - Warning issued
The only thing that matters is that the Sexuals have their Arsenal back. We're watching our games in the nude again, sunbathing on our roofs with the neighbors getting the binoculars out, and we're happy and healthy.

The Wengcels are in their nan's dingy basements, curtains closed, printouts of squad cost and net spend strung up on their walls like crazed conspiracy theorists, wearing the same jizz crusted sweatpants for weeks at a time.

There is no need to continue arguing with these negative people.

giphy.gif
 

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
The net spend is partly on Edu and partly on crap signings made by previous regimes. Chelsea, Sp**s and United have shedloads of deadwood they can not sell

I don't think net spend is in Arteta's remit whatsoever. It isn't his job and he didn't sign the players, bar Willian/Mari. Arteta is actually doing a pretty good record of signing players that aren't deadwood. When we are in a position where we have 22 players who aren't deadwood we'll start getting money for players we want to sell. Because we don't need to shift them anymore
You think the highly publicised spats with players he didn't see eye to eye with had no bearing on our ability to extract value from our players?

Actually considering Edu's overall performance in sales you might be right. At other clubs publicly tearing a player down, reducing their playing time to close to zero etc would decimate a player's estimated market value, but halving or doubling zero is still zero with Edu.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Remember, the claim was that fans thought 5th was success/were happy with it, don't let them mind trick you into thinking the claim is anything else.
There was a lot of “if you had offered me our end position at the start of the season I’d have taken it” kind of posting which implies it was a success.

There was a lot of “happy with the progress” type posting and I only recently had an argument on here where I was accused of having an agenda because I called last season disappointing.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
There was a lot of “if you had offered me our end position at the start of the season I’d have taken it” kind of posting which implies it was a success.

There was a lot of “happy with the progress” type posting and I only recently had an argument on here where I was accused of having an agenda because I called last season disappointing.

I think at the start of last season many would have been delighted with 5th considering expectations at the time.

How it played out though was pretty annoying. We kind of let 4th slip through our fingers so that rightly put a downer on it was compounded by who we lost it to.

I'd say that decent / okay is a fair summary of last season overall. Progress but not a massive step forward.
 
Last edited:

TinFish

Well-Known Member
At this point of time Arteta should only be replaced in the future IF a world class, proven manager comes available. Arteta has his short comings, but one thing I can't dispute is the culture shift and attitude of the players. The players play for the badge and are also highly appreciative of their manager.

Someone else comes in, like a Mourinho and everything goes to sh!t. Even with Emery it felt like the players and fans alike weren't respecting him enough.

The problem with Arsenal, is that we are not a City or Madrid. We can't ruthlessly sack managers and have new ones come in with a high budget to improve the squad. We really are going through a process.

There is a feel good factor surrounding the club right now and I hope it continues with minimal disruption.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I think at the start of last season many would have been delighted with 5th considering expectations at the time.

How it played out though was pretty annoying. We kind of let 4th slip through our fingers so that rightly put a downer on it was compounded by who we lost it to.

I'd say that decent / okay is a fair summary of last season overall. Progress but not a massive step forward.
Cmon Tracks it can’t have been ok or decent with the manner it ended with the incompetence and naivety shown 2 years on job. It’s funny that I was lambasted because I said fans were ok with last season. At least you are honest enough to say yes I am ok with it but annoyed. I honestly don’t see the term ok season applying when Conte clowned him, kicked us all in the nads, took our lunch money and exiled us to Thursdays in Kazakhstan.
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:Martinelli
Cmon Tracks it can’t have been ok or decent with the manner it ended with the incompetence and naivety shown 2 years on job. It’s funny that I was lambasted because I said fans were ok with last season. At least you are honest enough to say yes I am ok with it but annoyed. I honestly don’t see the term ok season applying when Conte clowned him, kicked us all in the nads, took our lunch money and exiled us to Thursdays in Kazakhstan.
I think part of the problem here is “ok” is a broad and subjective term. Let’s give it marks out of 10 or sth. I thought it was 5.5/10. (Waiting for an outer to scream that means I thought it was an above average season…)
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I think part of the problem here is “ok” is a broad and subjective term. Let’s give it marks out of 10 or sth. I thought it was 5.5/10. (Waiting for an outer to scream that means I thought it was an above average season…)
Fair enough I’d give it a 3 out of 10. Let’s say 5 is average 10 is winning league or CL; getting clowned and beat up for your lunch money by your biggest rivals and failing so miserably while playing 15 or so less matches, to me it is sub par. So far to me Arteta has had one good half season and two sub par years. If he got CL I’d of given him an 8, but you are and should be judged more on how you finish
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Can’t believe you approved of that utter dross tbh. People want to keep forcing us to have this conversation, spend hundreds of hours on it, pathetic they can’t do better than solely gross spend imo.

Pointless even having the conversation if we can’t at least discuss wages.
Wow we are basically tied for 5th in wages with Sp**s they got us by a couple million. And we got 5th place in league, is this the massive over performance in wage spending that we should credit to Super Mik? And in transfer fees only United tops us under Arteta. So you have a virtual tie for 5th in wages, number 2 in transfer fees and your return on investment is humiliation to the **** and road trips to Borat’s over multiple time zones. This while playing a third of a season less than Sp**s. Abject underperformance anyway you slice the banana





39EAC233-41A4-428C-B9BF-D875ADD1E593.png
 
Top Bottom