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Mikel Arteta: Serial Non-Negotiator

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Dec 20, 2019.

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Do you believe Arteta will turn it around?

  1. Yes, I still have 100% faith in him

    13.6%
  2. Yes, but my confidence in him has decreased this season

    21.4%
  3. No, he should go imminently

    15.5%
  4. No, but he should stay on until his position becomes untenable

    31.1%
  5. Give him the rest of the season no matter what

    18.4%
  1. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    The problem is not with the personnel, it's the system.

    Instead of leaving attackers up high in the defensive phase(Auba/Pepe) to be able to break quickly we almost always have 11 behind the ball.

    So we are really hard to break down but slow and uninspiring in attack and almost always face an organized defensive unit ourselves.
    Every single game a grind.

    With the amazing transition players we have this is such a waste.
     
    Kav likes this.
  2. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    Mikky and Iwobi had far better chance creation than any of the players in our squad currently have and Ramsey was a goalscoring midfielder. In his last season (18/19 season) he played 1300 minutes in the league but Ramsey scored 4 and assisted 6. In the season before that he played 1800 minutes scoring 7 and assisting 8.

    Mikky played 1600 minutes in his last season which was also the 18/19 season. He scored 6 and assisted 4. Iwobi scored 3 and assisted 6 in 18/19 as well.

    Suddenly the 3 above players all leave in one season and we don't replace them. All 3 contributed to 29 league goals either through assisting or directly scoring in the 18/19 season.

    I agree that all 3 had to go, the general quality wasn't good enough. But you have to replace the output, not only in chances created but in goals scored from midfield.

    This is the main reason why our chance creation is dwindling. Pepe is a goalscoring winger, he isn't a creator as such but does have creative qualities. To unlock players like Pepe we need creative midfielders.
     
  3. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    The actual problem is that we always rush our attacks.
    Why can’t we just slow down and be patient.

    Read this and you will understand.
     
  4. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    Would be great if you would have FB's like Marcelo and Dani Alves, but I would've hoped that the manager can understand that the only way our FB's can attack is by running from the deep, and not by staying in forwarding positions like they did yesterday. Bellerin had absolutely no idea what do to, it was hilarious to watch him and you can't blame him for anything. Ceballos was behind him and he also didn't know what to do, because he needs runs from FB's and not seeing them static in the attack so the guy didn't know who to pass to.
    After that, the "solution" was to give Pepe a chance to put some crosses in from the left! :D Like, when was that strength of Pepe?
    A complete failure
     
    Kav likes this.
  5. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    I guess people don't understand why Arteta told us to play that way?

    He just watched Leicester batter Man City, who have a plethora of creative players but struggled to really break Leicester down through central areas. Their best moments came out wide.

    What does Arteta do? He told Xhaka to offer cover as the LCB which allowed Tierney to bomb forward. Similar system was implemented allowing Bellerin to bomb forward.

    Times in the game where this worked very well -

    • Tierney's ball in to Auba for the header, probably should've done better.
    • Luiz crossfield ball to Tierney who should've done better considering the position he was in.
    • Bellerin opportunity on the volley from Auba's cross from the left
    People need to realise we don't have any creative midfielders. There's almost 0 chance we are going to be creating anything in midfield this season, that isn't the managers fault. The manager is trying to fix that through very complexed tactics.

    Arteta's downfall was pushing hard for the goal but then allowing Xhaka to be against Under/Vardy down the other end.
     
    Oxeki, TakeChillPill and Riou like this.
  6. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    The idea is to create overloads which is not really possible in the centre.
    Having a completely isolated Laca in the centre does not work though.

    If you constantly have to track down into your own box you are not going to be effective having to run the entire pitch every single time just to get into an attacking position.

    It's a philosophie thing.
    Positive/Attacking:
    If you leave attackers high your opposition can't commit as many bodies forward without leaving themselves vulnerable.

    Defensive/Pragmatic:
    Defend with 11 behind the ball.
    This approach we should only use in the closing stages to protect a lead or against much superior opposition.
    We do it all the time.
     
    Kav likes this.
  7. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    Have you watch the clip I posted as example?
    That’s how we should play.
     
  8. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    So you are saying Atalanta has superior individual quality to us?
    Come on man. It's tactics.
     
    truth_hurts likes this.
  9. field442

    field442 Hates Journalists Named James Trusted

    Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey all played behind the striker. We could put Saka Willian and Pepe behind the striker and should get the same results. In Iwobi’s last season he created just under 40 chances in the league, Pepe created 40 chances last season. Willian created 76 chances last season, Saka had around 30 chances created. In the league Pepe, Saka and Willian combined for 33 goals/assists last season.

    Trying to play the card of not having enough creativity simply doesn’t hold weight. The players aren’t the problem, it’s how they’re being used.
     
    Kav and truth_hurts like this.
  10. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Wengerball >>>>>>>>>> boring boring Tiki Taka
     
    kash2, Moah and Aubamagoal like this.
  11. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Wengerball was extremely direct, Tiki Taka is "pass the ball around forever until your opposition gets so bored that they just don't bother anymore"
     
    Kav and blaze_of_glory like this.
  12. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    That Leicester - Man City game was over a month ago.

    Since then they’ve lost back to back league games to West Ham and Villa conceding four goals and scoring none. They weren’t some white hot juggernaut who were going to blow us away.
     
    Kav likes this.
  13. L3T5 PL4Y

    L3T5 PL4Y Flair Accuser

    I'm watching the game and have noticed 3 things.

    -We're hellbent on using the CBs, GK and our no.6 as our main source of game building as well as opening up the opposition defense. So what exactly is the point of forcing Xhaka into the team with Partey already here?

    -We're using the other midfielders to take up wide spots when on the ball to push our wide players(wingers and fullbacks) as further up the pitch as we can but this has our strikers completely isolated. Having Xhaka who can barely move, pass or do anything quick enough pretty much screws up the structure by merely being there and he isn't able to actually function since he hasn't got a role yet is just forcing the entire system to be blunt. You don't really need multiple players doing the same thing and what's the point of having Luiz, Gabriel, Ceballos and now Partey who are devaluing Xhaka's role in the game by default where another midfielder would be better able to connect the attack to the forward players more effectively?

    -I think Arteta is overdoing the pass, move, positioning and press stuff compromising a simpler route that's hurting all of our players specially our forwards as well as our attacking game overall. And not just from a gameplay perspective but having no settled front line and constantly moving around positions of Laca, Auba and the likes from one game to the next is creating more and more confusion as well as compromising team chemistry as well as confidence among the players. You can tell from their body language, decisions on the ball and lack of certainty that its a bit much.

    -We can't do Barcelona or Bayern or City. We can't. Its impossible. So trying to force the issue and compromising results isn't a good idea. You need to get to a certain state result wise with the players we've got before taking extreme measures first. There is nothing wrong with patience and gradual organic progression. Why not build from a foundation? We now have the set of players and enough to not overdo everything for a more direct simple way to get up the table. We should be and need to be more practical.
     
    Gunners1616 likes this.
  14. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    Honestly an awful comparison.

    Atalanta play a 343. Their wing backs are big, strong, athletic but also have incredible quality. Just look at Castagna for example who Leicester managed to nab from Atalanta. Last season from the left Gosens scored 9 goals and assisted 8 in the league.

    They then have Alejandro Gomez and Ilicic as the two inside forwards behind Zapata, their holdup striker. Atalanta have all the bones for how they play. Strong wing backs who score and assist regularly, a striker who holds up the ball incredibly well and is a threat in the air and two playmaking attackers who compliment everything that goes on around them.

    We actually don't have anyone like Gomez or Ilicic in our squad.

    @field442 valid points but I'm talking big chance creation. Mikky and Iwobi created 10 big chances each in their final seasons. Pepe comment is fair but even he doesn't put those numbers up, he's a goalscoring winger.
     
  15. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    There is no comparision. Atalanta score for fun with much less talented players.
    Fact.
     
  16. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    No but Leicester clearly set up differently in big away games, hitting teams on the counter. Which is all they did against us, they aren't a "white hot juggernaut" but they also aren't coming to the Emirates to be easily beaten.

    No matter what formation we played we would've been met by a blue wall, and we have no central quality to unlock that, so going wide was the best option.
     
  17. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    I just said to you Gomez and Ilicic are far more talented as playmakers and goalscoring midfielders than anything that we have in our squad, yet you decided to side step that like an awkward crab.
     
  18. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Didn't think the notion that Gomez or Illicic would turn is into an attacking force like Atalanta deserved a response.
    Willian would score and create for fun at Atalanta for example.
     
    truth_hurts likes this.
  19. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Ye pundits are clueless clowns, not really news.
     
  20. Moah

    Moah Well-Known Member

    Tiki Taka football will never ever happen again. Those players were some of the most gifted players ever that coincided with the system that was perfectly made for them. They played it, they aged, and it died when they left the club.

    Wengerball was something else. If Wenger had the perfect players like Barcelona did, it would have been the best style of play the world has ever seen.
     

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