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Mikel Arteta: Serial Non-Negotiator

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by OnlyOne, Dec 20, 2019.

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What should the minimum target for this season?

  1. Top 4 Finish

  2. Europa League Win

  3. A Realistic Top 4 Challenge

  4. A Domestic Trophy

  5. Getting the Team/Attack Clicking Irrespective of League Finish or Trophies

  6. Give Him Until The End of The Season Regardless

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. MikelHadADream

    MikelHadADream Well-Known Member

    Agree with you partly. Dont really have a problem with playing a good team against Vienna, it was arguably the hardest game in the group and we got the win.

    We don't have the players to play 433, we have no players like Ramsey as you say that can play box to box. 4231 is the way to go. Before the Southampton game last season, Arteta often played 4231 with 4 of Auba/Lacazette/Özil/Pepe/Nelson, I'd like to see him return to that now we have Partey, Gabriel and Willian.
     
  2. Oxeki

    Oxeki New Threads, Old Tweets

    I still trust Arteta. The problem is not really the tactics per se. The personnel is a huge issue. We don't have creative outlet and now we're forced to use wide areas to create.

    Xhaka, Partey and Ceballos Midfield is very solid but uninspiring. It offers plenty of control and stability but not so much creativity.

    We need to play two of the above with one of saka, Willian or ESR.

    I think Arteta will get it right eventually.
    He just needs to add a creative player to our Midfield.
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  3. DUFFMAN

    DUFFMAN Active Member

    Artetaout trending on twitter.

    Amazing how quickly things change in football.
     
  4. Aubamagoal

    Aubamagoal Active Member

    yes sure lets compare Klopp who was pretty much a proven manager to a rookie who is maybe 30 games into his career. You had an issue with my original post but their faults are glaring and to be honest worrying. Arteta is going to waste another year. He’s a cheap appointment and we will get what we pay for.

    As for your posts and phrases like “people like you” really show that you cant converse without making it a personal argument. “Embarassing” really.

    your post is liked by oxeki and football manager, the other two big brains that have resided in my ignore list for a while. Says it all. One more to the list.
     
    kash2 and Kav like this.
  5. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    It was coming for a while, but now when we've added a couple of good players, there much less space for excuses.
    If you can't create chances with Partey, Auba, Ceballos, Pepe, Saka,Willian and Laca, then you definitely start asking questions about how this team is instructed to play.
    This is the strongest team we've had in a while, with the worst attacking performances since the early 90s.

    So far it's been all about how many formations can Mikel copy from Pep, the same manager who failed miserably at City. Sometimes managers should just give their players some freedom, and back off with their tactical nonsense
     
    mazinarsenal1988 and truth_hurts like this.
  6. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    It has nothing to do with him being a rookie, the same crap was done by Pep and his failures in CL when he was trying to be smarter than he actually is, and Pep is an experienced manager.
    It's about their ego and they put their tactical bullshit before players and their qualities
     
    Gunner boy dd and Aubamagoal like this.
  7. krengon

    krengon One Arsene Wenger Trusted

    [​IMG]

    This passmap confirms it, no midfield play at all, clearly by design.. Only reason I can think of is Arteta might be worried about losing possession in that area so just forces play wide, but that’s just cowardly..
     
    Kav, blaze_of_glory and Aubamagoal like this.
  8. MikelHadADream

    MikelHadADream Well-Known Member

    God that isn't a pretty sight. Look at Auba's position ffs.
     
  9. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    The problem is not with the personnel, it's the system.

    Instead of leaving attackers up high in the defensive phase(Auba/Pepe) to be able to break quickly we almost always have 11 behind the ball.

    So we are really hard to break down but slow and uninspiring in attack and almost always face an organized defensive unit ourselves.
    Every single game a grind.

    With the amazing transition players we have this is such a waste.
     
    Kav likes this.
  10. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    Mikky and Iwobi had far better chance creation than any of the players in our squad currently have and Ramsey was a goalscoring midfielder. In his last season (18/19 season) he played 1300 minutes in the league but Ramsey scored 4 and assisted 6. In the season before that he played 1800 minutes scoring 7 and assisting 8.

    Mikky played 1600 minutes in his last season which was also the 18/19 season. He scored 6 and assisted 4. Iwobi scored 3 and assisted 6 in 18/19 as well.

    Suddenly the 3 above players all leave in one season and we don't replace them. All 3 contributed to 29 league goals either through assisting or directly scoring in the 18/19 season.

    I agree that all 3 had to go, the general quality wasn't good enough. But you have to replace the output, not only in chances created but in goals scored from midfield.

    This is the main reason why our chance creation is dwindling. Pepe is a goalscoring winger, he isn't a creator as such but does have creative qualities. To unlock players like Pepe we need creative midfielders.
     
  11. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    The actual problem is that we always rush our attacks.
    Why can’t we just slow down and be patient.

    Read this and you will understand.
     
  12. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    Would be great if you would have FB's like Marcelo and Dani Alves, but I would've hoped that the manager can understand that the only way our FB's can attack is by running from the deep, and not by staying in forwarding positions like they did yesterday. Bellerin had absolutely no idea what do to, it was hilarious to watch him and you can't blame him for anything. Ceballos was behind him and he also didn't know what to do, because he needs runs from FB's and not seeing them static in the attack so the guy didn't know who to pass to.
    After that, the "solution" was to give Pepe a chance to put some crosses in from the left! :D Like, when was that strength of Pepe?
    A complete failure
     
    Kav likes this.
  13. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    I guess people don't understand why Arteta told us to play that way?

    He just watched Leicester batter Man City, who have a plethora of creative players but struggled to really break Leicester down through central areas. Their best moments came out wide.

    What does Arteta do? He told Xhaka to offer cover as the LCB which allowed Tierney to bomb forward. Similar system was implemented allowing Bellerin to bomb forward.

    Times in the game where this worked very well -

    • Tierney's ball in to Auba for the header, probably should've done better.
    • Luiz crossfield ball to Tierney who should've done better considering the position he was in.
    • Bellerin opportunity on the volley from Auba's cross from the left
    People need to realise we don't have any creative midfielders. There's almost 0 chance we are going to be creating anything in midfield this season, that isn't the managers fault. The manager is trying to fix that through very complexed tactics.

    Arteta's downfall was pushing hard for the goal but then allowing Xhaka to be against Under/Vardy down the other end.
     
    Oxeki, TakeChillPill and Riou like this.
  14. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    The idea is to create overloads which is not really possible in the centre.
    Having a completely isolated Laca in the centre does not work though.

    If you constantly have to track down into your own box you are not going to be effective having to run the entire pitch every single time just to get into an attacking position.

    It's a philosophie thing.
    Positive/Attacking:
    If you leave attackers high your opposition can't commit as many bodies forward without leaving themselves vulnerable.

    Defensive/Pragmatic:
    Defend with 11 behind the ball.
    This approach we should only use in the closing stages to protect a lead or against much superior opposition.
    We do it all the time.
     
    Kav likes this.
  15. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    Have you watch the clip I posted as example?
    That’s how we should play.
     
  16. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    So you are saying Atalanta has superior individual quality to us?
    Come on man. It's tactics.
     
    truth_hurts likes this.
  17. field442

    field442 Hates Journalists Named James Trusted

    Iwobi, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey all played behind the striker. We could put Saka Willian and Pepe behind the striker and should get the same results. In Iwobi’s last season he created just under 40 chances in the league, Pepe created 40 chances last season. Willian created 76 chances last season, Saka had around 30 chances created. In the league Pepe, Saka and Willian combined for 33 goals/assists last season.

    Trying to play the card of not having enough creativity simply doesn’t hold weight. The players aren’t the problem, it’s how they’re being used.
     
    Kav and truth_hurts like this.
  18. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Wengerball >>>>>>>>>> boring boring Tiki Taka
     
    kash2, Moah and Aubamagoal like this.
  19. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Wengerball was extremely direct, Tiki Taka is "pass the ball around forever until your opposition gets so bored that they just don't bother anymore"
     
    Kav and blaze_of_glory like this.
  20. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Got Swerved By Gallas Trusted

    That Leicester - Man City game was over a month ago.

    Since then they’ve lost back to back league games to West Ham and Villa conceding four goals and scoring none. They weren’t some white hot juggernaut who were going to blow us away.
     
    Kav likes this.

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