• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
Lol Emery died for this. Along with his comical English.

Arteta has had results go his way though, so this has been overlooked. Also, it’s Pool on the hunt for the title - not Pool in a cup game already having won the title it’s a different energy. We can’t look too deeply into this loss.

Credit to Arteta for having us walk into this game expecting something.
This is Emery ball though and we’ve been playing it for a while. Our forwards have been bailing us out with superb shot conversion against the run of play for a hot minute.

Chelsea FA cup final and Fulham opening day are the only exceptions. We’ve had a pragmatic cagey approach to every match thus far with Auba and Laca making the most of our 2 chances per game.

I saw someone say that just going with a standard Wenger 4-2-3-1 with Xhaka, Ceballos, Özil, Auba, Laca and Pepe/Willian would probably suit this squad better. Like we'd get battered by Liverpool with that but we'd probably get top 4 just cos we'd create more and beat the smaller teams.

Arteta has his whole progress and i'm with him on that journey, the guy clearly needs better players, and I think he's a coach who has potential to build a proper team. But honestly I think a standard Wenger season with this squad probably gets 4th, albeit 4th would be the ceiling.

Arteta wants balance and that's fine. But against weaker sides I'd probs just play an extra attacker and stop overthinking it. Cos even against weaker sides our shots taken and our xG isn't particularly impressive.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
People gotta stop perpetuating this myth.
I agree, but I am not the one who had problems with his English. The media, fans and then the squad took the piss out of him, not me. I thought was wrong but hey - it happens.

If you can't tell the difference between this and Emery I worry for you. It's brushing over massive differences. It's like calling Pellegrini and Guardiola the same thing or Allardyce and Cholo the same thing just because they share certain stylistic similarities.
I have pointed out their similarities on a number of occasions - but I don't want to sound like a broken record.
Please tell me what's so different or has changed under Arteta.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Pls tell you whats so different or changed @Macho not sure if you're serious?

  • Torreira isn't played at number 10
  • We dont concede 30 shots a game at home to Wolves and Brighton
  • We are actually in big games instead of getting fooled around with
The key thing for me is would Auba have stayed if Emery was here? No not a ****ing chance. That in itself says a lot.

If you cant see the difference between Emery and Arteta's management of essentially the same players then you probably need to go and read about football or maybe watch some of our games under Emery.

Arteta wouldn't have lost 4-1 in the europa league final for starters.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
I saw someone say that just going with a standard Wenger 4-2-3-1 with Xhaka, Ceballos, Özil, Auba, Laca and Pepe/Willian would probably suit this squad better. Like we'd get battered by Liverpool with that but we'd probably get top 4 just cos we'd create more and beat the smaller teams.

Arteta has his whole progress and i'm with him on that journey, the guy clearly needs better players, and I think he's a coach who has potential to build a proper team. But honestly I think a standard Wenger season with this squad probably gets 4th, albeit 4th would be the ceiling.

Arteta wants balance and that's fine. But against weaker sides I'd probs just play an extra attacker and stop overthinking it. Cos even against weaker sides our shots taken and our xG isn't particularly impressive.
Well thought out -and yeah don't get me wrong I am 100% behind Arteta just like I was behind Emery.

I don't understand the vitriol for one when they are both doing similar things because they lack the right players. Emery never got his, I hope Arteta does.

Wenger is the only manager out of our recent lot to have the balls to try and impose our football instead of the pragmatic approach or recent managers have taken. I was a fool to wish him out.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
Pls tell you whats so different or changed @Macho not sure if you're serious?

  • Torreira isn't played at number 10
I agree this was stupid, Emery lost the plot and started tinkering.

We dont concede 30 shots a game at home to Wolves and Brighton
https://theathletic.co.uk/1945591/2...rticle_source=search&search_query=superficial

When Mikel Arteta arrived at Arsenal, his immediate priority was to try and stabilise the Arsenal defence. On the face of it, his efforts appear to have worked: his team are conceding just 1.0 goals per game compared to 1.46 under Unai Emery.

However, the underlying metrics suggest the improvement has not been so dramatic. Under Emery, Arsenal had an expected goals (xG) against of 1.57 per game. Arteta’s team have an xG against of 1.46, suggesting opponents have almost as much opportunity to score as they did under his predecessor. Arsenal are conceding fewer goals — but they’re still conceding chances.
We've conceded less but yeah here are the actual numbers. Forget the xG crap cause that's even nonsense - just use your eyes and look at the chances missed by West Ham, Pool in our cup games, City last season, etc etc.

We are actually in big games instead of getting fooled around with
The key thing for me is would Auba have stayed if Emery was here? No not a ****ing chance. That in itself says a lot.
There had been notable differences in our big games under Emery initially just like Arteta. Don't take my word for it, here you go

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-big-six-rivals-has-improved-under-unai-emery

This was after we beat Man U 2-0, that famous Derby when Torreira took his shirt off and you man got gassed. There were some other performances where we were more stubborn than usual to beat. Xhaka, Ramsey and some others came out and praised Emery.

I agree, Auba wouldn't have stayed under Emery.

If you cant see the difference between Emery and Arteta's management of essentially the same players then you probably need to go and read about football or maybe watch some of our games under Emery.
This comment was unnecessary and just pure emotion.

Arteta wouldn't have lost 4-1 in the europa league final for starters.
You literally have no proof of this lol. Where as we have Olympiakos where we didn't do so well under Arteta.
 
Last edited:

MikelHadADream

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I'd like to see us move to a more traditional back 4 in the coming weeks.

The 343 is great against most teams press high against us, as our main attacking threat now is playing out of the back and getting our front 3 1v1 with the oppositions back line. This is a reason why we've been good in the big games recently, and would be fine with us continue using it in these types of games.

But, it really limits us when the opposition have reverted to their defensive block, as we don't have enough players in the middle to progress the play. I think lesser teams will figure the formation out very soon, and will just sit back against us.

I'd like to see Arteta trust his defenders more now in these games, and go with a back 4 of:

Bellerin-Luiz-Gabriel-KT

With 3 of Ceballos/Willian/Saka/Aouar* playing at all times.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Please tell me what's so different or has changed under Arteta.

I explained a bit in this post you actually liked? maybe by accident.

Apples and oranges. Arteta has absolutely rode his luck and the results absolutely have belied the performances so far, but there is a coherent plan there, there is real instruction, which is why the players are all behind him and convinced that he is a top manager. Watch a video of our goals playing out of a press, it's got the massive, undeniable handprint of a manager effectively teaching good juego de posición in countering a press. The 3-4-3 in defence and 4-3-3 in possession has also been a very astute reading and use of our personnel, and well taught and translated to the pitch.

Arteta is doing what he can with his personnel, it's totally different to incoherent Emery and his early-season luck, or even the lucky run we had under Wenger in the first half of 13-14, where we similarly well out-performed our xG/actual performance level/actual level of tactical instruction.

Nitpicking there are a few times he has been arguably too conservative--Olympiakos, 2nd half against Leicester after having that approach come back to bite us in another match before which we should've learned from (forget which, but there was a precedent)--and today I winced a bit when I saw the lineup, but to be fair the idea to keep it close and bring on more attacking talent basically worked, Lacazette just bottled it, so while I still would've liked to see Dani from the start and maybe Saka for AMN, it's hard to be too critical.

To sum up:

-We defend far, far better. Emery installed a defensive set-up without actual defensive organisation. Basically, we ceded control--which will lead to the kid of bottom of the table performances we produced against actual bottom of the table sides--without actually improving defensively. Typical of the man, his set-up was poorly instructed and neither here nor there; it weakened our offence and our defence. https://statsbomb.com/2020/09/arsenal-season-preview-2020-21/

-There's an actual plan in possession. In short, the juego de posición that I mention above. It's not what we're used to, because we associate juego de posición with maintaining and controlling possession, but it's obvious in the players positioning on the pitch, Arteta's constant instruction of them from the sideline re: this aspect, our ability to pass out of presses with one-touch moves*. Again, another hallmark of Emery's incompetence, there was no real coherent plan in possession: he wanted us to pass out of the back, but without any plan or instruction. It's why within a few months of Arteta we had already constructed more interesting moves playing out from the back than in a year and a half under Emery. It's why Emery playing out from the back basically just resulted either in long-balls conceding possession or inviting further pressure.

* this can happen because of this instruction:
this is Arteta describing a basic hallmark of juego de posición, and as I say, the instruction of the manager is written all over these types of moves.


Anyways, take a look in the spanish football thread at the 2nd goal of Barça's the other day, it's the kind of stuff we were used to seeing under Emery; just terrible, terrible positioning on the pitch, the evidence of incompetent tactical instruction. The kind of stuff that will allow you to regularly receive 30 shots even against ****ing Watford.

Emery is a very poor manager; like I say, to say that things haven't changed is to brush over like all the interesting details of football, and makes us much sense as comparing Cholo to Allardyce or Guardiola to Pellegrini.
 

KenyanGoon

Member
Obviously it's a very small sample size but the stat is that only West Brom have fewer shots at goal so far in the PL. Now you give that time obviously, but our very low number of shots taken last season was one of our biggest structural flaws imo, and I really want to see that stat change. We need to take more shots and rely less on high shot conversion.
You cant really have a high number of shots when you are creating nothing. Yesterday we were piss poor and even so we scored a fluke goal plus Laca wasted 2 glorious chances. Improve creativity, shots go up automatically.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
Arteta ball will work against most teams in this league. But only by virtue of us being less defensively vulnerable than the opposition and having Aubameyang. It's designed to keep us in the game and not have to open ourselves up to counter attacks by chasing goals.

It's a pretty steadfast approach. He's working on a process. Firstly the players have to understand a clear way of playing and all be on the same wavelength about it and then they open up (in theory).

We all have to remember the circumstances he came to this club. I've been critical of one or two of his selections but I get what he's trying to do. With Emery, he tried to do too much too quickly and confused everyone.

What I selfishly wish Arteta would do more is:
  • Show more faith in the younger players (not just Eddie) like Saka, Nelson and Willock
  • Use Aubameyang to spearhead the attack. He is far better at working space for a shot, a better finisher and a has better movement than both Laca and Eddie. We also have 3 players who are naturally suited to the left.
  • Use a third midfielder from time to time. I just want to see what we could do with Ceballos anchored by two of Xhaka/Elneny/Torreira/Willock behind him doing the dirty work
Other than that, he's probably the best for our current situation. I just really hope he gets the players he wants. Not Jorginho or any more Chelsea rejects either.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
I got the 3-4-3 at the end of last season, but this is getting cowardly now.

There's no balance and consistent threat in the team with both Auba and Laca starting.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
Arteta ball will work against most teams in this league. But only by virtue of us being less defensively vulnerable than the opposition and having Aubameyang. It's designed to keep us in the game and not have to open ourselves up to counter attacks by chasing goals.

It's a pretty steadfast approach. He's working on a process. Firstly the players have to understand a clear way of playing and all be on the same wavelength about it and then they open up (in theory).

We all have to remember the circumstances he came to this club. I've been critical of one or two of his selections but I get what he's trying to do. With Emery, he tried to do too much too quickly and confused everyone.

What I selfishly wish Arteta would do more is:
  • Show more faith in the younger players (not just Eddie) like Saka, Nelson and Willock
  • Use Aubameyang to spearhead the attack. He is far better at working space for a shot, a better finisher and a has better movement than both Laca and Eddie. We also have 3 players who are naturally suited to the left.
  • Use a third midfielder from time to time. I just want to see what we could do with Ceballos anchored by two of Xhaka/Elneny/Torreira/Willock behind him doing the dirty work
Other than that, he's probably the best for our current situation. I just really hope he gets the players he wants. Not Jorginho or any more Chelsea rejects either.

It's still very conservative in terms of style and player selection though. Liverpool wasn't a one off, we're boring to watch even against non top 6. opposition.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I got the 3-4-3 at the end of last season, but this is getting cowardly now.

There's no balance and consistent threat in the team with both Auba and Laca starting.

He'd probably realise how much more effective we are at opening up teams in the final third with a creative winger on the left than someone waiting for a long ball over the top.

That's not a criticism of Aubameyang either, I just think two of the front 3 need to be capable of retaining possession in the final 3rd. These two are out and out strikers, and one is much better at it than the other.

You only need one out and out striker in your front 3.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
He'd probably realise how much more effective we are at opening up teams in the final third with a creative winger on the left than someone waiting for a long ball over the top.

That's not a criticism of Aubameyang either, I just think two of the front 3 need to be capable of retaining possession in the final 3rd. These two are out and out strikers, and one is much better at it than the other.

You only need one out and out striker in your front 3.

I'm looking for progress though. After Aston Villa at the tail end of last season, I was wondering if he'll change things with the new season with only 1 striker starting and proper wide player on the left. It was similar story against West Ham though.

Xhaka still has way too much to do, he's still our most important defensive midfielder and creator in the middle. Him and Ceballos together sort of works but both are still very static. Luiz still starts when fit which causes us to drop 10-15 yards deeper than necessary.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I'm looking for progress though. After Aston Villa at the tail end of last season, I was wondering if he'll change things with the new season with only 1 striker starting and proper wide player on the left. It was similar story against West Ham though.

Xhaka still has way too much to do, he's still our most important defensive midfielder and creator in the middle. Him and Ceballos together sort of works but both are still very static. Luiz still starts when fit which causes us to drop 10-15 yards deeper than necessary.

That’s why we’re still active in the market though. I don’t think this is the squad he sold Auba to during contract discussions. Let’s hope we can get one or two of those deals over the line.
 
Last edited:

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Lol Emery died for this. Along with his comical English.

Arteta has had results go his way though, so this has been overlooked. Also, it’s Pool on the hunt for the title - not Pool in a cup game already having won the title it’s a different energy. We can’t look too deeply into this loss.

Credit to Arteta for having us walk into this game expecting something.
This is Emery ball though and we’ve been playing it for a while. Our forwards have been bailing us out with superb shot conversion against the run of play for a hot minute.

Chelsea FA cup final and Fulham opening day are the only exceptions. We’ve had a pragmatic cagey approach to every match thus far with Auba and Laca making the most of our 2 chances per game.
Lol!

You've rubbed a few up the wrong way but you're not far off.

Defensively we are very different now. Less open more resolute less likely to throw away a 2-0 lead to Crystal Palace.

But if viewed through a lens of just the attack then you're about right. Few nicer 15+ pass goals but over all little creation. Unsurprising... It's the same midfield after all!
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
That’s why we’re still active in the market though. I don’t think this is the squad he sold Auba too during contract discussions. Let’s hope we can get one or two of those deals over the line.

Like you said in the other post, some of these changes could be done internally with the youngsters as well without the need for new arrivals. They aren't super raw now; Nelson, Willock, Saka and Nketiah have decent first team and PL exposure to not be a liability or overawed any more. Willock and Saka especially.

Not discounting the need for new arrivals. But I'm talking more about the style and formation.
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
theres a reason Arsène packed his squad with midfielders, and why klopp does likewise. Also if your wide forwards cant pin back the opposing fullbacks and keep them honest, then Salah and Mane will cause havoc.

Arteta went into the match already beaten, just like Emery used to do, and in a way like Arsène used to do. An approach built around minimizing damage against the top 4 and tonking everyone else and sneaking into champions league places.

Can still work, but I miss the days when we went again prime barcelona and the fans had hope and the team had pride in their club.
 

Latest posts+

Top Bottom