Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[tap-in]

I think the club will give Arteta more time than they did Emery. He's already done more with that FA Cup win and deserves it I think. Should be given a few years to implement what he wants. I really hope we get back to a more fluid and attacking style though. That's Arsenal.

They have to give him 2 or 3 years regardless of what happens, having said that relegation this season would change my mind.

We clearly need a creative midfielder, a CB to play beside Gabriel (unless Saliba starts to get games) and a top striker. We should be able to do that next summer, by then we will have Martinelli back in the attack which will help a lot.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Don't think Arteta is being helped by Auba dipping in form, Lacazette being worst signing in the history of the club and Pepe not even making sense as a football player anymore.

 

[Trilly]

How long before we start getting the “how am I doing boss” memes?

With Moyes or Emery saying “great son, great”.

Feel like you were asking for one.

 

[Finesse]

This system looks like it's still a work in progress and without genuine quality in each and every position it's going to take slightly longer than usual. I think Arteta should really find a simpler way to create crossing situations like KT did plenty of times in the 1st half

The issue is simple. Week in week out we see City defenders and midfielders feeding these passes to feet deep in the opponents final third to Foden , Sterling and Co. Against Leicester our defenders and midfielders were playing wide or floating the ball into the wings or into the attack. Safe options. Saka was dropping deep and finding space but the ball never came often to match his movement. Gabriel , Dani and Xhaka were taking too many touches , not moving the ball quickly and hence missing the window to put the balls into feet. Luis was our best outlet and that was unbelievable for a 3 man midfield set up. Therefore our attacks were toothless and Leicester could easily defend them.

On the brighter side, the wrong player was taking up the deep positions. Partey is the best we have at making forward passes from deep and passing between the lines. We saw that at Vienna when we played that role. Vs Leicester he kept roaming and making himself available but the passive/over safe defenders decided it was too risky to pass to him. He flared his arms a few times when he was ignored. Arteta should give him the free role as the forward passer. Simeone used him several times to great effect.

 

[Kav]

I have now calmed down over Sundays result.

Objectively: We did well, controlled the first half and had a few opportunities via David Luiz and his passing. Leicester sat back and was content to allow us considerable freedom in the middle of the park.

Truthfully, they were just analyzing our play. Second Half they figured out how we were playing and made the adjustments to block off any openings. We were significantly hampered by Luiz Injury and our offense went off with him.

Leicester then started to press our midfield and eventually that along with their quick transition gave them a goal.

We had no answer and could not muster a reply.

The problem for Arteta is that his team's play is not only predictable but also preventable by the opposition. They know we have no Midfield so all they have to do is pack the center of the field because we are going to cross once we go wide and if we don't cross we will pass back into a big U shape.

Arteta' s biggest issue is going to be how to figure out how to get his players to transition the play faster all while maintaining position defensively. If he can do that he will get the balance right eventually. He also needs to not be so reliant on wing play, we become predictable that way.

I don't think he is a bad coach. I think he is very new to this and is still learning about his players and himself. He will make mistakes and get many things wrong, unfortunately i don't think Arsenal can afford too many mistakes and trial and error. He will have to get it right this season if he wants to be here next year, Progression is needed. If he comes in 6-8 in the table it will be a failure. I am going to root for him to succeed but if he is doing foolishness i will call him out on it.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

ARTETA OUT

Awful signings, awful football. Spanish Unai.

 

[dka1]

I went ahead and watched a few games for a bit of a comparison. From the Wenger era I watched the first half of the painful 0 - 3 defeat to city at home when Auba first signed.

I then watched the 5 - 1 Everton game when Sanchez just left. I then caught Liverpool's second half against Midtjylland FC and finally re-watched the Vienna game after we conceded and a bit of the 4 - 0 against Newcastle last season.

Firstly I do have to say, Wenger's teams could be diabolical at the back but there's no doubt that he could get an attack going even in his final season. Even in the City game we easily carved out 3-4 dangerous opportunities before they eventually scored.

Chance creation almost came naturally as we had so many players in dangerous areas and especially in the classic "half spaces". In addition to this our passing and back to front movement was lightspeed compared to now. And the quick 1-2s combined with small spaces between players meant it was much easier for us to keep and control possession.

The passing was pretty daring too, in some plays we'd just get a shedload of players into the box and sort of bulldoze our way through the middle to get the ball to them which caused a lot of problems for opposing defenders.

The big downside was our complete lack of stability and at points we looked like we weren't coached at all in defense haha.

Now in our Newcastle game last season, we were still pretty structured. I think we played with a little more freedom but a lot of our play still came from the wing.

Taking another look at the Vienna game I don't think the problem is as bad as I thought... and yes our players do thankfully move....though not as much as they could. The main issues are:

1. We beeline to the wings too early, we then expect magic from the winger/wing back to get the ball to the edge of the box. Sure Liverpool do beeline to the wing, but usually it's when whoever is there has a lot of space or doesn't have to do much to get the ball into the box.

2. We get the wing backs high but in exchange we lose the midfield so there's literally zero threat through that area (unless Mo does a madness). Our midfield with Partey and Ceballos is quite decent, they need to be closer to dangerous areas more consistently in exchange for a winger (it can rotate ofc).

3. This point sort of leads on from before; there's not enough of the ball being carried in the middle area of the final third. We did this well with Wenger, either carrying or 1-2s in that area. This pulls the opposition out of shape making passes into the box easier.

I think that covers the main observations, I've probably missed a lot but I certainly think the problems we're having aren't insurmountable so I'm hoping Arteta can improve that area.

 

[Trilly]

It’s funny because by the end of the season we could all be very pleased with him.

Looking bleak atm, I remember bringing up his xG at points during last season and I was told it was something to do with penalties or something and that it was necessary because he’s fixed our defence.

Have you really fixed the defence if you’re just chucking an extra defender at the problem.

 

[Red London]

It’s funny because by the end of the season we could all be very pleased with him.

Looking bleak atm, I remember bringing up his xG at points during last season and I was told it was something to do with penalties or something and that it was necessary because he’s fixed our defence.

Have you really fixed the defence if you’re just chucking an extra defender at the problem.

I agree with your general point but at least he actually fixed our defence playing negative football, Emery couldn't do the same

 

[DanDare]

Mikky there’s a hole in the team and you’ve not got Mesut to fill it. What you going to do? Need to start winning now.

 

[Red London]

Feel like the pressure has really mounted onto Arteta after this loss. I will be patient with him, more so if he attempts to use our attacking talent to our advantage.

When you look at it simply, we have better attacking and midfield talent than a lot of teams in the league. Ceballos, Partey, Saka, Willian, Pepe, Aubameyang are talented players who can create chances or score goals. So is it productive to play so defensively vs the lower teams or even Leicester who played like one? You are basically swooping yourself down to their level and playing their kind of game, something their manager and more mediocre players are used to.

Arteta started off here using a 4231. I feel like his 343 really worked out in big games and helped us win a trophy so he has adopted it as his main formation. Really, what he should do is recognise that it works in tough games at maximising our chances against better sides, but there is a time and place. If we played expansive football against West Ham and Sheffield but kept it tight like we did vs Liverpool and City then Arteta would have less questions being asked of him as we did cause them worries for periods of the game (could have been ahead against city if auba and saka finished their 1on1s, and coulda been drawing to liverpool with 10m left if laca took his 1on1).

The bottom line here is that Arteta should be using the 343 in games where better teams are taking it to us and go for an attacking 433 or a 4231 in games where we need to break down the opposition.

He isnt getting anywhere as a manager here if he persists with this negative football in every single game. He wont persist as a top manager either unless he takes the Simeone / Allegri route. That wasnt the style of football fans were expecting when we hired him after being a La Masia academy product, playing under Wenger, and being the assistant to Pep Guardiola. He has expansive football in his genes and blood, and its okay to depart from that and make your own strain. But there is departing and then there is this.

 

[Trilly]

being a La Masia academy product, playing under Wenger, and being the assistant to Pep Guardiola.

Don’t forget the six solid years under the legendary Moyeseh.

That seems to have been what resonated with him the most.

 

[DanDare]

He's shown he can drill the team and get them playing in a disciplined way. Now he needs to become more expansive. I think he didn this and if Bellerin's volley, the Laca disallowed goal, the header Laca should have scored go in things look totally different.

Stil needs to develop the team to stop relying on a CB who's near retirement to be the key playmaker

 

[Red London]

He's shown he can drill the team and get them playing in a disciplined way. Now he needs to become more expansive. I think he didn this and if Bellerin's volley, the Laca disallowed goal, the header Laca should have scored go in things look totally different.

Stil needs to develop the team to stop relying on a CB who's near retirement to be the key playmaker

Yeh in Arteta’s defence, in the Liverpool City and Leicester game we missed good chances. I know we’ve been seeing these stats about the lack of chances created and shots etc but those were extremely high quality chances that we wasted.

3 1on1s and a Lacazette sitter in those 3 games. And that’s off the top off my head. 2 of those top chances fell to Laca. That’s why I would rather play Auba central and replace Laca’s spot in the team with a technically proficient player like Willian on the left side.

 

[Football Manager]

He's shown he can drill the team and get them playing in a disciplined way. Now he needs to become more expansive. I think he didn this and if Bellerin's volley, the Laca disallowed goal, the header Laca should have scored go in things look totally different.

Stil needs to develop the team to stop relying on a CB who's near retirement to be the key playmaker

He just need to drill the team in a very attacking way. Like how Guardiola has been doing. Guardiola’s tactics is all about discipline, up until they reach their opponent’s box.

 

[Big Poppa]

Teams have sussed him and his left channel out.

Sheffield Utd played 3 at the back and 5 in midfield, Burke blocked Tierney’s space, Baldock blocked Saka’s space, Basham blocked Auba’s space.

West Ham played 3 at the back and 5 in midfield. Bowen blocked Tierney’s space, Fredericks blocked Saka’s space, Diop blocked Aubas space.

City played 3 at the back and 5 in midfield. Mahrez blocked Tierney’s space, Foden (was supposed to) block Saka’s space, Walker blocked Auba’s space.

Leicester played 3 at the back and 5 in midfield.
Praet and Maddison pressed Ceballos and Xhaka. Barnes pressed Partey. Fofana struggled in the first half but thrived when Saka went off and Under came on.

Using such a rigid structure with players who take 5 touches before passing back to Gabriel or Luiz will only have one outcome.

 

[Football Manager]

I went ahead and watched a few games for a bit of a comparison. From the Wenger era I watched the first half of the painful 0 - 3 defeat to city at home when Auba first signed.

I then watched the 5 - 1 Everton game when Sanchez just left. I then caught Liverpool's second half against Midtjylland FC and finally re-watched the Vienna game after we conceded and a bit of the 4 - 0 against Newcastle last season.

Firstly I do have to say, Wenger's teams could be diabolical at the back but there's no doubt that he could get an attack going even in his final season. Even in the City game we easily carved out 3-4 dangerous opportunities before they eventually scored.

Chance creation almost came naturally as we had so many players in dangerous areas and especially in the classic "half spaces". In addition to this our passing and back to front movement was lightspeed compared to now. And the quick 1-2s combined with small spaces between players meant it was much easier for us to keep and control possession.

The passing was pretty daring too, in some plays we'd just get a shedload of players into the box and sort of bulldoze our way through the middle to get the ball to them which caused a lot of problems for opposing defenders.

The big downside was our complete lack of stability and at points we looked like we weren't coached at all in defense haha.

Now in our Newcastle game last season, we were still pretty structured. I think we played with a little more freedom but a lot of our play still came from the wing.

Taking another look at the Vienna game I don't think the problem is as bad as I thought... and yes our players do thankfully move....though not as much as they could. The main issues are:

1. We beeline to the wings too early, we then expect magic from the winger/wing back to get the ball to the edge of the box. Sure Liverpool do beeline to the wing, but usually it's when whoever is there has a lot of space or doesn't have to do much to get the ball into the box.

2. We get the wing backs high but in exchange we lose the midfield so there's literally zero threat through that area (unless Mo does a madness). Our midfield with Partey and Ceballos is quite decent, they need to be closer to dangerous areas more consistently in exchange for a winger (it can rotate ofc).

3. This point sort of leads on from before; there's not enough of the ball being carried in the middle area of the final third. We did this well with Wenger, either carrying or 1-2s in that area. This pulls the opposition out of shape making passes into the box easier.

I think that covers the main observations, I've probably missed a lot but I certainly think the problems we're having aren't insurmountable so I'm hoping Arteta can improve that area.

Exactly. This is exactly what I have observed too:

I don’t get why we are rushing crosses into the box.

Surely we can pass it around the box, and work our way in patiently. Just use a bit of movement/dribbling skills and pass the ball around until we find a gap in the opponent defence.


00:40-00:48
Why is tierney crossing the ball?
Should have just make a short cut back to auba.

00:52-1:00
Auba should have use a bit of skills to dribble past his marker, and then making a low cross or short pass.

————————————————————————
We should pass around until we finds a gap.
Our players would have crossed the ball at 00:20. But they shouldn’t.

We should not expect magical things happening on the wing position when the box is packed with opponent players. The wingers are there to create width, stretch the play. They should make short passes back to the central area, allowing central players to have more space to create their play.

Look how city use their wingers to stretch the opponent’s shape wide. And then they pass the ball back to the centre. Now their central players have more space to exploit, because the opponent is stretched wide.

 

[dka1]

He just need to drill the team in a very attacking way. Like how Guardiola has been doing. Guardiola’s tactics is all about discipline, up until they reach their opponent’s box.

Bingo. I think Guardiola said so himself, something to the effect of he gives detailed instructions up until the final third then he lets the players do their thing to foster the creativity.

EDIT: Here's the quote from Henry on Guardiola, I'm glad I remembered it correctly (though it wasn't Pep that said it):

"For him, winning is a consequence of playing well with the ball on the ground, respecting his plan, staying in position and always keeping possession.

"He puts everything in place to get the ball up to the final third of the pitch and then trusts his team to finish the job in the only area of the field that can’t be planned for."

Funny I was listening to Alan Davies's interview with Wenger, I think Davies pointed out that Vieira > Bergkamp was one of the larger (or the largest) pass combinations during their time in the team.

Wenger said well when you have good players on the pitch they naturally find out other good players.

That really resonated, as I do think to some extent you need to give players the freedom when they attack. Sure we should still drill patterns but it's all about balance, sometimes they should go through the middle, sometimes they freestyle, so long as there is a plan if the ball is lost.

 

[Macho]

Wonder who our next manager gonna be.

 

[gamechannel]

If he fails to pick up any points in the next 3 league games, we will have 9 points from 9 games. At that point, serious questions have to be asked of Mikel. I would firmly be Arteta Out at that point. We can't be content with 7-8 place finish. With City, ManU, Spuds, Pool, Chelsea, Leicester and to an extent Everton, top 6 will be a pipe dream if we end up with only 9 points from 9 league games..