Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[HairSprayGooners]

OCWID is actually a disease it seems. I pulled this from the NHS website.

Seems fairly serious.

 

[Makingtrax]

You know, you could just back both of them as our manager...Arteta wasn't one of the scumbags that wanted Arsène sacked.

But I'm the squad cost guy. We're spending 5th. Finish above that like Arsène did with lovely football and I'm very happy. Finish bang on 5th like early Emery did in his first year and that's OK. Finish below that and something's wrong. 11th is a sign of severe problems and he's got a few tough games coming up bro.

 

[Taneruit]

But I'm the squad cost guy. We're spending 5th. Finish above that like Arsène did with lovely football and I'm very happy. Finish bang on 5th like early Emery did in his first year and that's OK. Finish below that and something's wrong. 11th is a sign of severe problems and he's got a few tough games coming up bro.

Thank god we're just halfway through the season then and not at the end then? Also before the retort comes, after the first few games Man United was bottom half of the table (so was City), now they are top.

Rather than the arbitrary number of 11, look how many actual points we're behind the top 5. In other years this was the difference between 4 and 6 not 5 and 11.

If we fall of further, by all means.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

But I'm the squad cost guy. We're spending 5th. Finish above that like Arsène did with lovely football and I'm very happy. Finish bang on 5th like early Emery did in his first year and that's OK. Finish below that and something's wrong. 11th is a sign of severe problems and he's got a few tough games coming up bro.

Arsenal’s squad cost of 5th used to be Arsène’s squad cost because he bought all those players. Our squad cost right now is not Arteta’s squad cost, it’s not his players, bar a handful.
The £72m cost of Pepe shouldn’t count against Arteta, he never bought him. Highly doubt he would’ve allowed it had he been in charge.

Wenger was great, but if you’re judging Arteta the comparison should be fair. Arteta’s squad cost is £74m, not fifth.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

Also means Roberto Di Matteo is the best manager ever. @Jack_the_boy is outright delusional and imo malicious.

One would think being terrorized by one Erlis in a lifetime is enough & then this guy pops up.

We can't catch a break at AM it seems

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Arsenal’s squad cost of 5th used to be Arsène’s squad cost because he bought all those players. Our squad cost right now is not Arteta’s squad cost, it’s not his players, bar a handful.
The £72m cost of Pepe shouldn’t count against Arteta, he never bought him. Highly doubt he would’ve allowed it had he been in charge.

Wenger was great, but if you’re judging Arteta the comparison should be fair. Arteta’s squad cost is £74m, not fifth.

Don't even bother making that argument against him. He cannot take anyone else's point on board, doesn't even respond and he probably won't respond to this.

Squad cost is incredibly flawed especially when you have a new manager. Like you say you've got Pepe hardly contributing who is £72M of that squad cost @Makingtrax mentions. You then also have Saliba and Mustafi who between them cost £60M or so.

If we are judging squad cost fairly then you must judge it by the current managers starting 11 and who they prefer for the majority of games.

Variables must be included to make it fair. For example Saliba, Mustafi and Chambers cost shouldn't even be considered. Nor should Sokratis or Özil for obvious reasons. Immediately right there your squad cost has gone down £132M. Then you have players like Pepe who just aren't in favour under Arteta and that I believe will be sold. But then he's played enough minutes to warrant inclusion so I'll play fair.

Arteta's squad cost in my eyes right now is £360M. That's including Pepe.

The problem is £219M of that is spread across FOUR, yes FOUR players. Laca, Pepe, Auba and Xhaka. Three of which most likely won't even be here after this summer or the next.

The above is why squad cost is completely flawed, way too many variables in play. Way too many expensive players out of favour. Even Liverpool haven't really played the Ox or Keita for whatever reasons and they take up around £90M of the squad cost...

 

[Kav]

You guys do know that squad cost is attributable to the club and not any individual right? That is what allows it a semblance of credibility because it’s the same for all teams regardless of who the managers are. You would think highly engaged forum members as the above would understand that.

Carry on.

 

[Moah]

OCWID is actually a disease it seems. I pulled this from the NHS website.

Seems fairly serious.

You call someone obsessed and go on to do this?

 

[Makingtrax]

The above is why squad cost is completely flawed

Squad cost is incredibly flawed especially when you have a new manager.

@BigPoppaPump

 

[Macho]

Also means Roberto Di Matteo is the best manager ever. @Jack_the_boy is outright delusional and imo malicious.

I've had him on ignore tbh. Not even worth reading.

We've acquired 18 players since 2018 and less than a third of them have been any good. You can't keep blaming Arsène.

Multiple in the same positions too, it's crazy.

 

[Makingtrax]

I've had him on ignore tbh. Not even worth reading.


Multiple in the same positions too, it's crazy.

8 CBs ffs. Maybe there’s method in the madness, imagine if 6 of them got injured. Bet you never thought of that

 

[Macho]

8 CBs ffs. Maybe there’s method in the madness, imagine if 6 of them got injured. Bet you never thought of that

CB, right sided attacker and midfield has been a chronic problem for us.

 

[Makingtrax]

You guys do know that squad cost is attributable to the club and not any individual right? That is what allows it a semblance of credibility because it’s the same for all teams regardless of who the managers are. You would think highly engaged forum members as the above would understand that.

Carry on.

Chelsea won **** all before Abramovich’s bought them and then won 5 titles in 16 years all because of the different managers. Nothing to do with the quality players they bought with the oil money apparently.

 

[Makingtrax]

One would think being terrorized by one Erlis in a lifetime is enough & then this guy pops up.

We can't catch a break at AM it seems

At least Hairspray has a mate now.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

At least Hairspray has a mate now.

I’m not hairspray’s mate, he spoke negatively of Xhaka. I like Xhaka. Therefore I cannot like his post.

You’ve not answered my point with a credible response.

Arteta cannot be held accountable for players he did not buy or prefer. I want you to make a table of squad cost of players bought under their current managers. So for example the cost of Arteta’s Arsenal is £74m. Then you’ll get a more accurate picture of where we are and where we want to be as part of Arteta’s project. Failures of previous management such as Pepe and Mustafi shouldn’t count against Arteta.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Yet during the Southampton game we saw immediate improvement after Saka and Partey came on. If anything it shows that the football improves with better players on the pitch.

If anything this shows that currently Arteta for whatever reason can't improve us through his tactics and preparations. The fact you only see an improvement after better players came on doesn't exactly give you confidence he can raise the teams overall level. That means relying almost exclusively on just sheer talent to have any hope of a win, rendering the manager's job almost obsolete.

What sets apart the best managers from the average ones is the ability to squeeze so much out their players. We can't put up our arms and proclaim Arteta needs better players everytime we get beaten. It especially looks such a weak argument when the teams beating us haven't even got better players than us. Take for example Southampton in the last game. Some people were moaning we couldn't really expect to win with the likes of Pepe, Willian etc in the starting 11. As we are talking about getting the best out of your players, look the way Hasenhuttl for example is able to make a past it, 31 year old Walcott look like a decent player. Imagine Arteta utilising Walcott like he is Pepe. I can guarantee you he would have been beyond useless if used like that. At the moment that is the difference between Arteta and the better managers. They can squeeze much more out of their players while Arteta can apparently only get a result if a supremely talented player puts in a superb performance.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

If anything this shows that currently Arteta for whatever reason can't improve us through his tactics and preparations. The fact you only see an improvement after better players came on doesn't exactly give you confidence he can raise the teams overall level. That means relying almost exclusively on just sheer talent to have any hope of a win, rendering the manager's job almost obsolete.

What sets apart the best managers from the average ones is the ability to squeeze so much out their players. We can't put up our arms and proclaim Arteta needs better players everytime we get beaten. It especially looks such a weak argument when the teams beating us haven't even got better players than us. Take for example Southampton in the last game. Some people were moaning we couldn't really expect to win with the likes of Pepe, Willian etc in the starting 11. As we are talking about getting the best out of your players, look the way Hasenhuttl for example is able to make a past it, 31 year old Walcott look like a decent player. Imagine Arteta utilising Walcott like he is Pepe. I can guarantee you he would have been beyond useless if used like that. At the moment that is the difference between Arteta and the better managers. They can squeeze much more out of their players while Arteta can apparently only get a result if a supremely talented player puts in a superb performance.

I think he worded it wrong. It isn't the fact that better players = better performances, I mean that's a given usually. But its more better players AND players that fit his style of football. We've already seen a drastic improvement defensively. I don't know about anyone else but I feel 10x better at the back now.

You'd argue that Willian's experience and skillset makes him a better player than ESR on paper. However ESR is performing a hell of a lot better.

Saka is talented, but Pepe in France was a different animal, on par with the best in the world... who's performing better now?

And don't even start me on our midfield. Arteta's had to use Xhaka, Elneny and Ceballos for the entirety of the season. 3 midfielders who are genuine mid table players at best in the premier league.

You say Arteta can only get a result when supremely talented players put in superb performances but that simply isn't true. Its ESR, Saka, Tierney, Mari, Gabriel, Leno and to some extent Holding who have been our best performers this season. None of which are anywhere near being world class yet and they have a cost of around £70M between them.

So to say that Arteta is only going to do better with supremely talented players is bullshit, because he's already doing better simply with players who suit his style that aren't yet world class.

 

[GoonerJay24]

Arsenal’s squad cost of 5th used to be Arsène’s squad cost because he bought all those players. Our squad cost right now is not Arteta’s squad cost, it’s not his players, bar a handful.
The £72m cost of Pepe shouldn’t count against Arteta, he never bought him. Highly doubt he would’ve allowed it had he been in charge.

Wenger was great, but if you’re judging Arteta the comparison should be fair. Arteta’s squad cost is £74m, not fifth.

That doesn't make sense. They are still good players that Arteta needs to coach.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

That doesn't make sense. They are still good players that Arteta needs to coach.

Rubbish, that's like saying Klopp should've coached Mignolet, Lovren, Clyne and co better in his early days instead of signing players who fit what he wants to do.

Every top level manager at a top level club needs his own players to implement his own style.

 

[Jack_the_boy]

That doesn't make sense. They are still good players that Arteta needs to coach.

There’s good and there’s bad players. But I want to see him with his own team. One with players he’s bought or bought up from the academy. He needs the backing and patience to get his own team.