Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Macho]

You've quite clearly seen the difference when we start Saka and ESR to when we start Willian. And to be honest I think its just having a quality number 10 that's making the real difference, which is what I've been saying for months.

We just needed confidence and a proper number 10, and its showing. We don't really have any superstar players who can do something from nothing, Saka is the closest thing we have and is taking on that role.

I don't think our attackers are crap though and I've gone against most of the forum on this even on our darkest days, rest of the league would kill for some of our options.

In turn, the attackers dominating the first half of the league we wouldn't have wanted a lot of them here anyways.

I just don't think Mikel is the best at maximising what he has, which is the opposite of the propaganda that was spreading when he was first appointed.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

I don't think our attackers are crap though and I've gone against most of the forum on this even on our darkest days, rest of the league would kill for some of our options.

In turn, the attackers dominating the first half of the league we wouldn't have wanted a lot of them here anyways.

I just don't think Mikel is the best at maximising what he has, which is the opposite of the propaganda that was spreading when he was first appointed.

The thing is what have we seen these players do? Especially recently.

• I've watched Lacazette fluff multiple chances to score, he's had so many one on ones and ruined it this season. He's in good form right now, but he wouldn't get into any other top 10 side except West Ham. Are you expecting Arteta to coach Lacazette to finish better? No, he's 29 and just isn't good enough overall. Arteta has him working his balls off every game for most of the game now and he's linking play well now. He's getting the most out of Lacazette.
• Pepe is Mr inconsistent, Bayern Munich didn't sign him because he needs too much space and time, that is coming to fruition. Would any other manager in the league get more out of Pepe?
• Is Arteta telling Willian to run forward, stop, pass back? No, its because his confidence is shot. He's not playing well but he looks like he lacks belief, and this is quite obvious when we see Saka playing in the same role, driving at players and beating players, Saka rarely passes back. So the instruction clearly isn't pass back. Same thing happens with Bellerin, bloke can't drive forward he doesn't have the ability, so he passes backwards but Arteta gets the blame for that.

And then obviously you have Auba who is just in bad form, have no issues with him and he'll come good. He's getting the chances to score now ESR is in the side. But again, what do you expect from Auba without a creative source? Auba can't beat a man, he's not good at dribbling and he isn't an elite passer. Auba is a world class finisher with world class movement but that's about it.

You're trying to say that Arteta could squeeze more out of players who are nearly all quite limited in what they can do. I think he's squeezed the most out of Lacazette, he's doing excellent with Saka, Tierney, Holding and even Xhaka. You can't tell me he isn't squeezing the absolute most out of Xhaka?

In our squad you have players who are champions league worthy, you have players who are top 8 worthy and then you have players who aren't even worthy of the top 10, players that wouldn't get into any other top 10 side at the moment.

 

[Macho]

You're trying to say that Arteta could squeeze more out of players who are nearly all quite limited in what they can do. I think he's squeezed the most out of Lacazette, he's doing excellent with Saka, Tierney, Holding and even Xhaka. You can't tell me he isn't squeezing the absolute most out of Xhaka?

Exactly what I am saying, a better coach would get more out of a lot of these guys in my opinion.

Laca the two one on ones that stick out in your mind was Liverpool and Southampton - both games where he still scored but typically only the misses matter to some. His conversion rate is still amongst the high end in the league.

Saka has fluffed a number of one on ones and you wouldn't call him a limited player, so yeah hard disagree for me.

Pepe has been absolutely ruined and has no future here, some of it is because of his own deficiencies but getting Willian to squash him was really unnecessary.

There's just loads of things I've repeated many times and I can't be bothered but convincing the world that this team was relegation to save his own neck is exactly why I just don't rate Arteta.

 

[Maybe]

Other people who support Arteta reading this and thinking...

Think he did cost us some points this season with his stupidity. Funny thing is that the same changes he has made were the ones that fans were asking for, but what do fans know.
I'll say just by accepting he was wrong is enough for me to give him a pass for this season, no matter how it ends.
Hopefully, sexy football with younger players will be on the table in the future

 

[goonergaz]

The thing is what have we seen these players do? Especially recently.

• I've watched Lacazette fluff multiple chances to score, he's had so many one on ones and ruined it this season. He's in good form right now, but he wouldn't get into any other top 10 side except West Ham. Are you expecting Arteta to coach Lacazette to finish better? No, he's 29 and just isn't good enough overall. Arteta has him working his balls off every game for most of the game now and he's linking play well now. He's getting the most out of Lacazette.
• Pepe is Mr inconsistent, Bayern Munich didn't sign him because he needs too much space and time, that is coming to fruition. Would any other manager in the league get more out of Pepe?
• Is Arteta telling Willian to run forward, stop, pass back? No, its because his confidence is shot. He's not playing well but he looks like he lacks belief, and this is quite obvious when we see Saka playing in the same role, driving at players and beating players, Saka rarely passes back. So the instruction clearly isn't pass back. Same thing happens with Bellerin, bloke can't drive forward he doesn't have the ability, so he passes backwards but Arteta gets the blame for that.

And then obviously you have Auba who is just in bad form, have no issues with him and he'll come good. He's getting the chances to score now ESR is in the side. But again, what do you expect from Auba without a creative source? Auba can't beat a man, he's not good at dribbling and he isn't an elite passer. Auba is a world class finisher with world class movement but that's about it.

You're trying to say that Arteta could squeeze more out of players who are nearly all quite limited in what they can do. I think he's squeezed the most out of Lacazette, he's doing excellent with Saka, Tierney, Holding and even Xhaka. You can't tell me he isn't squeezing the absolute most out of Xhaka?

In our squad you have players who are champions league worthy, you have players who are top 8 worthy and then you have players who aren't even worthy of the top 10, players that wouldn't get into any other top 10 side at the moment.

What I don't get with Willian is that he's been there and got the t-shirt. Why is his confidence shot? Why can't he just get over it?

I'm not saying the back passing is coming from Arteta, but what if it is? What if the older players are doing as they're told but the younger players (with less fear and more desire to prove a point) are not following instructions and being more attacking?

To be clear, I'm on Artetas side, he's not had long enough to work with the players to undo the mess over the past (god knows how many) years. And we know there will be ups and downs...it's just there's lot's a things that have happened that are really quite worrying (devaluing players and paying over the odds for poor performers).

It's also the style of football which is stuttering but maybe beginning to get there...tomorrow is a massive match, they will be hurt from that loss so we have to be careful of the backlash - but this is a good test which could see us (if we win) just 7 points off last weeks league leaders...who'd a thunk that a month ago!

Edit - thought it worth noting, we struggled against both Newcastle and Southampton in the the first matches and rolled them over a few days later each time...maybe encouraging signs of ability to learn and improve?

 

[Oxeki]

One positive is that he's made us solid. We now make teams work hard before they can score against us.


In the past we would have been the top of pile in terms of error leading to goals but for the first time since I can remember I have lots of confidence in our defense even though our defenders individually aren't great.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

What I don't get with Willian is that he's been there and got the t-shirt. Why is his confidence shot? Why can't he just get over it?

I'm not saying the back passing is coming from Arteta, but what if it is? What if the older players are doing as they're told but the younger players (with less fear and more desire to prove a point) are not following instructions and being more attacking?

To be clear, I'm on Artetas side, he's not had long enough to work with the players to undo the mess over the past (god knows how many) years. And we know there will be ups and downs...it's just there's lot's a things that have happened that are really quite worrying (devaluing players and paying over the odds for poor performers).

It's also the style of football which is stuttering but maybe beginning to get there...tomorrow is a massive match, they will be hurt from that loss so we have to be careful of the backlash - but this is a good test which could see us (if we win) just 7 points off last weeks league leaders...who'd a thunk that a month ago!

Edit - thought it worth noting, we struggled against both Newcastle and Southampton in the the first matches and rolled them over a few days later each time...maybe encouraging signs of ability to learn and improve?

I mean that would be kinda tin hat gang. I just can't see it, the difference maker is a quality number 10. It frees up the wider players and adds an option in the middle. Its all down to movement, work rate and quality on the ball in there and ESR has it all, hence why we are playing better.

 

[Baguette]

Lampard, during his bad run, kept deflecting blame. Blamed his players, blamed the media, blamed everyone but himself basically.

Arteta during his bad run accepted responsibility and blame for everything, even if it wasn’t his fault, and has always been humble. Always answered journalists respectfully too.

He has all the makings of someone who is or will become a top top manager.

 

[berric]

Lampard, during his bad run, kept deflecting blame. Blamed his players, blamed the media, blamed everyone but himself basically.

Arteta during his bad run accepted responsibility and blame for everything, even if it wasn’t his fault, and has always been humble. Always answered journalists respectfully too.

He has all the makings of someone who is or will become a top top manager.

Meanwhile Arteta: Pepe let the team down.

However, don't think it's too bad as long as he's willing to learn. At first he started beliving his own hype but that disaster run might've humbled him and desperation made him realize that making changes and accepting mistakes can sometimes save your ass.

 

[Baguette]

Meanwhile Arteta: Pepe let the team down.

However, don't think it's too bad as long as he's willing to learn. At first he started beliving his own hype but that disaster run might've humbled him and desperation made him realize that making changes and accepting mistakes can sometimes save your ass.

It’s literally all he said after a red card. He said worse when Xhaka got sent off yet people say Xhaka is his favourite player.

 

[berric]

It’s literally all he said after a red card. He said worse when Xhaka got sent off yet people say Xhaka is his favourite player.

Did he? I seem to remember he pulled the brakes on criticism and wasn't harsh on Xhaka.

If he did, then he threw Xhaka under the bus as well, so it's not like he absorbs all the blame.

 

[Baguette]

Did he? I seem to remember he pulled the brakes on criticism and wasn't harsh on Xhaka.

If he did, then he threw Xhaka under the bus as well, so it's not like he absorbs all the blame.

Anyone who gets a red for unprofessionalism lets the team down.
What he said after the Xhaka red: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-xhaka-arsenal-burnley?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I think the narrative was that Arteta always threw Pepe under the bus and didn’t like him but (like many narratives) that was completely false. He started Pepe immediately after the red.

 

[Trilly]

Özil, Ramsey and an on fire Aubameyang were performing for Emery,

Man said Özil was performing for Emery. El oh el.

 

[Baguette]

Man said Özil was performing for Emery. El oh el.

First half of his first season he was. That Xhaka, Torreira and Özil partnership was doing really well. Injuries broke it up then it never recovered after that, save for Ramsey with some match winning performances.

 

[goonergaz]

I mean that would be kinda tin hat gang. I just can't see it, the difference maker is a quality number 10. It frees up the wider players and adds an option in the middle. Its all down to movement, work rate and quality on the ball in there and ESR has it all, hence why we are playing better.

I hope so, it would certainly make sense that Arteta would prefer to play more attacking and 'the Arsenal way', it just seems we generally show far too much respect to the opposition - especially lower league teams and this seems to slow our attack down which results in defences getting too organised.

Recently the youngsters with their more attacking nature has improved this. Of course having a decent No.10 is also true...

 

[Trilly]

Pepe is Mr inconsistent, Bayern Munich didn't sign him because he needs too much space and time, that is coming to fruition. Would any other manager in the league get more out of Pepe?

Btw the only people who have ever said this, are kicker and I can’t even find proof that they actually said this.

Have a google search and all you see is evidence that Bayern were keen on him for pretty much the whole season then didn’t sign him, this face saving report, that might not even be true, then comes out.

I’ve tried to find anyone even half decently reliable run this story and I can’t. Wouldn’t lean so heavily on it for your defence when it could just be more BS.

 

[MikeVinna]

Özil instantly looked better under Arteta. Well until he got banished that is.

 

[Iceman10]

How are you concerned about Guendouzi? He's now been through 3+ teams and started **** in all of them. And he's really not good enough nor Arsenal in a position for him to get Diva treatement.

As I stated in my original comment to which I afterwards replied to a reply, it is in the context of asset values.

I do remain concerned about Arteta’s man management, but tine will tell if he has been right to significantly dent valuations of certain assets (players) at the club so much for the sake of overall training and dressing room culture.

If Arteta doesn’t like a player, that is fine, but he should also make sure if he wants rid of that player he hasn’t done things such as be so transparent over his concerns about the player so as to make it hard to sell the player for a price acceptable to the club. The harder it becomes to offload players, the longer drawn out these sagas are also.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Btw the only people who have ever said this, are kicker and I can’t even find proof that they actually said this.

Have a google search and all you see is evidence that Bayern were keen on him for pretty much the whole season then didn’t sign him, this face saving report, that might not even be true, then comes out.

I’ve tried to find anyone even half decently reliable run this story and I can’t. Wouldn’t lean so heavily on it for your defence when it could just be more BS.

But surely your eyes can see even if the story is BS the sentiment is correct?

 

[Iceman10]

Should also add, and this is in general, not aimed at any specific individuals here. My original comment started like this:

I’m just a bit on the conservative side in terms of general resistance against chopping and changing managers if the risk is the next manager will be hated by the same faction of fans baying for blood in the present within 12-18 months. I also take into account severance costs as those hit our transfer budgets.

That said, I knew when Arsène Wenger’s and Unai Emery’s time was up, and thought Arteta’s future was in the balance after the loss against Burnley, but my view remains to assess Arteta at the end of the season, and if he hasn’t qualified for EL he has underachieved. .

(I) When I say I am “on the conservative side” this just means steady against fickleness. We all need to remember that if Arteta did not win the last match at St Mary’s there would be a lot of baying for blood in this thread right now on the back of the FA Cup exit also. If we lose against United on the weekend I expect there will be a lot of people wading in here again calling Arteta an idiot, and much worse,

(ii) To overcome this general issue of fickleness therefore I will neither wax lyrical about Arteta in absolute terms or say he is an idiot based on fine margins of the last match, or even last few matches. The target for me is min. EL qualification for next season, and Arteta will be assessed at the end of this season, because we all know it is highly unlikely he will be sacked in any scenario prior to then. I am just observing Arteta, attributing some “unknowns” to analyse, and over time these “unknowns” will reduce based on observations.