Mikel Arteta: The Real Deal

[Blood on the Tracks]

Btw in case someone gets the wrong idea - I do think if Slot wins the title (and gets less than 100 points…) then Tets will be a bit mudded. What Slot has done already is frankly incredible. Following a legend is never easy and he’s made it look light work.

His appearance frankly made it easy to write him off initially but he’s the real deal. Normally I’d say I expect him to win the league within the next few years but with their contract issues in the squad and FSG being what they are idk.

Not knocking Slott at all but he has inherited a very good squad. He's managed it brilliantly so fair play to him.

But he's not had the depth of injury woes of Arsenal or Man City and they've had a relatively kind fixture list to date.

I'd bet money now that Liverpool don't win the PL.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

It’s not difficult in that scenario. If Slot gets a hundy then he’s an all time great basically. Arteta whilst a very good manager isn’t that. There’s no shame in it.

What would be difficult is trying to work out why Arsenal fans feel entitled to having a GOAT level manager. They don’t exactly grow on trees…

We had a chance at getting Klopp if Arsène left a year earlier. Right now I don’t see any alternatives to Arteta other than a gamble like Slot that may or not pan out.

Agree on this. Maybe its time for Arteta after this season somebody else will judge that. But changing managers is also tricky and can go in wrong direction.

 

[fute]

Slot has had injuries. You just don't hear about it a lot because he moves forward and next man up. Konate is out. Trent just got back from injury. Jota is out. Alisson is out. Bradley and Tsimikas are out now.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Btw in case someone gets the wrong idea - I do think if Slot wins the title (and gets less than 100 points…) then Tets will be a bit mudded. What Slot has done already is frankly incredible. Following a legend is never easy and he’s made it look light work.

If he wins the league with complete squad of Klopp players isnt it then Klopp who won it?

 

[fute]

If he wins the league with complete squad of Klopp players isnt it then Klopp who won it?

He improved players Klopp didn't in his last year: Gakpo (at his natural position in LW instead of striker), Gravenberch (different position), and Jones. All have been instrumental in their success this year.

 

[Rasmi]

Slot has had injuries. You just don't hear about it a lot because he moves forward and next man up. Konate is out. Trent just got back from injury. Jota is out. Alisson is out. Bradley and Tsimikas are out now.

He definitely is way more positive person than Arteta. Maybe it’s because he’s new. But Arteta when things are not going well is horrible. Acts like lunatic on the sideline. Impossible to interview because he interrupts every question and answer it while the interviewer hasn’t finished the question. But 3 wins this week and he acts half decent again

 

[db10_therza]

I'd bet money now that Liverpool don't win the PL.

I mean they’re odds on. Just do it then. Big man…

 

[Bucephalus]

Slot has had injuries. You just don't hear about it a lot because he moves forward and next man up. Konate is out. Trent just got back from injury. Jota is out. Alisson is out. Bradley and Tsimikas are out now.

There's injuries and there's injuries. Sure, Alisson is out, but they have the best backup keeper in the league, who would probably start for about 16 other teams. The rest are nice, but not crucial. Only injuries to VVD or Salah would be comparable to losing Rodri (City) or Ødegaard (us).

 

[db10_therza]

But changing managers is also tricky and can go in wrong direction.

I mean there’s pretty large sample size of results that says most manager changes at the top level don’t result in success. The reason AM thinks this isn’t the case is just confirmation bias.

 

[db10_therza]

There's injuries and there's injuries. Sure, Alisson is out, but they have the best backup keeper in the league, who would probably start for about 16 other teams. The rest are nice, but not crucial. Only injuries to VVD or Salah would be comparable to losing Rodri (City) or Ødegaard (us).

Trent is a big player for them tbf, but that Bradley lad is quality. I agree though, and really it’s just Salah for me. If he stays fit and firing for the rest of the campaign then they probably win the league.

 

[fute]

There's injuries and there's injuries. Sure, Alisson is out, but they have the best backup keeper in the league, who would probably start for about 16 other teams. The rest are nice, but not crucial. Only injuries to VVD or Salah would be comparable to losing Rodri (City) or Ødegaard (us).

There is managing and there's managing.

Injuries are part of the game. It is how you deal with injuries. Salah was out for a period last year and Klopp had his best run of games with Salah, Trent, and Alisson all out. He had Elliott, Bradley playing.

In either scenario, neither Klopp nor Slot shut everything down and put handbrakes on the team and said 'we can't play because so and so is out. Let's hope for a set-piece goal and call it a day'.

 

[Bagels]

If he wins the league with complete squad of Klopp players isnt it then Klopp who won it?

It would be really, really funny seeing some people try to explain this one away

 

[Trilly]

It’s not difficult in that scenario. If Slot gets a hundy then he’s an all time great basically. Arteta whilst a very good manager isn’t that. There’s no shame in it.

What would be difficult is trying to work out why Arsenal fans feel entitled to having a GOAT level manager. They don’t exactly grow on trees…

If they hypothetically get a 100 point season I think it would be less about entitlement and more about seeing that it is indeed possible to beat City at their best.

Maybe it’s just an A-M narrative and not a wider one but there’s a general sentiment that nobody else could better challenge Pep than Arteta. Somebody coming in and doing better than Mikel in his first attempt would reopen the ‘how many other managers could do better given the same backing and patience’ debate, think it would also fiercely reignite the ‘we need someone else to push us on’ debate if the club truly wants to win the big trophies.

 

[Entropics]

He definitely is way more positive person than Arteta. Maybe it’s because he’s new. But Arteta when things are not going well is horrible. Acts like lunatic on the sideline. Impossible to interview because he interrupts every question and answer it while the interviewer hasn’t finished the question. But 3 wins this week and he acts half decent again

We shouldn't be more brittle than them if they have their main GK out, have had one of their most important players in TAA out for a while, and have a funny midfield.

Someone injures Saka and it feels like we would have 2 free hit seasons out of it.

 

[shoot for the top]

There's injuries and there's injuries. Sure, Alisson is out, but they have the best backup keeper in the league, who would probably start for about 16 other teams. The rest are nice, but not crucial. Only injuries to VVD or Salah would be comparable to losing Rodri (City) or Ødegaard (us).

Liverpool has conceded 8 goals with Allison out half of the games. While Odegarrd was out, we had people calling us Stoke 2.0. There is a major difference in how Slot uses his team vs. Teta.

 

[SA Gunner]

It’s good to look at context and the micro factors but taking a step back and taking a macro view is also important.

I’ll NEVER rate Mikel if he allows finished/easy games/Klopp-tax/Lucky etc. Liverpool to win the title with a manager in his first season.

There’s no defending that.

Would you rate Klopp? Slot basically comes in and does what he failed to do for 7 out of 8 seasons?

What if Liverpool suffer a key injury that keeps the player out for 10-12 weeks of the season, allowing Arsenal to take the lead in the title race?

Does that make you rate Arteta again?

I think these in season factors are what gave Slot a good platform to take the lead in the league, in addition to his managerial quality. Not some magical ability he has over Pep and Arteta.

I think we are all frustrated if we don’t make it to the title this season, due to how close we’ve come and what we’ve build our side up to be over the last few years. We have the right to be angry and be Arteta out.

But… When it comes to judging Arteta’s work, I think let’s take out the emotional aspects and personal gripes.

There should be enough in his technical management that allows you to make a call on whether you rate him or not. And if looking at that you still don’t think Arteta is good enough, or ever will be… then fair enough.

 

[SA Gunner]

Slot has had injuries. You just don't hear about it a lot because he moves forward and next man up. Konate is out. Trent just got back from injury. Jota is out. Alisson is out. Bradley and Tsimikas are out now.

Yet Salah isn’t out neither is VVD out.

There is a difference in losing your key players versus losing players.

Arsenal have had TP, Rice, Gabriel, Martinelli, Trossard, Timber, White, Calafiori, Tomiyasu all out for times this season already.

But like Pep missing Rodri, we fell once we lost Ødegaard and Saka.

The internal questions should be why we couldn’t adapt with our key players gone. And while we’re at it… let’s extend that question to Pep as well.

Thats not even considering the targeted attacks from referees this season. But I leave that aside for now and focus on the club.

We could have done better in those 10 weeks, and stayed high up the table. However before we proclaim that we Arteta is a failure, let’s take stock of everything that has transpired over the opening 4 months of the season.

There is enough to criticize and question Arteta on. Let’s paint the full picture though.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

I wonder how this forum would have looked under Graham. Obviously Alan Smith would have been slaughtered. Kevin Richardson would not have passed scrutiny, and that would perhaps have been fair. The forum would have rounded on Colin Pates for sure and Andy Linighan.

Overall, not sure many of the title winning sides would have passed muster by AM's lofty standards.

Graham's a legend twice over & a winner that had that ruthlessness to replace ineffectual plsyers for thr better of the team instead of making excuses as to why he came short.

Tets can only dream of having a reign the likes of the one he had.

 

[fute]

Yet Salah isn’t out neither is VVD out.

There is a difference in losing your key players versus losing players.

Arsenal have had TP, Rice, Gabriel, Martinelli, Trossard, Timber, White, Calafiori, Tomiyasu all out for times this season already.

But like Pep missing Rodri, we fell once we lost Ødegaard and Saka.

The internal questions should be why we couldn’t adapt with our key players gone. And while we’re at it… let’s extend that question to Pep as well.

Thats not even considering the targeted attacks from referees this season. But I leave that aside for now and focus on the club.

We could have done better in those 10 weeks, and stayed high up the table. However before we proclaim that we Arteta is a failure, let’s take stock of everything that has transpired over the opening 4 months of the season.

There is enough to criticize and question Arteta on. Let’s paint the full picture though.

Slot had injuries and dealt with them accordingly.

Not a big deal for him thus far, as it seems it is for others.

 

[shoot for the top]

Yet Salah isn’t out neither is VVD out.

There is a difference in losing your key players versus losing players.

Arsenal have had TP, Rice, Gabriel, Martinelli, Trossard, Timber, White, Calafiori, Tomiyasu all out for times this season already.

But like Pep missing Rodri, we fell once we lost Ødegaard and Saka.

The internal questions should be why we couldn’t adapt with our key players gone. And while we’re at it… let’s extend that question to Pep as well.

Thats not even considering the targeted attacks from referees this season. But I leave that aside for now and focus on the club.

We could have done better in those 10 weeks, and stayed high up the table. However before we proclaim that we Arteta is a failure, let’s take stock of everything that has transpired over the opening 4 months of the season.

There is enough to criticize and question Arteta on. Let’s paint the full picture though.

Pep has struggled, but he wasn't only missing Rodri! KDB has been missing just as much as Ødegaard! It is like saying, what happens if Arteta is without Saka and Ødegaard!