Mikel Arteta: The Real Deal

[HattoriHanzo]

Don’t think @HattoriHanzo ’s opinions are that controversial.

He’s just saying that Ancelotti could have done more at Milan, the convo isn’t about him being good or even a world class manager. If it’s about being the GOAT, you’re allowed to have super high standards.

My opinion is not so controversial among AC Milan fans.
Opinions are divided, of course, but stats don't lie.
The fact is that Capello is the most successful manager of Berlusconi era.
He has also won Serie A with Roma in season 2000/01.
He also had 2 shorts stints in Real Madrid, in seasons 1996/97 and 2006/07 and in both occasions he has won La Liga.
The guy was unstoppable when you had to win the title.

 

[outlawz]

Ancelotti has historically faced criticism for his lack of Serie A titles in Italy. It's not a new take.

Now his CL performance...

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Ancelotti has historically faced criticism for his lack of domestic success in Italy. It's not a new take.

In the context of AC Milan who was European juggernaut until late 00s, it is true.
But the guy has won 5 UCL titles, nobody else has done it.
No wonder that the title of his autobiography is "Preferisco la coppa (I prefer the cup)"

And as AC Milan fan I like him and respect him.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Ancelotti has historically faced criticism for his lack of Serie A titles in Italy. It's not a new take.

Now his CL performance...

Yeah back in his Milan days he was thought of as a cup specialist that under achieved with domestic titles.

Definitely a great manager for me though.

 

[Bloodbather]

Yeah back in his Milan days he was thought of as a cup specialist that under achieved with domestic titles.

Definitely a great manager for me though.

Ancelotti is very much a stubborn Plan A manager when it comes to squad use, I think that's where things go wrong with him in the league sometimes where you need more flexibility. He persists with underperformers and doesn't use alternatives often.

Look at him now this season, for example. His insistence on using Lucas Vazquez at RB even though he’s a clear liability, not using Arda Güler as a creative option even though they clearly need one, etc.

 

[Goonger]

How was it accepted that all English clubs be punished because of the actions of Liverpool fans?
I don’t get that.

I think hooliganism was rife in the 70's and 80's. Leeds were banned from Europe for 2 seasons in 1975 as their fans rioted in the European Cup final, Utd fans rioted in St Etienne at a Cup Winners Cup game and had to play the home leg 200km away from their ground among other things, the national team fans were involved in fighting as well.

Hooliganism was also on the rise domestically, and the Prime Minister at the time wanted to put a stop to it. After Heysel she (Thatcher) actually asked the FA to pull clubs out of European competitions, but before they could, UEFA hit them with an indefinite ban. English clubs ended up banned for 5 years, Liverpool were meant to serve an extra 3 year ban but ended up serving just 1.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Ancelotti is very much a stubborn Plan A manager when it comes to squad use, I think that's where things go wrong with him in the league sometimes where you need more flexibility. He persists with underperformers and doesn't use alternatives often.

Look at him now this season, for example. His insistence on using Lucas Vazquez at RB even though he’s a clear liability, not using Arda Güler as a creative option even though they clearly need one, etc.

It is evident that he prefers Brahim Diaz to Guler.
And Diaz was very good when he used him.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Maybe this time there will be some debate about that.



Arsenal doesn't build-up through the middle because they are afraid that they will lose the ball. They don't have the structure to retain the posession of the ball to build-up through the middle.
Question is why?

And they don't have a proper striker, they use midfielders as strikers this season.
Maybe we would have scored more, had we have proper striker.
Second question, why we don't have proper striker?

 

[boonthegoon]

Happy Birthday to world class Super Mik Arteta!

 

[UpTheGunnerz]

Happy Birthday to world class Super Mik Arteta!

Happy birthday Super Mik! Every morning I’m on my bended knees in gratefulness of him being our couch

 

[Sammy1887]

Herbert Chapman, Josip Guardiola and Sir Alex for me Clive

 

[Jasard]

Pretty weird to put Arteta and Ancelotti in the same conversation but didn't it take Ancelotti like 7 years to win his first title? I know the Italian league was about 10x the league the PL is right now but still, I think it took a while for him to even get close? Not great in Europe either I think.

Arsenal are not a giant, we have no god given right to win anything but what there is no excuse for is the absolute terror ball we fall back to so often. How many games this season have actually been enjoyable? The idea that the only way to try and win the PL is to have a load of "defensive forwards" and people debating defensive numbers for a big lump up top is what makes him a bit of a miserable coach.

I think he has plenty of talent as a coach and actually as a team manager now as he seems to get everyone on side but he uses it for evil on the pitch.

 

[Macho]

No one has mentioned chapman as far I can see?

Yeah he is not as classy as chapman or Emery I agree, but I don’t necessarily need my manager to be dat

Where’s arsenal greatest manager, Herbert chapman? Fraudulent list

For me big man Chapman will always be the goat

Herbert Chapman, Josip Guardiola and Sir Alex for me Clive

Brain damage?

It's been 24 hours I think you need to mention Herbert Chapman again.

 

[UpTheGunnerz]

Brain damage?

It's been 24 hours I think you need to mention Herbert Chapman again.

Someone needs to beat on the Chapman drum.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Pretty weird to put Arteta and Ancelotti in the same conversation but didn't it take Ancelotti like 7 years to win his first title? I know the Italian league was about 10x the league the PL is right now but still, I think it took a while for him to even get close? Not great in Europe either I think.

Arsenal are not a giant, we have no god given right to win anything but what there is no excuse for is the absolute terror ball we fall back to so often. How many games this season have actually been enjoyable? The idea that the only way to try and win the PL is to have a load of "defensive forwards" and people debating defensive numbers for a big lump up top is what makes him a bit of a miserable coach.

I think he has plenty of talent as a coach and actually as a team manager now as he seems to get everyone on side but he uses it for evil on the pitch.

Arteta and Ancelotti can't be put in same conversation. Ancelotti has 30 years of managerial career and is top level manager, Arteta has 5 years of experience and is still second rate manager.

You are right also about trophies, Ancelotti has won his first trophies in 2003 (UCL and Italian cup) with AC Milan. AC Milan was his 4th job as a manager, his first job as manager was Reggiana (Serie B) in season 1995/96. He promoted them immediately to Serie A

Arteta has disappointed this season, this is true. Too defensive, struggle to adapt to what is going on the pitch, he ran Saka and Havertz to the ground, he relied too much on set-pieces. Basically regression.

 

[jones]

Pretty weird to put Arteta and Ancelotti in the same conversation but didn't it take Ancelotti like 7 years to win his first title? I know the Italian league was about 10x the league the PL is right now but still, I think it took a while for him to even get close? Not great in Europe either I think.

Arsenal are not a giant, we have no god given right to win anything but what there is no excuse for is the absolute terror ball we fall back to so often. How many games this season have actually been enjoyable? The idea that the only way to try and win the PL is to have a load of "defensive forwards" and people debating defensive numbers for a big lump up top is what makes him a bit of a miserable coach.

I think he has plenty of talent as a coach and actually as a team manager now as he seems to get everyone on side but he uses it for evil on the pitch.

Ancelotti started at smaller clubs and impressed there by almost winning Serie A with Parma who've never won it in their history. Probably would've won it if not for Juventus buying refs, those late 90s were a LOT more dodgy in ref performances than calciopoli days

There's not a single manager comparable to Arteta in how they got their job and kept it. Zidane could be compared in that he got a massive job right away but a) he's Zidane and b) he won the CL three times right away. As for Arteta if I speak I'm in big trouble

 

[Jasard]

Ancelotti started at smaller clubs and impressed there by almost winning Serie A with Parma who've never won it in their history. Probably would've won it if not for Juventus buying refs, those late 90s were a LOT more dodgy in ref performances than calciopoli days

There's not a single manager comparable to Arteta in how they got their job and kept it. Zidane could be compared in that he got a massive job right away but a) he's Zidane and b) he won the CL three times right away. As for Arteta if I speak I'm in big trouble

No problem with him keeping his job getting within a few points of a title in back to back seasons but he's taken steps backwards with his squad building again being ropey and grim football. Can't really get fired for that though the club should have taken responsibility anyone could see what the squad needed to go up a level and instead they allowed it to get smaller.

For me he's probably only got 1 more season to show he's not hit his ceiling, with a different sporting director we'll see how he get's on. The club would give him a lot longer though.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Happy birthday king!

 

[El Realista]

Maybe this time there will be some debate about that.



Arsenal doesn't build-up through the middle because they are afraid that they will lose the ball. They don't have the structure to retain the posession of the ball to build-up through the middle.
Question is why?

And they don't have a proper striker, they use midfielders as strikers this season.
Maybe we would have scored more, had we have proper striker.
Second question, why we don't have proper striker?

Yesterday I watched Arsenal girls and it surprised me how different they play. Constantly played through the middle like in Wenger Arsenal times and make it more visible to me.

I wonder the same and I have the answer to this, because it's a pattern and the constant is called Arteta. His main characteristic is "risk adversion". This leads him to be afraid of playing through the middle, to let wingers more licence to attack and specially Saka ask him to track back so much, the lack of squad rotation, the late subs or even absence of subs even when clear goal advantage until his forced to do, and od course the lack of creativity licence and offball movement and getting to many physical players but not good enough with ball.

All of those things we are struggling is because the guy is so afraid of something getting out of his control. And that's more of psychological problem that is getting through Arsenal than his capability as tactician.

 

[Macho]

Insane Arteta luck as per usual.