Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Makingtrax]

The overall squad cost thought process only applies from the time frame that @Makingtrax invents and tells us. That's just the way it is, because he is the master of squad cost, and naturally you listen and obey the master, and don't question him. He won't answer anyway so...

Squad cost is the total transfer cost of all the players in the 25 man squad. It has no timeframe bro.

The table I linked, showing the amount of money KSE has invested in player purchases since 19/2, is something different and only concerns some of the squad. Which is what I think you’re referring to. What it highlights is KSE’s recent commitment to this manager and team that was sadly lacking previously. Who knows, maybe they’ve decided to dig into all that Champions League money that Wenger earned for the club, that they squirrelled away. Because there hasn’t been much of any European money since 19/20.

 

[dka1]

I would actually argue that we should have kept Arteta as we did. All managers go through bad periods. Klopp is going through a bad period now for his own standards. You even hear Liverpool fans already talk about sacking him. It is usually what teams like Chelsea would do. But Liverpool will be wise to keep Klopp and back him in the market.

I'm glad we stuck with Arteta because the trained eyes and people who know football knew that Arteta is a top-class manager since day one. Other people who don't know that much wanted Conte to come in and work with what he has and try to do something with that. But it's just all bullshit and not how stuff works.

I don't know about all of that, I think it's very easy to say that we made the right decision in hindsight but that first half of the 2020/21 season was some of the worst I've seen us in the PL and at the time he had no built up reputation to fall back on.

The second half of the season was better but we still had games like Villarreal where we looked totally devoid of ideas.

Last year we did really well for periods; the run in the PL from City at home up until Palace away was very good. This season well, we all know how it's going; extremely well.

Hydro's post aside and in terms of answering the question of whether Arteta is a good manager or not, I think we'd really need to see how this season pans out to get a full picture. But if we continue in the way that we're playing, and hit like 2nd/3rd then it's hard to deny that he's very good.

If we mount a propa propa title challenge and stay up there with City till towards the end of the season, then you start looking at him like he could be special.

And look this won't be popular to say, but Arteta just isn't the guy that will take a faltering squad and get it to 4th the way Klopp did. I don't think I'll ever be convinced he's that guy, sorry inners. But what we have seen is that both he and Edu are good at signings.

It's true that we've quite spent a lot, but I'm impressed with the way Edteta have shaped the squad, you have to take your hat off to signings like Jesus, Zinny, Gabi (CB), Ramsdale, Tomi-f*cking-yasu, Ødegaard. Their hit rate since Raul left is underrated IMO and it's a skill and part of the job of being manager.

Also his style of play has all come together really well, and like you can see with his ingredients we are playing some breathtaking football. Plus he does seem to be learning, and I'd be lying of I said him bringing Saliba back into the fold the way he did didn't play a big part in changing my views on him.

I think there will always be things I don't like about the way he manages, I still think he has problems rotating in some players and really keeping them included, and I still don't like how the Auba situation went down.

I won't ever shy away from criticising him if there's something I think he's doing wrong, sorry....but I think it's hard to criticise him currently. He's doing good.

 

[Melquiades]

For a club of Arsenal's size winning four or five in a row shouldn't be especially notable and it didn't use to be. That early unbeaten run last season was littered with poor performances and not nearly as dominant as the start to this season, run started with a fluke win at home to Norwich, got dominated by Brighton, equaliser in injury time vs Palace etc. So yes, it did take us three years to have a real run of good form.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post but it had nothing to do with my post.

EPL table since Christmas 2020 :

City : 55-8-7 172 points
Arsenal : 43-8-19 - 137 points
Liverpool : 41-13-16 136 points
Chelsea 36-20-13 - 128 points
Sp**s : 38-11-21 - 125 points
United : 33-18-18 - 116 points

The last 8 games are certainly the best overall football we've played, but this isn't some anomaly. We've been playing at a high level for almost 2 years, basically since the bad run in the fall of 2020 ended.

 

[dka1]

Do you think he deserved to stay after that run in December? Or that it was normal or what most clubs would do in that situation? Note that this isn't his first season, he's had a second big transfer window behind him and we were 15th at the end of this run.

View attachment 9593

 

[drippin]

Arsenal's PR department after Mikel's Sp**s' interview...

He could have handled it a lot better. And for example I don't understand why he didn't mention how much mocking he has got from his bad long shots, and finally scored.

 

[Makingtrax]

Not really surprising that Arteta meant what he has been through with injuries, and accidentally said "and" rather than "with" in the live interview when English isn't his native language.

Injuries? One of the luckiest managers in the Prem 2 seasons running.

 

[jones]

No that was very poor and sackable.
It was not his second big transfer window though. It was after his first transfer window where we spent something like 70m(Partey and Gabriel) which doesn't seem too excessive.
From then on, it has been pretty much back to the form which we had shown before he came and showing signs of improvement.

You're right, wanted to put "first big" then decided to write just "second", ended up with second big.

What does "back to the form before he came" mean? We finished his first season in midtable, we finished that season midtable. Bar Xhaka this season I don't think any of our players has significantly improved under Arteta so far, so the original point of our improvement coming from the financial backing he's received still stands.

Unless your point is you wanted Arteta to get credit for picking those players we bought. In which case he did a great scouting job, we paid through the nose for some but they're largely good to very good players and some like Ramsdale I definitely didn't expect to come good for us (based on his early form at least)

 

[drippin]

Squad cost is the total transfer cost of all the players in the 25 man squad. It has no timeframe bro.

The table I linked, showing the amount of money KSE has invested in player purchases since 19/2, is something different and only concerns some of the squad. Which is what I think you’re referring to. What it highlights is KSE’s recent commitment to this manager and team that was sadly lacking previously. Who knows, maybe they’ve decided to dig into all that Champions League money that Wenger earned for the club, that they squirrelled away. Because there hasn’t been much of any European money since 19/20.

There hasn't been much European money since Wenger finished twice below top 4.

Exactly, that's why it looks ridiculous that you bring up constantly how much money Arteta has used, when it's only to catch up others. And start it when Arteta wasn't even the manager.

While there hasn't been many players he can sell for big money because of the squad he inherited from earlier managers, while in the list you put, other clubs have been able to make those sales so it looks worse for Arteta.

Btw. Kroenke's bought all the shares of Arsenal 7th August 2018, and the transfer window ended 9th August 2018. Why aren't you starting it from there?

 

[drippin]

Injuries? One of the luckiest managers in the Prem 2 seasons running.

Now you're saying Partey hasn't had many injuries? Look at you go! You're unstoppable!

 

[db10_therza]

Let's try give Arteta all the credit then - why did it take three years for us to have a sustained run of good form if the money spent isn't the reason?

This sums up what’s wrong here tbh. Everything is all or nothing. There’s no room for shades of gray, nuance, intelligent discussion. Should get @albakos to change the colour scheme to black and white…

 

[boonthegoon]

Do you think he deserved to stay after that run in December? Or that it was normal or what most clubs would do in that situation? Note that this isn't his first season, he's had a second big transfer window behind him and we were 15th at the end of this run.

View attachment 9593

This was his first full season. Idk why you guys keep adding the emery sacked half season to him. If I remember correctly we were 5th since the time he took over in that season and also won fa cup which gave him some leeway.

We didn't spend that much in the that window.
We decided to give the job to a rookie. So 1 bad run doesn't warrant a sacking. He was learning on the job. Also this was football with covid. Yes all managers and clubs got affected but it is worse for arteta given that he's already learning on the job and has to work with covid issues as well.

Most importantly he didn't lose the dressing room. So I was fine with not sacking him.

Now if he repeated anything close to that run one more time, I'd have sacked him. Since then he hasn't and we have seen clear progress.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

For a club of Arsenal's size winning four or five in a row shouldn't be especially notable and it didn't use to be. That early unbeaten run last season was littered with poor performances and not nearly as dominant as the start to this season, run started with a fluke win at home to Norwich, got dominated by Brighton, equaliser in injury time vs Palace etc. So yes, it did take us three years to have a real run of good form.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post but it had nothing to do with my post.

The Invincibles only won 4 or more games in a row twice during that season.
Any team that wins 4 or more on the bounce is in a very good run of form.
Last season we did it 4 times.

 

[jones]

EPL table since Christmas 2020 :

City : 55-8-7 172 points
Arsenal : 43-8-19 - 137 points
Liverpool : 41-13-16 136 points
Chelsea 36-20-13 - 128 points
Sp**s : 38-11-21 - 125 points
United : 33-18-18 - 116 points

The last 8 games are certainly the best overall football we've played, but this isn't some anomaly. We've been playing at a high level for almost 2 years, basically since the bad run in the fall of 2020 ended.

Why would you exclude our worst run that took literally half a season to try find out what our "normal" non-anomaly level is? 8 wins out of 9 if you include the EL game is definitely the best run we've seen under Arteta, it's not really debatable. It's genuinely a good run for any team, you need to drop your complexes I'm not trying to **** on your man here.

Also genuine question did you compile that list yourself or is there some website for it? Liverpool e.g. lost just twice last season, they had a **** year before that but I struggle to see where they've lost 14 more matches.

 

[samspade]

How are you such a big Arteta fan then considering how cold blooded to use your term he ditched almost the entire squad of 2019? Or is this courtesy extended only to the current squad?

Well I don’t really look for a manager to be like me. A manager is going to have to be pretty ruthless to be successful.

I wasn’t particularly attached to most of the 2019 players. I was disappointed to see Pepe fail. I wasn’t a great fan of Guendouzi. I liked Auba but poor performances over a long period started to frustrate me. Couldn’t give much of a **** about the defence. Didn’t particularly care about the mf either. I disliked Özil pretty intensely. Wasn’t a huge fan of Xhaka. I just didn’t care about that team.
Some of the players who haven’t succeeded are disappointing but you get over it, particularly when you can see the fruits of what we’re doing so clearly on the pitch. I like our current team a lot.
I also loved Wilshere, Ramsey, rousicky, Cesc Rvp to name a few from earlier teams

I think Arteta’s decent enough as a person, not the type of person I gravitate to. I’m more the sort of person who enjoys Wenger type company, I like philosophical discussion, I don’t like platitudes and buzz words, I appreciate insight and original thinking.

Mostly I just like what Arteta and Arsenal are actually doing— raising young players to play expansive, dominant football, to play some of the best football in europe.

 

[blrgooner]

You're right, wanted to put "first big" then decided to write just "second", ended up with second big.

What does "back to the form before he came" mean? We finished his first season in midtable, we finished that season midtable. Bar Xhaka this season I don't think any of our players has significantly improved under Arteta so far, so the original point of our improvement coming from the financial backing he's received still stands.

Unless your point is you wanted Arteta to get credit for picking those players we bought. In which case he did a great scouting job, we paid through the nose for some but they're largely good to very good players and some like Ramsdale I definitely didn't expect to come good for us (based on his early form at least)

What i meant by going back to the form was that we were performing at top 4-6level at least which is where we were when Arteta came.
The first season midtable finish as i have already mentioned before was down to the pathetic form we had before he joined. Just as an example, of Arteta had been sacked in Dec2020 and let's say Potter would have taken over and we had finished 8th, i would not go around saying that Potter finished 8th that season. I think that's a disingenuous argument.
With regards to individual players, in my opinion i don't feel the necessity to give credit of one player to one coach. I don't think things work that way. Thus, i can think of many players who have improved beyond recognition in the current regime. Xhaka, Saka, Martinelli, ESR and Eddie for example. For me, the fact that they had made their debut earlier is irrelevant. They were definitely not there players they are today.

 

[jones]

This sums up what’s wrong here tbh. Everything is all or nothing. There’s no room for shades of gray, nuance, intelligent discussion. Should get @albakos to change the colour scheme to black and white…

This sums up what's wrong with your reading ability. The whole post was sarcastic because blrgoon kept banging on how no credit was given to Arteta when there's virtually no one in this thread doing that, but how any qualifier on top of him getting credit - ie he did well spending ****loads of money - is considered an affront.

Look at @samspade with his endless hypotheticals ffs. Only reason this thread still keeps racking up pages is because some of you aren't happy until you hear the shahada.

 

[jones]

This was his first full season. Idk why you guys keep adding the emery sacked half season to him. If I remember correctly we were 5th since the time he took over in that season and also won fa cup which gave him some leeway.

I stated as much in the past, I don't hold his first half season against him even if we hadn't won the FA Cup. However he has to carry full responsibility for the first full season he started, my point was he wasn't hired in the summer and that horrid run wasn't during his first months in charge

 

[db10_therza]

This sums up what's wrong with your reading ability. The whole post was sarcastic because blrgoon kept banging on how no credit was given to Arteta when there's virtually no one in this thread doing that, but how any qualifier on top of him getting credit - ie he did well spending ****loads of money - is considered an affront.

Look at @samspade with his endless hypotheticals ffs. Only reason this thread still keeps racking up pages is because some of you aren't happy until you hear the shahada.

Last line proper cracked me up Ngl. Fair play

 

[Deleted member 102404]

Why would you exclude our worst run that took literally half a season to try find out what our "normal" non-anomaly level is? 8 wins out of 9 if you include the EL game is definitely the best run we've seen under Arteta, it's not really debatable. It's genuinely a good run for any team, you need to drop your complexes I'm not trying to **** on your man here.

Also genuine question did you compile that list yourself or is there some website for it? Liverpool e.g. lost just twice last season, they had a **** year before that but I struggle to see where they've lost 14 more matches.

How is the points accumulated over 70 games an anomaly?
That run doesn't actually show things properly, granted. I mean we were 5th last season, not 2nd.
However, it does show again that our issue has been putting together that kind of form consistently in one season. It's not that we have been unable to rack up points over a sustained period of time.

 

[jones]

The Invincibles only won 4 or more games in a row twice during that season.
Any team that wins 4 or more on the bounce is in a very good run of form.
Last season we did it 4 times.

The Invincibles also didn't lose a single game all season, and one of those runs lasted nine wins in a row. Last season we lost 13 games, that's almost as many as we did between 2001 and 2005.

Four wins in a row typically happens in four weeks, sometimes less. Our current form has started in August and is lasting now until October - do you really not see a difference or are you just arguing for the sake of it?