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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
5-0 up at half time is pretty much the ideal situation to do that, not sure that's some outrageous take.

Didn't say it was, just chimed in with the stuff I've read about player development. There isn't a lot of direct developmental benefits in being thrown on in a won game but there are obviously some intangible benefits in terms of exciting the fans, potentially lifting the spirit of the player etc. My point was Arteta not giving Nwaneri minutes in that exact moment isn't some damnable offense, but I do understand why it'd be disappointing to the fans.

The fact that he is way to hesitant to give the young players minutes in the league cup where they could be more directly involved from the start is much more worrisome in my opinion. I suppose if you're already worried and upset about Arteta's handling of youth prospects and lump this situation in with that overall picture then I can see why it would be another red flag, but in a vacuum I didn't see it as a problem.
 

UpTheGunnerz

Vrei sa pleci dar una una iei

Player:Elneny
His way has led us to being competitive in the top and a great position in the CL.

Don’t care what any highway leads, it can’t lead to any paradise better than that. So what if some victims (players) had to be sacrificed/binned off.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
Every time I hear constant malding about how Arteta is a bad manager I just check whatever league table we're involved in.

In fairness, with the exception of a couple of obvious over the top trolls, I think everyone at this point has acknowledged he's a good manager.

Most if not all the discussion these days seems to have pivoted towards how much someone enjoys the style of play etc. The results can't really be argued with as you said, but I think not finding the football itself super enjoyable is a very fair criticism that also extends beyond just Mikel, given his approach isn't necessarily unique.

I don't enjoy Mikel's brand of ball, same way I don't enjoy Pep's teams. It suffocates the game, by design. But it's obviously effective and I think separating "I don't enjoy this" and "this approach is bad/Mikel sucks" is important when discussing how happy you are with the current regime.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
In fairness, with the exception of a couple of obvious over the top trolls, I think everyone at this point has acknowledged he's a good manager.

Correct and I’m glad you see this.

I haven’t seen this level of consensus since peak Wenger when there was no internet or widely available data (so less scrutiny).
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
In fairness, with the exception of a couple of obvious over the top trolls, I think everyone at this point has acknowledged he's a good manager.

Most if not all the discussion these days seems to have pivoted towards how much someone enjoys the style of play etc. The results can't really be argued with as you said, but I think not finding the football itself super enjoyable is a very fair criticism that also extends beyond just Mikel, given his approach isn't necessarily unique.

I don't enjoy Mikel's brand of ball, same way I don't enjoy Pep's teams. It suffocates the game, by design. But it's obviously effective and I think separating "I don't enjoy this" and "this approach is bad/Mikel sucks" is important when discussing how happy you are with the current regime.
Not sure anybody can disagree with this. Saw a post on CIES about teams in Europe with the most direct football ranked from high, down to low, the most intricate and elaborate. Arsenal and City were right at the bottom. I’m convinced now that the Kroenke’s had a plan to copy City’s formula . . 1) poach Pep’s no2 who’d seen his tactics first hand 2) match their spending £ for £ and 3) be ruthless with players that either don’t get on with the manager or don’t fit in with his style. Over time it‘s beginning to come off.

I still believe Arteta is more manic than Pep and still think that when the pressure is really on he has the propensity to cause his players to panic. That could be the flaw in the plan.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
In fairness, with the exception of a couple of obvious over the top trolls, I think everyone at this point has acknowledged he's a good manager.

Most if not all the discussion these days seems to have pivoted towards how much someone enjoys the style of play etc. The results can't really be argued with as you said, but I think not finding the football itself super enjoyable is a very fair criticism that also extends beyond just Mikel, given his approach isn't necessarily unique.

I don't enjoy Mikel's brand of ball, same way I don't enjoy Pep's teams. It suffocates the game, by design. But it's obviously effective and I think separating "I don't enjoy this" and "this approach is bad/Mikel sucks" is important when discussing how happy you are with the current regime.


At core a lot of the criticisms about Arteta aren't really about him as an individual, it's more frustration / boredom at the state of the modern game, I feel.

Generally this season the football we've played is to be respected rather than really enjoyed, with the odd exception like Wednesday. I wouldn't argue that.

Personally I'm not overly bothered as long as the results are there, I can see why others feel differently though.

It probably sounds a bit entitled saying this to a West Ham fan but it's been 20 years since we've won the PL, that's far too long. Footballs not synchronised swimming you don't get additional points for style or flair, we've just got to get a PL title and / or CL title under our belt in the next couple of years.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
It probably sounds a bit entitled saying this to a West Ham fan but it's been 20 years since we've won the PL, that's far too long. Footballs not synchronised swimming you don't get additional points for style or flair, we've just got to get a PL title and / or CL title under our belt in the next couple of years.

Nah, it's the same for any club. Moyes was liked here for the most part when we were pushing for top 4 and doing well in Europe, despite the football being passable at best from an entertainment standpoint. Once cracks started to show, the criticism became much bigger than you'd expect because of just how poor the football was to watch. It would've been much easier to stomach bad results if we were playing entertaining football but getting unlucky.

Your point about criticism of Arteta often being more of a criticism of the modern game is spot on though. All you have to do is look at the over the top praise Ange was getting at Sp**s - the pundits won't make broad statements about the product being boring, because they're hired to promote it, but their reaction to someone throwing caution to the wind spoke volumes about their feelings IMO.

It's not even exclusive to football. Modern statistical analysis of sports tend to all point to the same thing, meaning you end up with low risk/medium reward over high risk/high reward again and again. There's too much money involved to not follow the data.
 

GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
Not sure anybody can disagree with this. Saw a post on CIES about teams in Europe with the most direct football ranked from high, down to low, the most intricate and elaborate. Arsenal and City were right at the bottom. I’m convinced now that the Kroenke’s had a plan to copy City’s formula . . 1) poach Pep’s no2 who’d seen his tactics first hand 2) match their spending £ for £ and 3) be ruthless with players that either don’t get on with the manager or don’t fit in with his style. Over time it‘s beginning to come off.

I still believe Arteta is more manic than Pep and still think that when the pressure is really on he has the propensity to cause his players to panic. That could be the flaw in the plan.
I think that will mellow a wee bit over time. The biggest change for us seems to be in the mentality of the owner. Arteta has been backed to the hilt, and we've invested heavily in the squad. We would have been in a completely different place had that not been the case.

That is football these days. You need to invest continuously in the squad to be competitive, and hopefully spend wisely....

I said a bit flippantly that I could see Arteta being our manager for a decade, but if you look at how Arsenal tend to stick with managers, I'd not be surprised if it turns out that way.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
I still believe Arteta is more manic than Pep and still think that when the pressure is really on he has the propensity to cause his players to panic. That could be the flaw in the plan.

Agree with this, but it's probably something he can work on improving given how young and relatively new to the job he still is. Probably comes down to him getting more comfortable and experienced in the role, trusting the players more rather than feeling he has to micromanage everything etc.

There's no guarantee of him improving of course but I still think it's worth remembering he's like what, 11 years younger than Pep?
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
It probably sounds a bit entitled saying this to a West Ham fan but it's been 20 years since we've won the PL, that's far too long. Footballs not synchronised swimming you don't get additional points for style or flair, we've just got to get a PL title and / or CL title under our belt in the next couple of years.
For some time there’s been 3 tiers of spending in the prem.
1 Elite . . City, Chelsea and United and between them they’ve won 25 of the prem seasons.
2 High . . Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham they’ve won 4.
3 Med/Low . . All the rest have won once in a fluke Leicester year.

Of the high spending clubs Liverpool have won once, Tottenham never and Arsenal 3 times. We are already well over our average for a non elite club. To say 20 years is too long for a club in this category to have not won the league is clearly wrong bro. Our fans never understood this.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
Set the team up well, kept Zinchenko too long.

Glad we finally got some of the Arsenal of last season that scored early and controled the game.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
This match was what many of us were asking for. Start hot, get 2-0 up and then control the match from there and conserve energy.

It was a 3-0 performance that turned into a 2-1 due to a bit of poor finishing and a really bad error from Zinchenko.

Feel a bit for Saliba, Rice, Gabriel, Tomi etc as they deserved a clean sheet really.

Christmas fixtures will be thick and fast, we've got to conserve some energy for it. We've basically only played 90 minutes at full tilt over the Lens and Wolves matches and won both. That's good news.
 

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