Iwobeast
Established Member
Country: Netherlands
Player:Ødegaard
There’s a lot of criticism of Arteta in that pod, did we listen to the same thing? lol
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Mikel Arteta: Working Jovertime
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Country: Netherlands
Player:Ødegaard
There’s a lot of criticism of Arteta in that pod, did we listen to the same thing? lol
Iwobeast
Established Member
Country: Netherlands
Player:Ødegaard
Forgot about Bhavs lol, did they kick him out?
Country: South Africa
Nah he decided to leave on his own.
He isnt built for such analysis, he is more a stats and twitter talking points guy. I think Bhavs should at least have a segment on the channel to touch on those things.
Macho
Thinks he's better than Havertz.
Country: England
Why Arsenal must be wary of giving Mikel Arteta too much power
North London's powerbrokers should heed the lesson of Liverpool, where Jurgen Klopp became dominant, in the wake of Edu's exit
www.nytimes.com
By Simon Hughes
1h ago
When Fenway Sports Group met Jurgen Klopp for the first time before his appointment as Liverpool’s manager in 2015, what its president, Mike Gordon, really wanted to know was whether he and the German, along with the club’s would-be sporting director Michael Edwards, were comfortable enough in their own skins to fight each other’s views, albeit in a constructive way.
Liverpool’s previous manager, Brendan Rodgers, had grumbled about lots of issues privately and then complained later, with Gordon concluding he should have intercepted such feelings before they mushroomed, undermining his own authority. Gordon would tell Klopp that speaking his mind and disagreeing with colleagues wasn’t just allowed — it was required.
It is an anecdote that should prompt some reflection at Arsenal in the wake of Edu’s abrupt departure as sporting director which has, by common consent, left manager Mikel Arteta as the dominant figure in the club’s football structure. While nobody is doubting the Spaniard’s coaching or motivational acumen, it is not necessarily to anyone’s benefit for that situation to persist in the long term.
Events on Merseyside prove as much. For five years, the culture of mutual challenge established by Gordon at Liverpool worked beautifully: the team won every major trophy that mattered, including a first league title in 30 years, and, by 2022, had reached three Champions League finals.
This, it must be stressed, would have been impossible without Klopp’s strength of character. He made Edwards’ job easier because he was so clear about what he wanted, yet Edwards helped create the economic environment that made it possible for Klopp to bring in era-defining record signings, mainly through player sales. In between both of them was Gordon, who acted as a buffer, shielding the pair from some of their less helpful instincts.
Michael Edwards (left), Jurgen Klopp and Mike Gordon formed a formidable team (John Powell/Liverpool FC via Getty Images)
The dynamic meant that rival clubs sought their own Klopp, but also wanted another Edwards and even a Gordon. The problems only began when Liverpool had to let go of players Klopp wanted to keep. Initially, Edwards was backed by Gordon, who decided Georginio Wijnaldum’s wage demands were not worth meeting. Subsequently, Edwards started to see Klopp getting his own way. The age of collaboration was over and the last three or four seasons of Klopp’s reign, with Edwards disappearing from view, was emphatically a manager-led operation.
In terms of trophies, the team was less successful during this period, with some spectacular near-misses rubbing up against campaigns where the team underperformed, to the extent that they even dropped out of the Champions League entirely for one year.
FSG responded to that development by allowing Klopp to appoint his own sporting director after Edwards’ successor, Julian Ward, announced his intention to walk out less than a year into the job in the summer of 2023.
Klopp’s chosen man, Jorg Schmadtke, had a sole focus of getting transfers done. The significant matter of handling existing contracts was allowed to slide and next summer, Mohamed Salah, Virgil van Dijk and Trent Alexander-Arnold are all free agents. Losing these players at different moments for good fees would be hard to take; for them all to depart at the same time, and for free, would be indefensible, especially when FSG operates on a real system of profit and loss.
Liverpool are currently bobbing away nicely at the top of the Premier League under Arne Slot, but will he be able to stay there in the long term without players who are continuing to perform at the highest level and regularly deciding big games?
Somewhere along the line, FSG took their eye off the ball — a scenario that would have been unthinkable when Klopp, Edwards and Gordon worked in tandem between 2015 and 2020, and others were trying to copy them.
One of those clubs was Arsenal, whose revival arguably began in the summer of 2019 when they appointed Edu — who had his own gilded history at the club as an ‘Invincible’ — as sporting director. Soon, the Brazilian was heavily involved in the hiring of the team’s new manager.
Arteta was something of a gamble: a highly regarded coach from his time at Manchester City working with Pep Guardiola, but unproven as a No 1. But the move has paid off — under Arteta and Edu’s guidance, Arsenal have become relevant again. They may not have been as successful in terms of trophies as Liverpool in the same time frame under Klopp, Edwards and Gordon, but no team has come closer to challenging Manchester City’s hegemony in the last two seasons and many expected them to go one better this term.
Mikel Arteta has made Arsenal title contenders (Julian Finney/Getty Images)
Edu’s departure from Arsenal potentially destabilises that progress. He is a different character to Edwards, who was punchy, and would confront Klopp if he saw a problem. Liverpool’s former manager was not exactly slow in coming forward either — like Arteta. As Amy Lawrence suggested in her article on The Athletic this morning, Edu’s people skills offered a good balance to Arteta’s impulsive reactions. He was also not shy to offer his own opinions.
Arsenal’s owners would be wise to learn from what happened at Liverpool, where so much responsibility falling in one place — Klopp — ended up draining him, arguably contributing towards his own departure. Arteta is a younger man than Klopp, of course, and has spent far less time in the managerial meatgrinder. He might have more energy in his reserves, but he also has far less experience, and ultimately is yet to prove he can turn all his undoubted promise definitively into a winning culture.
Even if he had, like Klopp, it would be unwise to leave him alone. There is a yearning in football for yesteryear, when the most successful clubs — think Manchester United under Sir Alex Ferguson or Arsenal themselves under Arsène Wenger — tended to be dictatorships where managers decided everything from travel arrangements to staffing levels.
There are so many games and departments now, that this is impossible. It is why figures like Edu and Edwards, as well as their underlings, are not just useful accessories but fundamental to a club’s success.
Mikel impulsive? Nooooooooo Impossible.
Farzad
Whistleblower rights activist & PhD in Karenology
Country: USA
Player:Havertz
They all want access to players and club so they p.ss out and toe the corporate line that Spanish Lasso is the greatest and unluckiest manager ever. That is why AM is blessed to have their own whistleblower and truth teller, namely me; to give them the undistilled truth. In this w.nker propaganda fueled age I am the only one who will tell you the truth on any topic, including Basque Lasso
BBF
Established Member
Country: England
Why Arsenal must be wary of giving Mikel Arteta too much power
North London's powerbrokers should heed the lesson of Liverpool, where Jurgen Klopp became dominant, in the wake of Edu's exit
View attachment 29198
By Simon Hughes
1h ago
When Fenway Sports Group met Jurgen Klopp for the first time before his appointment as Liverpool’s manager in 2015, what its president, Mike Gordon, really wanted to know was whether he and the German, along with the club’s would-be sporting director Michael Edwards, were comfortable enough in their own skins to fight each other’s views, albeit in a constructive way.
Liverpool’s previous manager, Brendan Rodgers, had grumbled about lots of issues privately and then complained later, with Gordon concluding he should have intercepted such feelings before they mushroomed, undermining his own authority. Gordon would tell Klopp that speaking his mind and disagreeing with colleagues wasn’t just allowed — it was required.
It is an anecdote that should prompt some reflection at Arsenal in the wake of Edu’s abrupt departure as sporting director which has, by common consent, left manager Mikel Arteta as the dominant figure in the club’s football structure. While nobody is doubting the Spaniard’s coaching or motivational acumen, it is not necessarily to anyone’s benefit for that situation to persist in the long term.
Events on Merseyside prove as much. For five years, the culture of mutual challenge established by Gordon at Liverpool worked beautifully: the team won every major trophy that mattered, including a first league title in 30 years, and, by 2022, had reached three Champions League finals.
This, it must be stressed, would have been impossible without Klopp’s strength of character. He made Edwards’ job easier because he was so clear about what he wanted, yet Edwards helped create the economic environment that made it possible for Klopp to bring in era-defining record signings, mainly through player sales. In between both of them was Gordon, who acted as a buffer, shielding the pair from some of their less helpful instincts.
Michael Edwards (left), Jurgen Klopp and Mike Gordon formed a formidable team (John Powell/Liverpool FC via Getty Images)
The dynamic meant that rival clubs sought their own Klopp, but also wanted another Edwards and even a Gordon. The problems only began when Liverpool had to let go of players Klopp wanted to keep. Initially, Edwards was backed by Gordon, who decided Georginio Wijnaldum’s wage demands were not worth meeting. Subsequently, Edwards started to see Klopp getting his own way. The age of collaboration was over and the last three or four seasons of Klopp’s reign, with Edwards disappearing from view, was emphatically a manager-led operation.
In terms of trophies, the team was less successful during this period, with some spectacular near-misses rubbing up against campaigns where the team underperformed, to the extent that they even dropped out of the Champions League entirely for one year.
FSG responded to that development by allowing Klopp to appoint his own sporting director after Edwards’ successor, Julian Ward, announced his intention to walk out less than a year into the job in the summer of 2023.
Klopp’s chosen man, Jorg Schmadtke, had a sole focus of getting transfers done. The significant matter of handling existing contracts was allowed to slide and next summer, Mohamed Salah, Virgil van Dijk and Trent Alexander-Arnold are all free agents. Losing these players at different moments for good fees would be hard to take; for them all to depart at the same time, and for free, would be indefensible, especially when FSG operates on a real system of profit and loss.
Liverpool are currently bobbing away nicely at the top of the Premier League under Arne Slot, but will he be able to stay there in the long term without players who are continuing to perform at the highest level and regularly deciding big games?
Somewhere along the line, FSG took their eye off the ball — a scenario that would have been unthinkable when Klopp, Edwards and Gordon worked in tandem between 2015 and 2020, and others were trying to copy them.
One of those clubs was Arsenal, whose revival arguably began in the summer of 2019 when they appointed Edu — who had his own gilded history at the club as an ‘Invincible’ — as sporting director. Soon, the Brazilian was heavily involved in the hiring of the team’s new manager.
Arteta was something of a gamble: a highly regarded coach from his time at Manchester City working with Pep Guardiola, but unproven as a No 1. But the move has paid off — under Arteta and Edu’s guidance, Arsenal have become relevant again. They may not have been as successful in terms of trophies as Liverpool in the same time frame under Klopp, Edwards and Gordon, but no team has come closer to challenging Manchester City’s hegemony in the last two seasons and many expected them to go one better this term.
Mikel Arteta has made Arsenal title contenders (Julian Finney/Getty Images)
Edu’s departure from Arsenal potentially destabilises that progress. He is a different character to Edwards, who was punchy, and would confront Klopp if he saw a problem. Liverpool’s former manager was not exactly slow in coming forward either — like Arteta. As Amy Lawrence suggested in her article on The Athletic this morning, Edu’s people skills offered a good balance to Arteta’s impulsive reactions. He was also not shy to offer his own opinions.
Arsenal’s owners would be wise to learn from what happened at Liverpool, where so much responsibility falling in one place — Klopp — ended up draining him, arguably contributing towards his own departure. Arteta is a younger man than Klopp, of course, and has spent far less time in the managerial meatgrinder. He might have more energy in his reserves, but he also has far less experience, and ultimately is yet to prove he can turn all his undoubted promise definitively into a winning culture.
Even if he had, like Klopp, it would be unwise to leave him alone. There is a yearning in football for yesteryear, when the most successful clubs — think Manchester United under Sir Alex Ferguson or Arsenal themselves under Arsène Wenger — tended to be dictatorships where managers decided everything from travel arrangements to staffing levels.
There are so many games and departments now, that this is impossible. It is why figures like Edu and Edwards, as well as their underlings, are not just useful accessories but fundamental to a club’s success.
View attachment 29199
Mikel impulsive? Nooooooooo Impossible.
Why does it come across as if Edu was Mick's handler
Actually curious to see what happens if this was a reserved Arteta. How many more keepers can we get in?
Macho
Thinks he's better than Havertz.
Country: England
Why does it come across as Edu was Mick's handler
Actually curious to see what happens if this was a reserved Arteta.
I just think Edu was good cop to Arteta's bad cop personally and had to clean up his miss from time to time.
We saw it in All or Nothing with the Arteta and Auba fall out and how stressed Edu was.
jones
Captain Serious
I cussed Arteta out on AM before you ever registered uncle. This isn't about whistleblowers anyway this is about the truth that needs speaking out namely Arteta is the devil himself and will end us all if he's not stopped.
Tir Na Nog
Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
Country: Ireland
Man just stick to guessing injuries bro.
In 2012 Mourinho's Real scored 121 goals in La Liga for starters.
Macho
Thinks he's better than Havertz.
Country: England
Man just stick to guessing injuries bro.
In 2012 Mourinho's Real scored 121 goals in La Liga for starters.
I’m pretty sure Raj is one of the A-M mods at this point.
jones
Captain Serious
@Rex Stone did you see this dickheads twitter handle bro? Is he trying to say his patients perform like on 2CB but even higher? Or is bro saying free the Northside Newham demon CB??
Man just stick to guessing injuries bro.
In 2012 Mourinho's Real scored 121 goals in La Liga for starters.
avenellroad
John Radford’s son
Why are online Arsenal fans such cockwombles? What’s wrong with what Carragher said anyway. He’s right… Arteta isn’t exactly Wenger is he.
Man just stick to guessing injuries bro.
In 2012 Mourinho's Real scored 121 goals in La Liga for starters.
Rex Stone
I am a man and I’m relentless
Country: Wales
Player:Nwaneri
jones
Captain Serious
For him it's more "Head down, keep sucking, make Arteta hard again"
Bradpiff
Active Member
Man CB had some hits, then he went on a mad one shame
Riou
Mikel… Is this real?
Country: Northern Ireland
Riou
Mikel… Is this real?
Country: Northern Ireland
Think this could low-key be a big loss for Mikel, not sure how well they got on now, but Edu seemed to balance him out well...think anyone as young as Arteta holding as much power as he seemingly does now is not a good thing, feel Edu was maybe the only one on the board who would at least raise concerns to him (the Auba situation on the doc, this transfer window)
Missing out on the league last season, losing a good contrast to him on the board and the way this season has started...if we don't turn this around soon, Arteta's rep could be seen very differently next summer.
Missing out on the league last season, losing a good contrast to him on the board and the way this season has started...if we don't turn this around soon, Arteta's rep could be seen very differently next summer.
Rasmi
Calls It Like It Isn't
Country: England
Absolutely. Arteta talks good game. But I really doubt he’s anywhere near as intelligent and as experienced in life as wenger and we saw the toll it took on him when he had to juggle too much. He’s also proven to be an over thinker
Tourbillion
Angry & Miserable
Who, Edu?
Riou
Mikel… Is this real?
Country: Northern Ireland
Yeah.
One normal height, other a midget...one won the league at Arsenal, one hasn't....one a bit of a psycho, the other just looking for a nice place to BBQ.
You always need a good mix
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