Mikel Starteta Wars: Phase IV - A New Cope

[db10_therza]

The sample size is massive so it ends up being fairly accurate.

There’s also post-shot-xG/xGoT which does take into account the quality of the finish.

I hear all this.

But I’m still saying that goal was not a 3-5% chance. That’s a glitch in the matrix right there.

 

[Bagels]

I hear all this.

But I’m still saying that goal was not a 3-5% chance. That’s a glitch in the matrix right there.

My impression at the time (I have not rewatched it) was that it was a fantastic finish from Jimenez that had to be placed perfectly, and was. Awkward angle and range.

 

[Jasard]

I hear all this.

But I’m still saying that goal was not a 3-5% chance. That’s a glitch in the matrix right there.

I wonder how much our finishing impacts calculations, like if its based on the average they probably have to remove out outliers as they are so extremely ****.

 

[Trilly]

I hear all this.

But I’m still saying that goal was not a 3-5% chance. That’s a glitch in the matrix right there.

Depends on the model. If it’s a fairly simply one that doesn’t take into account defenders in the vicinity then I can easily seeing that being a 1/20 chance.

A lot of players are pulling that wide to start, then of the players who do get it on target it’s getting saved in most cases due to keepers getting their angles right. Only a few are going to get it hitting the side netting right by the post. That’s an elite finish.

I mean I have no confidence in anybody in our team scoring from that position so there you go.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Depends on the model. If it’s a fairly simply one that doesn’t take into account defenders in the vicinity then I can easily seeing that being a 1/20 chance.

A lot of players are pulling that wide to start, then of the players who do get it on target it’s getting saved in most cases due to keepers getting their angles right. Only a few are going to get it hitting the side netting right by the post. That’s an elite finish.

I mean I have no confidence in anybody in our team scoring from that position so there you go.

Only Saka, maybe Trossard.

 

[Rasmi]

Only Saka, maybe Trossard.

Maybe Jesus if there is no keeper? Nah he would still try to come inside and have the ball nicked

 

[HattoriHanzo]

There was a big debate on here about the process/culture stuff and how important it is or isn’t.

It was dismissed as just being anti-Arteta propaganda but I still stand by it just being PR. Nobody really cares or talks about that stuff until you’re winning stuff and doing documentaries ten years later.

We were the first club to make a big deal about the process and culture with nothing to show for it. Fast forward a couple years and now even we aren’t talking about the process/culture anymore but have switched to needing ‘X-factor’.

Funny that.

It was important at beginning, let's say until he sent Auba to Barcelona.
Don't forget that Emery before him was almost laughing stock in that dressing room.
That dressing room was filled with overpaid non-performing players (some of them primadonnas sleeping on laurels, like Özil).
Then he arrived, complete rookie, and he head to establish his authority.
He had to clean this dressing room.

But that was then, now he has different set of problems.
Now his obsession with control is stifling our attack.

 

[Trilly]

Only Saka, maybe Trossard.

As much as Saka’s shooting and finishing has improved I don’t see this kind of finish in his locker.

It’s a proper strikers finish and one I’d only expect players who play centrally or non-inverted to have in their locker. Good call on Trossard though.

 

[El Duderino]

It was dismissed as just being anti-Arteta propaganda but I still stand by it just being PR.

Winning is the only culture/mentality that matters at the very top end. It gives you that extra edge when you need to pull something out of the bag, the X factor everyone (me included) keep banging on about.

Mikel's process doesn't matter, it's all LinkedIn fluff.

It wasn't why he succeeded at Arsenal. He turned it around because he's good at getting buy in from players and the club, drills the team very well and is also very tactically astute when he doesn't get in his own way.

The question is, does he want or, can he handle winners that are not in the Saka boy scout mold? Guys like Alexis, Thierry, etc., are not easy to manage at times, but they win you games.

We need more of that.

 

[shoot for the top]

What this got to do with initial debate?
To which I was responding.

Hint:
It wasn't about whether our attacking tactics is good.

Do you think after 5 years, we should be attacking better?

 

[boonthegoon]

Massively getting impacted by injuries. Still keeping us in the title race (barely though). Let's hope the injuries let up soon

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Deserves an extra year on his contract for putting up with this season. Just pay him this year but don't start the clock til next season.

Hell, throw on an extra year with a raise too. It's Christmas after all.

 

[db10_therza]

Winning is the only culture/mentality that matters at the very top end. It gives you that extra edge when you need to pull something out of the bag, the X factor everyone (me included) keep banging on about.

Mikel's process doesn't matter, it's all LinkedIn fluff.

It wasn't why he succeeded at Arsenal. He turned it around because he's good at getting buy in from players and the club, drills the team very well and is also very tactically astute when he doesn't get in his own way.

The question is, does he want or, can he handle winners that are not in the Saka boy scout mold? Guys like Alexis, Thierry, etc., are not easy to manage at times, but they win you games.

We need more of that.

I think you’re underplaying some of the benefits of culture tbh. You don’t get a whole team of players pressing and tracking back without it, almost by definition. That’s IS the culture. I also think you’re mistakenly saying that the culture change was the entirety of the process - I think the latter included playing style and personnel acquisitions.

Agree 100% on the rest of it. He needs to be comfortable with real characters now that the base has been built or we won’t win ****.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

I’ve lost faith in xG.

0.03 might be probability if you put in a fan from the stands through on goal but not for a professional footballer there. Ok awkward angle but 1on1 with keeper.

Bundesliga gives you immediately on the screen after every goal percentage that shot will be goal.
So you can immediately see what was probability that shot would result with goal.

 

[Trilly]

You don’t get a whole team of players pressing and tracking back without it, almost by definition.

Is that not just listening to your managers instructions?

 

[db10_therza]

Is that not just listening to your managers instructions?

Yes.

The players need to listen to their managers instruction in unison, down to a T. That IS the culture.

I’m not even saying that’s a good thing by the way, I’m a believer in having at least one player that goes off script. But that is what I understand culture to be.

It’s just a buzzword but what it means and represents can be impactful. I’ve worked at places with great culture and **** culture and the difference on your productivity is massive.

 

[El Realista]

You think that Arteta (and other managers) don't modify their tactics from season to season?
You think that Arsenal tactics from season 2020/21 is the same as this season?
Every summer Arsenal buys new players, you think that they shouldn't learn tactics in new club?
And you think that old players shouldn't learn how to gel with new players?

I agree with you, every season is worse. The boringness is growing. We actually have two tactics, one is give the ball to Saka so he cut inside and cross the ball to the LW/LCM zone in the box and get some corners to win the game meanwhile we just keep possession to maintain opposition running behind the ball. In other words our possessions are always the same and poorly productive in the middle and the LW.

 

[Batman]

Yes.

The players need to listen to their managers instruction in unison, down to a T. That IS the culture.

I’m not even saying that’s a good thing by the way, I’m a believer in having at least one player that goes off script. But that is what I understand culture to be.

It’s just a buzzword but what it means and represents can be impactful. I’ve worked at places with great culture and **** culture and the difference on your productivity is massive.

I agree. There was an interview with Saka recently where he basically said that he doesn't necessarily like all the tracking back that he does (as he would prefer to expend all of his energy on attacking output) but he knows that it benefits the team and the team are bought into the manager's view of doing for the collective.

I think that whatever problems the team has in terms of the attack being stunted and not quite being able to get big trophies over the line, Arteta absolutely has all of them pulling for the collective and connected to the supporters in a way that was not the case for a long time prior.

It's not as tangible as a trophy but it's not a guarantee that someone else would be able to replicate that cohesion let alone bring silverware. I think the hope has to be that the cohesion can keep everyone pulling together as the football continues to evolve and the personnel continue to be refined.

There are no guarantees, but we could easily get someone else in and go back to square one on the cohesion and connection between the club and supporters and that would be a bigger issue than being on the precipice of winning but just a bit short.

 

[A_G]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1866567845997580550

Spot on from the

 

[Trilly]

Culture Champions 24/25

Warra trophy