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Moises Caicedo

Would you meet the £80m asking price?


  • Total voters
    233
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Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Yeah now I get this reset comment from Arteta and Edu. They're getting Rice and Caicedo to close the circle with a proper WM formation some 100 years after Chapman revolutionized the game. Love to see it :drool:

Martinelli - Jesus - Saka
Rice - Øde
Zinny - Caicedo
Gabriel - Saliba - White
Ramsdale​
So basically 80% of our play will remain Ødegaard and Saka running it from the right wing. The problem with pushing Ødegaard to the right means our play will remain lopsided and there will be serious questions about Rice being a flop if your 100 million midfielder is an afterthought like xhaka was this season

Xhaka had the luxury of playing high this season with no expectations of being creative. Every time we had a game we struggled in it was Ødegaard being called out for being invincible. And what happens if Ødegaard gets injured? A midfield of Partey caicedo and Rice? God is that an ugly midfield
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
So basically 80% of our play will remain Ødegaard and Saka running it from the right wing. The problem with pushing Ødegaard to the right means our play will remain lopsided and there will be serious questions about Rice being a flop if your 100 million midfielder is an afterthought like xhaka was this season

Xhaka had the luxury of playing high this season with no expectations of being creative. Every time we had a game we struggled in it was Ødegaard being called out for being invincible. And what happens if Ødegaard gets injured? A midfield of Partey caicedo and Rice? God is that an ugly midfield

How does it remain lopsided when Zinchenko has even more license to push up into the left attacking halfspace? Or have you forgotten our first goal scored against United at the Emirates which originated from.... wait for it...

Look at that formation as a defensive base which allows our front 5 to combine and rotate without much trouble.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
How does it remain lopsided when Zinchenko has even more license to push up into the left attacking halfspace?

Or have you forgotten our first goal scored against United at the Emirates?
You telling me our play this season hasn’t been a lot more on saka/Ødegaard combination on the right?
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
You telling me our play this season hasn’t been a lot more on saka/Ødegaard combination on the right?

Of course it has been lopsided, but you cant just assume that it remains that way. Especially looking at how we could look from a defensive point of view, and what that means for our attacking players.

Im suggesting, that a back 5, cover more ground in defense, and allow us to hold the ball and stay pushed up more. This allows more freedom to our front 5. Hence the chance for a more balanced attack.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Of course it has been lopsided, but you cant just assume that it remains that way. Especially looking at how we could look from a defensive point of view, and what that means for our attacking players.
Same team and tactics this season. Swap xhaka for rice and I don’t see one bit in our general play. Rice is not a creator, he is not a high level technician who is gonna beat players to create openings like Bernardo silva. So against compact teams he will do exactly what xhaka does move the ball on

Now put him as a 6 in our team with his running power, interception and reading of the game defensively he would make us better defensively and we wouldn’t be so vulnerable on counters

You basically arguing spend 100 million on a midfielder and play him in a position that negates his main strengths.
 

Kuroske

Active Member
You telling me our play this season hasn’t been a lot more on saka/Ødegaard combination on the right?
Isnt it normal having one dominant side when you have world class talents? Messi/Alves, Messi/Alba, Oshimen/Kvaratskhelia, Benzema/Vinicius. Whats wrong having that?
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
Same team and tactics this season. Swap xhaka for rice and I don’t see one bit in our general play. Rice is not a creator, he is not a high level technician who is gonna beat players to create openings like Bernardo silva. So against compact teams he will do exactly what xhaka does move the ball on

Now put him as a 6 in our team with his running power, interception and reading of the game defensively he would make us better defensively and we wouldn’t be so vulnerable on counters

You basically arguing spend 100 million on a midfielder and play him in a position that negates his main strengths.

But why are we pigeonholing our players into specific roles on the pitch and not looking at what they are able to do in different zones?

Did you see the goal West Ham scored from the penalty spot against us last month? How did that goal come about exactly? Ill give you a clue... TP5 was disposed in our defensive third by someone.

You need players who can fill multiple roles on the pitch to deal with the specific dynamics on the pitch, but more importantly be able to be fast and physical enough for the Premier League. Rice may not be as good in tight spaces, but Zinchenko is and Zinny can find himself in advanced positions more because of Rice.

At the same time Rice himself plays as an 8 and has the physicality, speed and intelligence to create high quality chances via the turnover ball in the final third for our midfield technicians to latch onto. Rice has the intelligence to move into wider spaces to allow Jesus to drop into the halfspace. Rice could even be an aerial option for the longer ball or lay the ball off into the box for the shot.

All this in addition to screening the defense in the middle of the park and be able to get back in time to recover the ball defensively.

Multiple functions, depending on the game state. Rice brings that. Caicedo brings that.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
But why are we pigeonholing our players into specific roles on the pitch and not looking at what they are able to do in different zones?

Did you see the goal West Ham scored from the penalty spot against us last month? How did that goal come about exactly? Ill give you a clue... TP5 was disposed in our defensive third by someone.

You need players who can fill multiple roles on the pitch to deal with the specific dynamics on the pitch, but more importantly be able to be fast and physical enough for the Premier League. Rice may not be as good in tight spaces, but Zinchenko is and Zinny can find himself in advanced positions more because of Rice.

At the same time Rice himself plays as an 8 and has the physicality, speed and intelligence to create high quality chances via the turnover ball in the final third for our midfield technicians to latch onto. All this in addition to screening the defense in the middle of the park.

Multiple functions, depending on the game state. Rice brings that. Caicedo brings that.
Did you see the goal we scored against West Ham at home? That was saka bullying rice of the ball

Partey trying to flick the ball over rice wouldn’t be big deal if Gabriel didn’t give the pen away. It wasn’t some sort of amazing play by rice. Every player could do that
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
Did you see the goal we scored against West Ham at home? That was saka bullying rice of the ball

Partey trying to flick the ball over rice wouldn’t be big deal if Gabriel didn’t give the pen away. It wasn’t some sort of amazing play by rice. Every player could do that

Alright bro, then lets agree to disagree then.
 

Blankety Blank

emoji merchant
We have the money too, Stan worth 12.5B our wage bill is reasonable. No brainer imo.
Still got ffp to deal with.
Everyone seems to be getting sizeable wage upgrades.
The new rules in place by 2025 means you can't be offering silly wages.
May also have impact on transfer fees.
Obvs depends on turnover but this could be the last season to push the boat out & go big?
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Sweden
So basically 80% of our play will remain Ødegaard and Saka running it from the right wing. The problem with pushing Ødegaard to the right means our play will remain lopsided and there will be serious questions about Rice being a flop if your 100 million midfielder is an afterthought like xhaka was this season

Xhaka had the luxury of playing high this season with no expectations of being creative. Every time we had a game we struggled in it was Ødegaard being called out for being invincible. And what happens if Ødegaard gets injured? A midfield of Partey caicedo and Rice? God is that an ugly midfield
Agree on the main point you're making. I actually had Zinchenko and Rice flipped at first but then edited as I see it as more likely lining up with a "regular" 4 back line and have Zinchenko invert.

Regarding Ødegaard he'll always play more to the right, it's how he's always played coming on to the scene as a RM in Norwegian league iirc.

But yeah it'd be tasty with for example Gündogan, or maybe Paqueta, as one of the advanced mids.

Martinelli - Jesus - Saka
Paqueta - Ødegaard
Rice - Caicedo
Gabriel - Saliba - White
Ramsdale​
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Agree on the main point you're making. I actually had Zinchenko and Rice flipped at first but then edited as I see it as more likely lining up with a "regular" 4 back line and have Zinchenko invert.

Regarding Ødegaard he'll always play more to the right, it's how he's always played coming on to the scene as a RM in Norwegian league iirc.

But yeah it'd be tasty with for example Gündogan, or maybe Paqueta, as one of the advanced mids.

Martinelli - Jesus - Saka
Paqueta - Ødegaard
Rice - Caicedo
Gabriel - Saliba - White
Ramsdale​
Is this caicedo as rb being the invert coming to midfield
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
So basically 80% of our play will remain Ødegaard and Saka running it from the right wing. The problem with pushing Ødegaard to the right means our play will remain lopsided and there will be serious questions about Rice being a flop if your 100 million midfielder is an afterthought like xhaka was this season

Xhaka had the luxury of playing high this season with no expectations of being creative. Every time we had a game we struggled in it was Ødegaard being called out for being invincible. And what happens if Ødegaard gets injured? A midfield of Partey caicedo and Rice? God is that an ugly midfield
That is why i prefer Kudus to buying both Rice and Caceido, honestly with Partey, Jorgi, and Xhaka on the outs we need 3 CMs 2 defensive and one an 8/10 combo guy that can get involved in attack
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Sweden
Is this caicedo as rb being the invert coming to midfield
Nah, this is the proper Chapman WM formation :drool: Given how fluid it is we'd adapt throughout the game and so from that perspective he'd definitely help with the right defensive channel as would Rice with the left one. But they'd be halfbacks by trade

But apart from that Caicedo inverting is an option, as is playing with only one of Rice/Caicedo and put Zinny as LB and invert him to halfback in possession, which would still allow a more creative player at left 8
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Nah, this is the proper Chapman WM formation :drool: Given how fluid it is we'd adapt throughout the game and so from that perspective he'd definitely help with the right defensive channel as would Rice with the left one. But they'd be halfbacks by trade

But apart from that Caicedo inverting is an option, as is playing with only one of Rice/Caicedo and put Zinny as LB and invert him to halfback in possession, which would still allow a more creative player at left 8
Tbh it could work. The problem comes when you play against teams who have wide men hugging the line. They gonna either drag the 3 defenders or your midfielders will have to go out all the way defending them

I’m a 4 at the back guy, them from there on set up however suit your remaining players. Just like to know where I have my defenders
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Sweden
Tbh it could work. The problem comes when you play against teams who have wide men hugging the line. They gonna either drag the 3 defenders or your midfielders will have to go out all the way defending them

I’m a 4 at the back guy, them from there on set up however suit your remaining players. Just like to know where I have my defenders
Yeah this wide men scenario I think is why City is inverting a CB in Stones instead (I guess it’s also about personnel).

Anyway, it lets them keep width with the two fullbacks as it’s shorter distance for a dm/halfback to track back and become a Centre back.

Having Rice and Caicedo would actually be very interesting with that scenario as they could alternate dropping down as CB’s if we’re bold (or stupid?) enough to persist with a 3223 formation when defending as well. The main issue with doing this with our current personnel is that we’d have Gabriel out wide and he’s THE player in our squad you’d want defending the box from crosses.

It’s a very, very interesting problem/challenge to set up a team tactically now that the WM formation is so clearly making it’s comeback
 
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